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Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.06.21 01:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I imagine that this thread won't last long being torn up by fanboys and mods however I too pay for this game. This gives me the same voice as the rest of you.
WHY THE NEW SITES SUCK
Please pardon the bluntness of the statement but in my experience if i do not lead with a blunt statement no one seems to care. I have lived in null-sec for several years now and have run many exploration and salvage sites. In comparison the new ones suck. There is too much chance in loss as well as lack of good products in these sites. I remember the first time i failed the mini-game twice and having the loot explode on me. At first i felt kind of bad because i thought i lost a lot of good loot. Then i thought well if they explode then there is a chance for a lot of good loot in the other ones. After running 6 sites i have decided it is better just to leave them alone all together. The mini-game is too hard for the quality and amount of loot you can acquire. I don't feel bad about watching the items explode anymore because chances are i didn't lose anything of value anyway.
WHY THIS DOES NOT FIT THE GAME PLAY
Eve is a game where most everything is taken care of by automated systems. There is no mini-game when building items. There is no mini-game when salvaging. There is no mini-game when shooting weapons or using other mods on your ship. So why is there a mini-game when using the analyzer mod? Has my ship lost the ability to crack the simple codes so now it has to bother the pilot? This whole mini-game system is a bad sign. I hope that CCP does not implement more of these for future mods and game play. I would hate to be in a large PVP fleet and not have my missiles launch because i can't seem to find the right circle to click on when playing the missile launching mini-game.
HOW TO FIX IT
When confronted with the statement "If something is not broken then don't fix it" CCP always replies with the same confused tone "Surely you jest". So i think that these fixes fit both CCP's demand to ruin what they had while still letting the game be enjoyable to play.
FIX 1
Remove the mini-game. Just doing this will improve the exploration sites to near enjoyable levels. If the sites needs challenges then add rats. Rats offer the chance for better loot, bounties, and the fact that you either need multiple ships to run a site or larger ships. If you need to make a site harder add stronger rats. If you need to make a site easier then add fewer rats. This fit is easy and has worked for 10 years.
FIX 2
Remove the confetti junk that flies off of the salvage container. I will admit that this process does bring the excitement of reaching for prizes as they fly around you. However, it is extremely annoying after the first time. By removing this and adding a random prize in a stable container players will have greater anticipation of what they will get verses jumping around trying to grab at prizes like a vagrant grabbing at money in the wind.
FIX 3
Reduce the spawn timer. Although players right now enjoy the fact that they can run these sites almost every 30 minutes their novelty will wear off. Players will not be dashing out of the station for something that will re-spawn in 30 minutes like they would for something that may spawn once a week. Especially if the sites only drop junk.
FIX 4 THE FINAL FIX
Increase the loot prize. By doing this you inspire people to want to run these sites. Granted everything in the new Exploration sites are usable in some way or another they are not valuable. I believe that the most valuable thing that i have received from these sites is 1 intact armor plate.
So in conclusion I believe that these new sites detract from the over all game play. I would expect something like this from a "play for free" MMO like world of tanks or Star trek online where they offer the game for free in hopes for some chance of redemption. I would hope that the Devs read this and see what they have done. Eve has never been a game of gimmicks but it is starting to become one. |
Edah Puss
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 02:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Holy mother of all that is good in this world....
That is one hell of a huge poast.
I cannot fathom the possibility of reading that entire novel you just wrote.
OMG.
Oh yeah, Features and Ideas forum is -------> thataway |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8494
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 02:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree with the OP wholeheartedly and couldn't have said it any better.
+1.
DMC |
Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 02:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Edah Puss wrote:Holy mother of all that is good in this world....
That is one hell of a huge poast.
I cannot fathom the possibility of reading that entire novel you just wrote.
OMG.
Oh yeah, Features and Ideas forum is -------> thataway
Thanks for the bump at least.
DMC, thank you for the support. |
Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh by the way i warped to one about an hour ago. It was the one with the monolith in it. The image it had was still the savager instead of the analyzer. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
673
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 10:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Exodus Lied wrote:confetti junk
A.k.a. "loot bukkake".
