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Gefen Orion
Orion Star Ltd.
5
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Posted - 2013.06.22 12:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
LEVEL 4 MISSIONS
Per 20 min / isk tick = best ship? Mission blitzing for LP rewards = best ship?
ANOMALIES
Hubs = best ship? Havens = best ship? Sanctums = best ship?
MINERS
ice mining? belt mining? gas harvesting?
Which of the three is the most profitable post-patch?
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SaurianX
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.22 14:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
177
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Posted - 2013.06.22 15:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
SaurianX wrote:Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast.
The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Lady Meegeren
Bromania Happy Cartel
0
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Posted - 2013.06.22 15:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
thanatos (15 bouncers) |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
178
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Posted - 2013.06.22 17:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lady Meegeren wrote:thanatos (15 bouncers)
You can't use a Thanatos in High Sec... Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
179
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Posted - 2013.06.22 17:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Lady Meegeren wrote:thanatos (15 bouncers) You can't use a Thanatos in High Sec...
he's also asking about havens, hubs and sanctums. as well...op is not only in empire (or is looking to at least move up to null bear and kill real people from time to time lol).
If so op...what space are you looking at. For anoms your "best" ship will vary. I know peeps who made good isk naga ratting in certain serpentis anoms. Little to no frigate spawns, jsut sweat the cruisers a bit then it was smack the crap out of the BS'. Some anoms don't need 1 billion in hardware to run basically if cost of ship is something you factor into profit.
YOu also left out FW op. Where based on the whining...a warp stabbed frigate farms lp apparently too well for some lol.
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SaurianX
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.22 18:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:SaurianX wrote:Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast. The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.
An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.
Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
178
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Posted - 2013.06.22 18:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
SaurianX wrote:
An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.
Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.
Not sure if genuine, but if so, then don't forget the Explosive Radius Reduction buff the RNI got this patch - 25% reduction with Lvl 5 skills. Add this to the CM base damage increase and PVE is a joke now. Cruisers and BCs get 1 shot just about every time. BSs get 2-3 shot. Change to Precision for Frigates and 2 shot is very common.
The optimal fit IMHO is:
CN BCU CN BCU CN BCU CN BCU or T2 BCU DC II or DDA II
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster Mission Specific Resist Mission Specific Resist Republic Fleet TP Republic Fleet TP Gist A-Type 100MN AB Imperial Navy Heavy Cap Booster
CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II
T2 Flare T2 Rigor T2 Rigor
Use T2 Fury & Precision.
Don't forget to tailor 5% implants to CMs and general missile skills.
The RNI has gone up in price by 200-250 Mil ISK since the patch, but it's still cheaper than the Mach. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Clara Valentine
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 18:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Co-Processor II
Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
1225 Dps at 60k (Drones) 1066 at 150k (Pure Missile) 465 ms |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
178
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Posted - 2013.06.22 18:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Clara Valentine wrote:Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Co-Processor II
Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
1225 Dps at 60k (Drones) 1066 at 150k (Pure Missile) 465 ms
Overtanked. You don't need a Shield Amp. The Co-Processor is taking a slot that could either be used for a DDA or a DC. The Sensor Booster would only ever get used for Worlds Collide. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
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SaurianX
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.22 19:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:SaurianX wrote:
An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.
Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.
Not sure if genuine, but if so, then don't forget the Explosive Radius Reduction buff the RNI got this patch - 25% reduction with Lvl 5 skills. Add this to the CM base damage increase and PVE is a joke now. Cruisers and BCs get 1 shot just about every time. BSs get 2-3 shot. Change to Precision for Frigates and 2 shot is very common. The optimal fit IMHO is: CN BCU CN BCU CN BCU CN BCU or T2 BCU DC II or DDA II Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster Mission Specific Resist Mission Specific Resist Republic Fleet TP Republic Fleet TP Gist A-Type 100MN AB Imperial Navy Heavy Cap Booster CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II CM Launcher II T2 Flare T2 Rigor T2 Rigor Use T2 Fury & Precision. Don't forget to tailor 5% implants to CMs and general missile skills. The RNI has gone up in price by 200-250 Mil ISK since the patch, but it's still cheaper than the Mach.
