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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
664
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Posted - 2013.06.24 06:04:00 -
[121] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:When you consider the difference between the incoming dps of a level 3 and a level 4, you get rewarded for surviving and killing the higher-tanking rats in level 4s GǪand is that twice as hard as an L3? Four times as hard? Eight times as hard? Or is it really just as easy, only with slightly more expensive equipment? It is a sliding scale based upon skill level. But you always seem to forget that many people aren't at all V's yet. You can fly a Mach rather quickly...and do 200 dps with only 24k ehp.
But here come the blah, blah, blah, not so hard to train up replies with no real numbers. So please, break it all down this time or don't bother replying. I know it is hard for critics to deal in facts, but let's try it this time. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Rain6636
Team Evil
604
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Posted - 2013.06.24 07:37:00 -
[122] - Quote
risk vs reward. enemies abound part 5 puts out 3000 omni dps if you fall behind waves, I'd say 60mil is appropriate when it takes a well-skilled battleship pilot to stay ahead of the waves consistently.
that mission in particular has timed waves, so if you have to warp out, you'll have the whole mission waiting for you when you get back. it would take a well coordinated RR gang to get a foothold in it after that point. Free Thanatos Raffle-Lottery? ...Thing? |
Yummy Chocolate
Biohazard.
879
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Posted - 2013.06.24 07:44:00 -
[123] - Quote
just seeing you talking about missions makes me feel bad. |
Rain6636
Team Evil
604
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Posted - 2013.06.24 08:01:00 -
[124] - Quote
alas, I speak the truth. this player lost two rigged ravens to the mission. Free Thanatos Raffle-Lottery? ...Thing? |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
181
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Posted - 2013.06.24 09:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.
Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.
Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.
Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour
I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.
16/60 8/30 4/15
round it up to say 5/15...
1/3
Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.
Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.
Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.
Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.
Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.
Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.
Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.
As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.
This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.
You need a slap. I bet you self-flagellate as well...
Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Shock
Interim Industries
7
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Posted - 2013.06.24 09:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Here's an idea to make low level missions viable again: standings degradation
Every week you lose somewhere between 1 and 10% standings per week (also the negative ones) depending on your skills and whether you are in a FW militia.
Then increase the standings boost from low level missions so these are the most efficient when grinding for corp standings (though FW still being the most efficient for faction standings). Because they keep their low ISK payout, low level missions are meant for newer players and for players seeking to quickly boost corp standings.
I think it would be balanced if you could get from zero to 9+ corp standings by doing about 10 hours of low level missions (less with better skills and equipment).
The standings bonus from high level mission is decreased to where doing several of them every day is required to counter the standing degradation (also depending on skills), so these missions are the ones done simply for the money.
I think this would be balanced where it would take 10 hours of level 4 missions to counter the weekly standings degradation at a 9+ level (less with better skills and equipment). The reward is already in the payout and shouldn't be in the standings boost.
CCP should also increase some of the NPC fees for corporation specific station services to make corp standings actually matter. Maybe even further restrict access in the LP store on standings as well. It would be good if this would be extended to NPC pirate factions as well.
The goal is to reward players that mind their standings (especially the ones that do low-level missions) over those that do not.
An additional major benefit is the less permanent effect of having tanked your standings through extensive mission running or FW, because over time they'll neutralize eventually (though it will take quite a while for them to neutralize from -10). I can imagine this is something that keeps many people from fully committing to FW.
I foresee many players protesting that they don't want to go and do missions just to keep their standings to a level where they get NPC benefits. I think however, that players, willing to put in some extra effort (and not simply to make L4 mission ISK) should be rewarded for it over the lazy people that don't and do all their industry and trading on alts they only log in for 10 minutes a day.
It would mean that putting effort and committing yourself as a player to a NPC corporation would actually grant a decent benefit (without killing off future options permanently). |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
310
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Posted - 2013.06.24 09:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
You hear such ridiculous numbers for level 4's. Most people don't blitz, don't use Officer gear, don't dual box, sometimes have to warp out, make a cup of tea, do whatever, and make nowhere near "60m an hour". It's just like most people aren't multiboxing 20 mack mining gangs, or doing 10/10's in a Titan.
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Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
34
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Posted - 2013.06.24 10:23:00 -
[128] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.
Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.
Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.
Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour
I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.
16/60 8/30 4/15
round it up to say 5/15...
1/3
Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.
Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.
Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.
Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.
Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.
Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.
Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.
As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.
This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.
If you are so bored with the game that all you can do is troll post ... maybe it time to say goodbye to eve. You should crawl out from under that bridge and enjoy some sunshine. See you in the winter with some constructive posts. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
670
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Posted - 2013.06.24 11:00:00 -
[129] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Rain6636 wrote:I have a screenshot somewhere... ah, here it is. made this in an hour of level 4s. even caught a suspect! Let me call BS on this since there are no mission that could of given you 2 stats implants in a single hour. There are also no proof of how long it took to get all of that. It could of taken you 7 years and it would look exactly the same in your orca hangar.