After trying this activity in low-sec as alternative to my carebear lifestyle I cannot get it: too few sites, low income (~10mil per hour for me), loot bukkake mechanics - what kind of person could think it may be fun and interesting and become a profession? ATM L4s are much more attractive than this. |
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 13:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soooo many of these posts, with soooo many people (granted, often a lot of the same faces) and yet Still not even a glimmer of acknowledgement from CCP that this all-singing all-dancing fuster-cluck of a new exploration expansion has taken some seriously wrong turns .......
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Philalexandros
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Exodus Lied wrote:confetti junk A.k.a. "loot bukkake"..
Hahaha...that's great. My own term for it is "spew job."
And I agree with OP as well.
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Goran Grafth
Astra Explorations
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also agree with OP. And what makes his post worth the time to read is that he offers suggestions to fix the problem, rather than just whine and complain about things. Kinda weird, in a good way. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1360
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 22:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ylariana wrote:Soooo many of these posts, with soooo many people (granted, often a lot of the same faces) and yet Still not even a glimmer of acknowledgement from CCP that this all-singing all-dancing fuster-cluck of a new exploration expansion has taken some seriously wrong turns .......
CCP put a lot of money and time into this little mini-game non-sense, and I doubt very seriously anything will change. I screwed around with it for a little while, and found it to be a complete waste of time. Exploration was a great solo profession before with some good pve pew and the occassional peeveepee pew, but now it's just a joke.
This is my personal opinion; I don't care about any comments for "get friends!" and other unrelated non-sense. Solo exploration has been effectively ended, and industry has taken a kick in the crotch. FW is still broken, mining has gotten more ganker-friendly... In the last year EveO has gotten more purdy, but I think the quality of the game has fallen off. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
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XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
327
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 10:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:Problem 1 - Removing the mini-game
Most poeple I know seem to love it. Its relaxing, fairly easy once you get the hang of it, rewards good skills (my T2 analyzers are finally useful) and still has a bit of chance to it (I've hit 5 restoration nodes + 5 suppressors in a single can once, it was terrible luck). It can also be done in something as simple as a cov ops or a nullified T3, damn near removing any risk at all and making it much more appealing for nerds to head to null sec to test the waters.
Quote:Problem 2 - Confetti junk
Yeah that stuff is dumb as ****. Like anyone else with half a brain I scan the can first to determine what containers to grab but that is still an awful loot mechanic.
Quote:Problem 3 - Spawn timer
Not really sure what you're referring to here.
Quote:Problem 4 - Increase loot prize
Hacking sites were never meant to be as appealing isk wise as combat sites, where the real juicy stuff is. You also have to remember that the npc risk is far reduced with these sites (removed for most, sleepers and gas sites are the exceptions), as is pvp risk. You can simply keep the cans at range and cloak up if someone comes in local or whatever. Risk vs. reward, etc.
It should also be noted that both relic and data sites have the potential to drop faction towers and tower modules. These items seem to have a fairly low drop rate and I imagine will continue to sell for decent prices. Something to look forward to for any hacking explorer. |
Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 13:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sketch, seeing that you are in TEST, i can assume that you too live or lived in null-sec and are familiar with the Providence/Catch region. I know this next statement might sound a little care bear-ish, however everything must be taken into consideration to determine the worth of the sites. While you are doing the mini-game it is easy to lose track of local, check intel channels... As a matter of fact unless you have all of your chat channels spread out a large red fleet could sneak up on you and you would never be the wiser until you find yourself sitting in a pod in a station somewhere. Even though this risk can be mitigated by using a cheap ship and maybe an empty clone it may not be worth the risk if all you get is one intact armor plate at most. With how easy this sites are to scan down it is almost worthless to run the new exploration sites.
I can't see that really being a factor in high-sec unless you are at war so i did not mention that in my first post.
Just on a personal note i find the mini-game to be rather gimmicky. The thrill of doing them will be quickly replaced with annoyance of having to play the dumb game every time you run one of the sites and would likely deter people from running the sites instead of drawing them to it.
Spawn timers refer to the length of time it takes a new site to pop up on scanners after completing an old site. In Providence we seem to get a new site about thirty minutes to an hour and a half after finishing on of the sites. It could be that we are just lucky, it is to early really to tell at this point.