This ship/fit is worth around 2bil, my Machariel is worth about 2.15bil (600mil of which is an unnecessarily powerful X-type repairer) That's nothing really when it comes to lvl4 ships, and i'd take autocannons over missiles anyday for that small price. Also, if you're counting all lvl5 skills + T2 ammo, then my Machariel would be 1343 DPS. An upgrade from my Domination 100mn AB to the Gist A-type would equal 616m/s to the RNI's 465m/s.
Still though, I should mention it's been at least 18 months since I last flew a RNI. I dunno if missiles have been buffed much in that time? But in my own personal experience, the Mach just did everything quicker and cleaner.
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Dyphorus
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
59
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Posted - 2013.06.22 19:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:SaurianX wrote:Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast. The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.
Applied DPS, even considering you're in falloff most of the time, is still better on the Mach. Stats on paper are one thing, actual performance is another. Both are solid. Anyone who's used both tends to lean towards the Mach as the better of the two. Although some missions that put you at extreme range to rats may favor the RNI.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1147
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Posted - 2013.06.23 04:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dyphorus wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:SaurianX wrote:Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast. The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper. Applied DPS, even considering you're in falloff most of the time, is still better on the Mach. Stats on paper are one thing, actual performance is another. Both are solid. Anyone who's used both tends to lean towards the Mach as the better of the two. Although some missions that put you at extreme range to rats may favor the RNI.
CNR applied dmg got worse than before, and applied dmg has always been the problem. Cruise missiles got a nerf in exp radius and exp velocity. You need BS 4 to just counter the 20% exp radius nerf, and there's nothing for exp velocity.
AC's 10% falloff nerf is really just half as much as cruise's 20% exp radius and velocity nerf. Besides, the nature of falloff curve is such that, at 50% falloff, you're still doing 80% dps, at 100%, 50% dps. Dps loss at typical ranges are minimal. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
266
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Posted - 2013.06.23 05:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Overtanked. You don't need a Shield Amp. The Co-Processor is taking a slot that could either be used for a DDA or a DC. The Sensor Booster would only ever get used for Worlds Collide.
sebo with scan res is useful anywhere. and a few more missions where you want over 93km targeting range (CNR with max skills). Worlds collide as you said plus The Assault, the score, and pirate invasion (especially since npcs can spawn in structures and bounce even further away). then again at that range it might just be better to micro jump drive and brawl it out, especially considering that is way out of target painter range, and/or I wouldn't want to burn all the way out in a mach either. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
179
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Posted - 2013.06.23 10:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:CNR applied dmg got worse than before, and applied dmg has always been the problem. Cruise missiles got a nerf in exp radius and exp velocity. You need BS 4 to just counter the 20% exp radius nerf, and there's nothing for exp velocity.
Err...no. RNI (use the proper name) applied DPS has improved. Read the patch notes. The RNI now makes PVE a joke.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
179
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Posted - 2013.06.23 10:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:sebo with scan res is useful anywhere. and a few more missions where you want over 93km targeting range (CNR with max skills). Worlds collide as you said plus The Assault, the score, and pirate invasion (especially since npcs can spawn in structures and bounce even further away). then again at that range it might just be better to micro jump drive and brawl it out, especially considering that is way out of target painter range, and/or I wouldn't want to burn all the way out in a mach either.
It's one of those issues that falls under personal preference. I'd rather just use a 2nd TP for almost every mission. I have a Gist DS AB and with my 7 link fleet booster my RNI does well over 500m/s, so it takes no time to burn towards those >103KM NPCs.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Whitehound
1466
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 14:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am the king of PvE.
You thought it was a ship?? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2013.06.23 17:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.