Some of the items displayed are not from missions, eg. probe launcher and probes, but the dread pirate mission can drop implants and while unlikely it's not impossible to get two in one hour, or one and a story line mission. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1031
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Posted - 2013.06.24 11:11:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The risks are far too high, not too low. In L4s?! LMAO The only way for the risks to be lower would be if the missions auto-completed themselves when you clicked the GÇ£acceptGÇ¥ button. The risk in L4s is zero. The only way to create some is to have no tank at all, but that's your decision GÇö not something the missions themselves are designed around.
*Cough* noobs *cough* |
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1204
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Posted - 2013.06.24 11:47:00 -
[131] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Replying in a stealth "nerf hi-sec" thread.
+1
Always the same too. Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse CEO Sanctuary Pact Alliance --áSanctuary Pact |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
526
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:21:00 -
[132] - Quote
There is this old mantra... where... you get rewarded for working hard for something. It takes time from skill training and standings to get to level 4s, and they are more difficult to do than level 3s. So for investing the time, isk, and standings to do level 4 missions means you get rewarded with better pay outs. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Erok Careynah
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:56:00 -
[133] - Quote
The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.
I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring. |
ashley Eoner
177
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Posted - 2013.06.24 23:55:00 -
[134] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Rain6636 wrote:I have a screenshot somewhere... ah, here it is. made this in an hour of level 4s. even caught a suspect! Let me call BS on this since there are no mission that could of given you 2 stats implants in a single hour. There are also no proof of how long it took to get all of that. It could of taken you 7 years and it would look exactly the same in your orca hangar. More like a very selective picture at best. If you get lucky and get a set of good missions then it'd be fairly easy to do that in an hour or so. THe problem is when you have to start rejecting junk missions to keep up that hourly rate.
Also estimated value means crap when it comes to mission loot. Pretty much all the items are being overvalued with some being completely and ridiculously over priced. Also there's the fact that some of that loot isn't from mission running. I imagine once he gets through sorting it and selling he'll only make a 1/3rd of the estimated value at best from actual loot drops.
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Majindoom Shi
We the Gankers
5
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Posted - 2013.06.25 00:37:00 -
[135] - Quote
Why even give this post the time of day? Post on a main or gtfo. LVL 4s are fine they are not going to get nerfed so you can try to funnel people into your ****** low sec gate camps. Just cus you do not know how to pvp you set up these fail gate camps and try to gank people. Only to come back to the forums to cry about the mwd cloak trick.
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Alkin Peladrien
Celestial Argonauts
0
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Posted - 2013.08.24 21:35:00 -
[136] - Quote
Why do you mind so much about the L4 missions? People that invest in trading make billions per month in high sec and your problem are the L4 missions?? What do you want? Newbies running around in low-sec and null sec being easy targets to people that care only for easy kills and not decent PvP ?? If your interest is low sec risk, you can do what you want, and then do some missions every second day, you already have the ships.. If you don't want mission money do something else, missions are not the more profitable way in EvE... Better go and think something smart to make this game better looking and more fun, rather than take the only good income source of new players away!!!! Like it or not, high sec activities are for people that don't play only for pew pew. Go gank the low-null sec gates and let others do PvP when they can and want.
The newbie spoke. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
786
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Posted - 2013.08.24 21:51:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Throktar wrote:What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you? Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole Gǣdo your own thingGǥ doesn't really existGǪ nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack. Quote:Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours? It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.
so you'll be all about supporting some serious Incursion nerfs then
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
383
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Posted - 2013.08.24 21:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
So blitzing gives lots of isk. Do most people do this? Does a new char running L4 solo in a T1 with partial T2 fit T1 BS get 60m/hr, or are we talking someone in a T2 / faction fitted BS/T2 BS/Faction BS?
What is the training time for the latter vs the former. What is the income in a T1 battleship?
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Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
545
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:08:00 -
[139] - Quote
Level 1 mission boat cost: Nothing Level 2 mission boat cost: 10 million Level 3 mission boat cost: 50 million Level 4 mission boat cost: 250 million
Fix lowsec please. Yarr |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
786
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:15:00 -
[140] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:So blitzing gives lots of isk. Do most people do this? Does a new char running L4 solo in a T1 with partial T2 fit T1 BS get 60m/hr, or are we talking someone in a T2 / faction fitted BS/T2 BS/Faction BS?
What is the training time for the latter vs the former. What is the income in a T1 battleship?
sorry but your asking the wrong questions those questions are irrelevant, all that's important is that you have the potential to make 60m per hour and obviously if your not making 60m per hour, your a slack-jawed low brow who should biomass in shame.
that's not a personal insult aimed at you by the way that's the clarification of the arrogant, self important attitude of certain people, based solely on the 'we've been here longer than you, so your a scummy scrub' mentality. |
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:30:00 -
[141] - Quote
OP has a good point about L2-L3 low reward levels. Also, OP has a good point about the effect of bounties on mission reward. Missions generate a lot of raw isk and step on the toes of nullsec/wh/incursion isk generation.