I have never run a hacking site, only the relic sites. For consideration though that is all we have really had prior to the changes as well. I would much rather fight NPCs rather than play the mini-game. The mini-game is just way out of place when compared to the rest of the game. It would be ok to have when walking around in station and you want to get in someone's room where you only have your skills to assist you. In a ship, however, your modules should do all of the work. Imagine having to manage shield/armor mods while you are trying to manage your weapons and utility mods while you are fighting. The mini-game just doesn't fit in anywhere. |
Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 14:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
I tried to use my analyzer mod while cloaked and it said that the cloaking interfered with the way the mod worked. Kind of ironic considering that the mod really doesn't do anything. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1318
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 17:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Quote:Problem 1 - Removing the mini-game Most poeple I know seem to love it. Its relaxing, fairly easy once you get the hang of it, rewards good skills (my T2 analyzers are finally useful) and still has a bit of chance to it (I've hit 5 restoration nodes + 5 suppressors in a single can once, it was terrible luck). It can also be done in something as simple as a cov ops or a nullified T3, damn near removing any risk at all and making it much more appealing for nerds to head to null sec to test the waters.
Really? I've found it incredibly binary. With sufficient skills, either you have a map you can win or you don't. If you have a map you can win, you will. And either way it just sucks up your time. I'd put it up there as equally annoying as the loot spew.
XXSketchxx wrote:Quote:Problem 2 - Confetti junk Yeah that stuff is dumb as ****. Like anyone else with half a brain I scan the can first to determine what containers to grab but that is still an awful loot mechanic.
Yes. Yes it is.
I still find the issue of sites no longer despawning after hacking has started to be the biggest one though. Seriously, people are going to cherry pick sites. At least let them disappear on their own. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
193
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 22:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Really? I've found it incredibly binary. With sufficient skills, either you have a map you can win or you don't. If you have a map you can win, you will. And either way it just sucks up your time. I'd put it up there as equally annoying as the loot spew. Well the mini-game does have ALOT of potential to expand and become interesting. And the Devs already have this stuff planned out. Why they didn't implement it in the initial rollout and instead gave us this watered-down brain-dead crapfest, I have no idea. When it was released this on Sisi for testing, we pointed out to CCP in the strongest of terms that the minigame needed some work. They opted to ignore us. Go figure.
XXSketchxx wrote:Quote:Problem 2 - Confetti junk Yeah that stuff is dumb as ****. Like anyone else with half a brain I scan the can first to determine what containers to grab but that is still an awful loot mechanic. Yup. Except somebody in CCP got real attached to the idea for some bizarre reason. So it's gonna take a long while for them to realize that loot bukkake was a shiite idea. It might require the concept being expanded to wreck salvaging/looting in order for there to be enough outrage and negative feedback for them to get a clue. Granted it's not difficult to work around the spew once you figure the gimmick out. But it doesn't really add anything positive to the game. It's not like it can really be expanded on. Only thing that can be done is to add trinkets/goodies to the current "garbage cans" (Equipment & Scrap) so that we have to choose what to go after. But that's not much of an iteration on what we already got.
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Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
161
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 02:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can't believe I just read all that from OP just to find out all he's saying is "New system sucks balls, give us back the old system!" See, now wasn't that simpler and much, much, shorter? |
Exodus Lied
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 04:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Well the mini-game does have ALOT of potential to expand and become interesting. And the Devs already have this stuff planned out. Why they didn't implement it in the initial rollout and instead gave us this watered-down brain-dead crapfest, I have no idea. When it was released this on Sisi for testing, we pointed out to CCP in the strongest of terms that the minigame needed some work. They opted to ignore us. Go figure.
The problem is that the mini-game does not fit the flow of Eve. It doesn't even resemble any of the past game play experiences. Adding new content is not bad, adding new bad content is bad. The whole mini-game concept is a bad omen all together. Like i had said in my previous posts these mini-games are good for free to play games and cell phone games. Eve is a much better game than that. If they wanted to do something they should have made it skill related not luck related. It may be an elitist view but i think that eve players are better than the other MMORPG players out there. This is by far a harder game to play requiring more intelligence and more skill. The mini-games are a slap in the face saying that the Devs don't believe that statement is true and that they don't believe in the players. They think we are all dumb WoW players or something. We are better than that; we should demand better than that.
Reuben Johnson wrote:I can't believe I just read all that from OP just to find out all he's saying is "New system sucks balls, give us back the old system!" See, now wasn't that simpler and much, much, shorter?
