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Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
0
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Posted - 2013.06.22 20:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you've ever mined then you know just as well as I do that every criminal wants to kill you wil al their power. We need somebody to step up to the plate, we need a big brother. What I thought might be nice is if those who agreed with me joined up so we could form some kind of freelance miner protection service. We would of course charge some kind of fee as to make sure we don't run out of money to fit our ships but it would be low. This is not a recritment add in any way so do not run away thinking I'm dragging you into a corporation. It is more of a rising up of us miners.
Comment any ideas you have to add on to this! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2820
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Posted - 2013.06.22 20:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
0
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I actually thought over this problem, the miners put in a 50 mil deposit each month along with our pay. We pay for any and all ship replacement and if they lose no ships during the moneth, the 50 mil is given back to them |
Steveir
Hagukure Disturbed Acquaintance
55
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well not to pour water on anyone ideas, but ... Having done a bit of this, the first problem is that it boring for the defense fleet. There's less to do than mining. Once you have de-ratted the system, wandered around a bit checking out the system "interesting" or "strategic" points (and bookmarked up safe spots and intel gather points) - that's about it. Of course, if your defense fleet is happy just chatting, then you can overcome the problems. The next problem is the miners, ventures and cheap haulers work fine - but don't expect to get rich quick. Once you start to put any decent mining barge on the grid; rewards increase, as does risk. While two or three decent fighters and a logi/ECM ship are probably enough to keep local lo sec pirates at bay; once you have a decent mining fleet, its enough of a lure to get half a dozen serious losec pirates (at least) to turn up for the fun and reward. Of course you can field a bigger defense fleet, but then becomes it own draw and now you have serious PvP roaming fleets interested in you too. Since you can do pretty much the same thing in a WH for better rewards (and often) less risk; aside from the novelty, there's not a lot to be gained. Obviously, if you drop a POS into the losec mix, then you can increase the ISK income significantly. Don't get me wrong, I love doing stuff in Eve just for the hell of it, regardless of efficiency of ISK gain; but I'm not sure that you will have a great deal of success here. Although I can only speak of losec and WH, I have no experience of Null to speak of.
What need to happen, as many have commented, is a new resource, ring mining perhaps, that take advantage of the Ventures's strength, some sort of long cycle time (30 mins). This would create a reason of a small fleet of Ventures to head off to losec supported by a small gang defense fleet. Add in some Ring-Rat Drones (fast spawn) and I would say we had a mini game - with the benefit or enhancing losec game play for our Pirate friends. |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
1
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well I'm glad that all of those problems can be solved by a dedicated group, in other news I have decided to take early appilication for the program meaning miners can sign up to be protected, until our fleet increaces though, we will stick to low sec but expect this to change in a week or so. PM me in game if u wish to invest in this service. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote:I actually thought over this problem, the miners put in a 50 mil deposit each month along with our pay. We pay for any and all ship replacement and if they lose no ships during the moneth, the 50 mil is given back to them
So, you are planning not to protect them but to insure their ships? |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
We are doing bothat the same time, if they lose their ship uner our protection then they will be replaced, basically a two in one package. |
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
64
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec? Mr Epeen
Alias Tatan wrote:I actually thought over this problem, the miners put in a 50 mil deposit each month along with our pay. We pay for any and all ship replacement and if they lose no ships during the moneth, the 50 mil is given back to them
You still fail to explain how it will solve the actual problem Mr Epeen brings up....
You cannot preempt kill a suspected suicide ganker until they become flashy to you without incurring the wrath of CONCORD first, and by the time they actually do gank the miner to become flashy, they're dead anyways.
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Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Noddy Comet wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec? Mr Epeen Alias Tatan wrote:I actually thought over this problem, the miners put in a 50 mil deposit each month along with our pay. We pay for any and all ship replacement and if they lose no ships during the moneth, the 50 mil is given back to them You still fail to explain how it will solve the actual problem Mr Epeen brings up.... You cannot preempt kill a suspected suicide ganker until they become flashy to you without incurring the wrath of CONCORD first, and by the time they actually do gank the miner to become flashy, they're dead anyways.
A possible fix to this would be using our own hauler to move their ore back and forth for them that is nearly gank proof |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
The ore is safe then, the Hulk is still dead. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
447
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote: A possible fix to this would be using our own hauler to move their ore back and forth for them that is nearly gank proof
There's not a hauler you can bring that's gank proof if someone gets bored enough. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
[quote=Neuntausend]The ore is safe then, the Hulk is still dead.[/
haha, I do see ur point but you have to know that ganking usually occurs to get the ore so if you remove the ore from the equation u dramatically decrease the chance of a gank. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
447
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote:
haha, I do see ur point but you have to know that ganking usually occurs to get the ore so if you remove the ore from the equation u dramatically decrease the chance of a gank.