The obvious reward from missions should be LP and useful LP items. To give an example, say faction guns were better than t2 guns but only generated through missions (and faction spawns). Missions would provide the new prime guns in exchange for isk from other activities. There would be less need for highsec and nullsec to "compete", rather two mechanics that reinforce their playstyles: nullsec isk brings the variety of pvp/ratting ships, mission LP store brings the preferred ships and fittings for the faction missions.
So, differentiate the rewards further. GÇó missions: LP and thus high quality items sought after by everyone GÇó nullsec: raw isk, deadspace rarities GÇó wormholes: make the ribbons etc. highly condensed material nuggets, bringing a freighterload of minerals through a WH in the cargo of an industrial. Use yourself in wh or sell to nullsec industrials. GÇó incursions: move officer loot here, keep it rare. Best in slot implants and rare items through LP
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Kiernan Shipka
The Laidai Trading Company
0
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
Erok Careynah wrote:The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.
I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring.
I'm dual boxing dual HaM tengu's running 2 missions at a time with aprox 2000isk per lp , making 110mill per hour 'half' blitzing (i'm not turning down as many missions as i'd like as I want standings increase more than isk atm)
Tengu really doesn't take long to train for.
Lvl 4 missions pay too much i'd agree, but lets be honest I can make more doing incursions or marginally more grinding 0.0 anoms... so is it really THAT unbalanced ?!
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Sevena Black
The Black Redemption
21
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
I was about to reply I don't make 60 mill an hour doing lvl4's. Doing a bit of math makes me believe I sometimes do. I'm usually at 45 including the occasional salvaging tho.
Ofcourse everybody makes more, I'm a n00b, I need a real ship, I suck at EVE etc (apologies if I missed another useless drone-like response).
Compare this to the 1,5 bill I make in 0.0 per hour and I dont think lvl4's payout too much. For your avarege normal dude they payout close to nothing at all.
No risk = no isk seems honered.
I'll admit that the definition of "having ISK" differs between people.
TL;DR Useless "nerf high-sec" thread
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
2198
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:31:00 -
[144] - Quote
Erok Careynah wrote:The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.
I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring.
Try FW - steady income higher than FW and easily done in a poorly skilled frig. Just as boring, but less detrimental to the games economy.
On a side note, 60 mill/hour is a rather low estimate if missions are run selectively - of course you wont get a steady stream, but if you have multiple characters with positive standings and save them up, running them twice a week, you'll easily exceed that.
Blitzing Dread Pirate S. easily yields me 20-25 mill in ~5 mins. No multiboxing, cheap fit.
Highsec L4s should be nerfed to hell and back and then a little more. You know... morons. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
464
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:54:00 -
[145] - Quote
Yes, nerf hi Sec income.
Null blobs are feeling an unreasonable threat from the mighty war machine that is hi Sec. They live in fear of losing their space on a day to day level because of the infinite and inclusive ship building capacity coming out of level 4 missions.
Have no fear though Null Sec, I'm here to save you.
Send me all your ISK I will double it. Triple it if you send more than a trillion. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
235
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:58:00 -
[146] - Quote
This lame ass argument again? Really?
The answer is still no, just like it has been in response to the 3 million similar "nerf high sec into a noob only starter area" threads. Not gonna happen no matter how much you cry. Casual players who refuse to join the brain dead null zombie brigade need a way to generate a little money to buy stuff. They then take that bought stuff out and get it blown up. This keeps the economy going. A simple and moderately rewarding (if boring after a while) way to generate that money comes from missions.
As to that oft-repeated canard about "risk"; heaven knows there's no more "risk" in well-secured alliance null than there is in high sec but, you don't hear high sec players constantly complaining that you mooks make too much. Give it a rest, ffs. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.08.25 00:31:00 -
[147] - Quote
High sec should only have level 1 and level 2 missions. Low sec can have level 3 missions and NPC null should be the only place for levels four and five. |
Dristan Evrard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.08.25 01:27:00 -
[148] - Quote
Nerf the SoE LP store and you're most of the way there already. As it stands, anyone who is missioning in highsec for isk and is not doing so in Osmon is likely doing it wrong.
What's more, there's no logic to having the best highsec agent in the most populous region. Jita doesn't need to be any busier. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
455
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Posted - 2013.08.25 01:33:00 -
[149] - Quote
Seem like people with their agendas are out in force in this thread.
"I don't like the way other people play this game and it makes me mad!" "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2930
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Posted - 2013.08.25 02:38:00 -
[150] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:
As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.
I know this is just a game. I know I am completely anonymous when I play it.
Yet I still can't lower myself to begging.
Things can't get much worse than what we did to this generation of millennials. I'm embarrassed to be one of the post boomers that allowed this to happen to our children.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
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