Yes, but far less effective. To gripe with out offering solutions to the problem shows that you never really put any thought into the situation and invalidates your claims. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
193
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 12:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Exodus Lied wrote: The problem is that the mini-game does not fit the flow of Eve. It doesn't even resemble any of the past game play experiences. Adding new content is not bad, adding new bad content is bad. The whole mini-game concept is a bad omen all together. Like i had said in my previous posts these mini-games are good for free to play games and cell phone games. Eve is a much better game than that. If they wanted to do something they should have made it skill related not luck related. It may be an elitist view but i think that eve players are better than the other MMORPG players out there. This is by far a harder game to play requiring more intelligence and more skill. The mini-games are a slap in the face saying that the Devs don't believe that statement is true and that they don't believe in the players. They think we are all dumb WoW players or something. We are better than that; we should demand better than that. Ehhhh.... Think you might be doing the "fear of new things" there. Either that or you are not putting much effort into envisioning how it could be made better. It is indeed simplistic and stupid currently. I will agree with you whole-heartedly there. It's just "random clicking" (tbh there is a minute amount of strategy/common sense involved) until the core is revealed. It's pretty simplistic.
BUT.... There is much room for growth. Things that the Dev team has already said they want to add in. Like creating your own virus utilities and pre-loading them before starting a hacking attempt. More creative and adaptive anti-viruses to go against, etc. Perhaps better / more logical map layouts? Maybe players being able to set up their own systems on POSes that could be hacked? The mini-game has a ton of potential. Will CCP ever exploit that potential? Who knows. If we go by "old skool CCP" then it will be a few years before they ever touch it again. Though the Devs claim it will be re-iterated on rather quickly. Guess we'll find out in the next Odyssey update.
And yeah the skill setup is kinda broken - either you have the skills for T2 Analyzers and are awesome, or you don't and you suck. Changing it to +2 Virus Strength per Hack/Arch level, and lower the bonus of T2 to +5 would probably help. Maybe do the same for the ship bonuses.
Regardless you have to admit that the minigame is mildly more engaging than sitting there waiting for a module to cycle over and over again. Sure it's different from anything previously in EvE, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 13:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
The hacking game is just so much better than the click and wait rubbish you had before. I remember when I first started playing I thought that hacking sounded like it could be fun only to find you literally just click on a can then sit there for 40s, say, waiting for a normal loot window to open. If you want to talk about awful game mechanics then click and wait has got to be top of the list.
Whilst I like the mini-game addition I'm not fond of the loot spew. I'm mostly ambivalent now I carry a cargo scanner but definitely not a fan.
I think my biggest gripe, at the moment, is that data and relic sites are literally identical. They need to roll them into one site type or at least differentiate the sites and mini-games. However I think this will become a moot point since the only item that makes the sites worth running (at least in high sec) are the decryptors which will soon be worthless. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 15:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Exodus Lied wrote:confetti junk A.k.a. "loot bukkake". After trying this activity in low-sec as alternative to my carebear lifestyle I cannot get it: too few sites, low income (~10mil per hour for me), loot bukkake mechanics - what kind of person could think it may be fun and interesting and become a profession? ATM L4s are much more attractive than this.
I'm finding loads of these sites in low, mainly just through using map statisitics to figure out where people aren't so i can find untouched sites and run them safely. it's pretty good income if you can find a clump of them. some areas are just farmed to death though, i spent two hours trying to find sites in providence today. null may not be worth it unless you're going to go hole diving to get there and back. freelance space bum |
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 15:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Exodus Lied wrote:
HOW TO FIX IT
Stop doing it until the prices go back up?... |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 15:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Blue Absinthe wrote:I think my biggest gripe, at the moment, is that data and relic sites are literally identical. They need to roll them into one site type or at least differentiate the sites and mini-games. However I think this will become a moot point since the only item that makes the sites worth running (at least in high sec) are the decryptors which will soon be worthless.
yeah this is puzzling, as there was an opportunity to combine them or differentiate them more with the update. at least they got rid of the need for salvagers but it's just so redundant having two modules, rigs and skills which do pretty much the same thing. freelance space bum |
Zhen Arzi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 17:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
The only thing they need to fix is having the sites despawn after they have been cherry picked.