So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.06.23 17:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
running lvl 4 missions is so last 10 years :). Incursion is where it's at. You can finish a site within 15ish mins and get 30 mil+ lp for it. For that the king is the vindicator, nightmare(tachs), machariel (with 1400s), and the 2 shield logis are the ships you need to be able to fly to get a spot in the fleet. Voila, win. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
181
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Posted - 2013.06.23 18:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.
So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.
I have an SNI as well and it's great. It has a higher RoF than the RNI, but slightly less applied DPS because it's not got the 25% Explosive Radius Reduction bonus that the RNI gets. Better tank though. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd say fly the SNI if your missile and support skills are middle of the road (Lvl 3 and no lower), and the RNI if those skills are Lvl 4 -5. The SNI is far more forgiving. Either way, don't scrimp on the cash when it comes to fitting - Faction BCUs and a nice DS Booster are order of the day.
Whichever you use, both need 2 x Republic Fleet TPs, 2 x T2 Rigor and 1 x T2 Flare IMHO.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
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Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2013.06.23 18:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Anti-social Tendencies wrote:While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.
So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.
I have an SNI as well and it's great. It has a higher RoF than the RNI, but slightly less applied DPS because it's not got the 25% Explosive Radius Reduction bonus that the RNI gets. Better tank though. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd say fly the SNI if your missile and support skills are middle of the road (Lvl 3 and no lower), and the RNI if those skills are Lvl 4 -5. The SNI is far more forgiving. Either way, don't scrimp on the cash when it comes to fitting - Faction BCUs and a nice DS Booster are order of the day. Whichever you use, both need 2 x Republic Fleet TPs, 2 x T2 Rigor and 1 x T2 Flare IMHO.
Thanks. I have two toons that fly the Scorpion. Their skills are different. One has excellent skills in everything but doesn't has Cruise V. The second has good core skills, level 3 related missile skills but does have T2 cruise. Actual dps I about the same between them.
Since they fly in wormspace, I just use meta and T2 modules. However for hisec ill look at the faction items you mention.
Thanks.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
372
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Posted - 2013.06.24 12:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
According to pro's tiers that sustained me over the ship re balance threads...it is TFI.....
LoL. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
297
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well, the 13xx DPS out to lock range, before implants, sure is terrible..... |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
13
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Revelation for C5-C6 Escalations. -Bl+Ķd
Wormholes are the best Space.. |
stoicfaux
2871
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 04:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.
In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.
tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.
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To mare
Advanced Technology
207
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Posted - 2013.06.25 10:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
and people cried when they changed the RNI |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
507
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Posted - 2013.06.25 13:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.
In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.
tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.
If you have to deal with Guristas, is the super low sensor strenght a problem on the Golem? My SNI gets jammed once in a while so i'd like to know what it looks like on a Golem before buying into one. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10324
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Posted - 2013.06.25 14:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gefen Orion wrote:LEVEL 4 MISSIONS
Per 20 min / isk tick = best ship? Mission blitzing for LP rewards = best ship?
ANOMALIES
Hubs = best ship? Havens = best ship? Sanctums = best ship?
For a single ship, it's hard to see how a cruise + sentry shield fitted fleet Typhoon can be beaten. But you'll need to fly it carefully it keep it alive and get the best from it.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10324
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Posted - 2013.06.25 14:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:stoicfaux wrote:In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.
In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.
tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.
If you have to deal with Guristas, is the super low sensor strenght a problem on the Golem? My SNI gets jammed once in a while so i'd like to know what it looks like on a Golem before buying into one.
I'm told it's a pretty severe issue with golems.
1 Kings 12:11
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
893
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 14:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:stoicfaux wrote:In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.
In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.
tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.
If you have to deal with Guristas, is the super low sensor strenght a problem on the Golem? My SNI gets jammed once in a while so i'd like to know what it looks like on a Golem before buying into one. I'm told it's a pretty severe issue with golems.
With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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