Ganking usually occurs for lulz. Picking up any ore is simply icing on the cake. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 21:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm taking any ideas you have to fix this problem but as we will replace their ship and kill the attacker, I see no problem |
Sex Slave Girl
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Put a damage control II, Some shield amplifiers and Invurnability Field II, and your Mack will have 3 times more EHP.
The suicide gankers will have to invest a lot more money to get that down. They could stil manage but they will need more members and lose a lot more isk then you.
But most fools out there fit for mining yield, making their tank so poor, they deserve to be ganked.
Also note, the AFK miners are usually the ones that get ganked all the time too. |
Lord Mandelor
Order Expeditions
178
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
There already exists a miner protection service. It's called a New Order mining permit. Knight and Agent of the New Order |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
From what I've observed though you don't protect anybody who buys a permit, you simply blow up the ones that don't unless we are talking about different people |
Alias Tatan
Caldari Dynamics
2
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yes we are talking about different people, there was another corp that I ran into named I H4TE YOUR FACE who made miners pay to mine and simply killed the ones that didn't. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
366
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote:From what I've observed though you don't protect anybody who buys a permit, you simply blow up the ones that don't unless we are talking about different people That's just a slight difference in marketing I guess. Remove insurance. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1123
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec? Mr Epeen
I PROPOSE A NEW TYPE OF SUICIDE GANKER CALLED: OLD ORDER (O.O) that ganks all catalysts & suspiciously fitted ships in ice anoms in HI sec & ore belts O.O would ask for 'PERMITS' to gank in ice anoms that cost 1 BILLION ISK per year An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
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Shizuken
Venerated Stars
150
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec? Mr Epeen Increase the cost of ships. Make a trained crew give significant bonuses to operational strength. Clamp down on the ability of toons with low sec status to operate in highsec.
Those are just a few ways |
Domer Pyle
Northern Flemish Bastards Inc Yulai Federation
74
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Posted - 2013.06.22 23:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
i heard Elyham runs a mining buddy program. you guys should look into it. "Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1091
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Posted - 2013.06.22 23:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So how, exactly, do you propose to protect the miners when most losses are from suicide ganks in high sec? Mr Epeen
You couldn't, but that said, if I could "summon" ,for lack of a better term, my defenders from within the system or nearby systems then I would mine in lowsec and nullsec far more.
The current advantage is so heavily screwed to the ganker(s) that running a serious mining op anyplace but highsec or a quiet nullsec systems borders on insanity. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
448
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Posted - 2013.06.22 23:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote:I'm taking any ideas you have to fix this problem but as we will replace their ship and kill the attacker, I see no problem
'Kill the attacker.'
Sure you will. In hisec, there will be nothing to kill. They'll have ganked, been CONCORDed, and warped off. You might get their suspect pod, but probably not. They'll have their lulz, and you'll be dishing out to return those deposits.
In low and null, you'll maybe kill a tackle ship, but be completely impotent versus whatever sniping vessels or bombers they've warped in at range to pop both the barges, and then some of you.
Sell shield extenders and DC IIs to miners. You'll be doing them a greater service. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.06.23 01:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Empire miners are cheap and stupid. Why would anyone care if they died? |
Skill Training Online
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2013.06.23 01:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Freakdevil wrote:Empire miners are cheap and stupid. Why would anyone care if they died?
Ampire miners keep prices down on the goods you need the most, ever look out how manie items use tritanium? like all of them bro. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Caliban Logistics and Storage
9283
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Posted - 2013.06.23 01:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alias Tatan wrote:ganking usually occurs to get the ore so if you remove the ore from the equation u dramatically decrease the chance of a gank. You're naive if you believe that ganks occur to get the ore, ganks occur because people don't fit tanks, go afk and expect others not to violate their ships for shiggles, other good reasons to gank someone are hate mail and chat logs.
I eat your hatred for breakfast, then wash it down with your tears. |
Bloody Wench
575
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Posted - 2013.06.23 01:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seriously why do you put up with all this crap?
Move out of hisec.
Wormholes, Low, Null.
I can't keep the damn Ore sites from shitting up my WH, I trigger them every day but no sooner has 1 de-spawned another one shows up. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2013.06.23 02:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lord Mandelor wrote:There already exists a miner protection service. It's called a New Order mining permit.
Hm... Last I checked the New Order didn't protect miners , it just extorted ISK out of them in exchange for not harassing them. You aren't seriously suggesting that that the New Order will stand watch over the miners and keep them from getting banked?
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 02:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
[quote=Domanique Altares
Sell shield extenders and DC IIs to miners. You'll be doing them a greater service. [/quote]
Very true. Unfortunately in my experience, miners simply don't get it. The mining barge rebalance was a huge boon to miners. Now they could have a reasonable tank and a reasonable cargo hold. Unfortunately, many miners have chosen to ignore the options open to them for tanking and simple fit a max yield ship and wonder why they die.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
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