Nothing like wasting the time scanniing down a site only to find its been picked over and will never despawn until all cans are popped.
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Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 20:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zhen Arzi wrote:The only thing they need to fix is having the sites despawn after they have been cherry picked.
Nothing like wasting the time scanniing down a site only to find its been picked over and will never despawn until all cans are popped.
I believe this has been fixed.
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello again,
With today's Tranquility update we have released the fix for the sites not despawning correctly. Now, after any container within a site has been successfully hacked, a site despawn timer initiates.
There will still be the possibility that you encounter a site that has been 'cherry picked' but it should be a lot rarer than before. (You've just been unlucky enough to find a site that has just recently been run by another player)
As usual, please submit in-game bug reports if you find anything unusual about this side of exploration.
All the best, CCP RedDawn https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3251935#post3251935 |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8758
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 02:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Blue Absinthe wrote:The hacking game is just so much better than the click and wait rubbish you had before. I remember when I first started playing I thought that hacking sounded like it could be fun only to find you literally just click on a can then sit there for 40s, say, waiting for a normal loot window to open. If you want to talk about awful game mechanics then click and wait has got to be top of the list. So, you actually prefer the Click Fest Mini Hacking Game compared to the old system of clicking once and waiting for it to open?
The hacking window takes up a large portion of the screen and basically pulls your attention from your Overview, local chat as well as any on-grid action. It takes much longer now to complete the sites than before. Also chasing the loot spew after a successful hack is just another click fest, not to mention consumes even more time.
Also the loot drops are worse now than it was before the so called exploration expansion.
DMC |
Zhen Arzi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 03:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Texty wrote:Zhen Arzi wrote:The only thing they need to fix is having the sites despawn after they have been cherry picked.
Nothing like wasting the time scanniing down a site only to find its been picked over and will never despawn until all cans are popped.
I believe this has been fixed. CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello again,
With today's Tranquility update we have released the fix for the sites not despawning correctly. Now, after any container within a site has been successfully hacked, a site despawn timer initiates.
There will still be the possibility that you encounter a site that has been 'cherry picked' but it should be a lot rarer than before. (You've just been unlucky enough to find a site that has just recently been run by another player)
As usual, please submit in-game bug reports if you find anything unusual about this side of exploration.
All the best, CCP RedDawn https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3251935#post3251935
Then no more compaints for me then. Thank you for the info. |
Hyku P'tiboo
Interstellar Geographic Society
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 10:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the mini game in itself. I find it fun and entertaining. What bothers me is the fact that it takes my attention away from my overview and got me killed a few times.
I'm not a fan of the can spew and find it rather dumb but that's just me. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 12:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Also the loot drops are worse now than it was before the so called exploration expansion.
They're technically better; more stuff drops. Unfortunately, for the time being the "gold rush" nature of new sites/new mechanics is leading to oversupply and values getting screwed. In time things will balance out, at least for relic sites (capital rigs play a large role here). Data sites might need some adjustment.
They also gave us faction tower + module drops back. That right there makes it all worth it.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
DMC
Thanks for clearing that up. If only the devs would add the posters name and maybe even their character picture somewhere so we could see who is posting, then we wouldn't need to sign our posts
-Your best friend. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
680
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 13:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:So, you actually prefer the Click Fest Mini Hacking Game compared to the old system of clicking once and waiting for it to open?
I think the mini-game is better, it makes things more unpredictable, which i like. I also had to do some salvaging yesterday, which reminded me how awful the old hacking system was.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:The hacking window takes up a large portion of the screen and basically pulls your attention from your Overview, local chat as well as any on-grid action. It takes much longer now to complete the sites than before. Also chasing the loot spew after a successful hack is just another click fest, not to mention consumes even more time.
I play on a laptop, and i had to buy a bigger external display to be able to watch the overview and local chat at the same time while doing the mini-game, so i have to agree with the game window being needlessly large.
It would be nice to be able to resize the game window.
The sites do take longer, but i don't really find that to be a problem, probably because i like cherry picking the juice cans and leaving the junk for the next guy. Removing the site rats opened up the sites for smaller exploration frigates, which i think justify the longer time spend in the sites, now you can do all sites is relatively cheap ships.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Theminster
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 15:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1 on this, I to now hate exploration and its killed the game for me. |
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