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dexington
Dexington Corporation
675
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are we allowed to run missions without having to compete against other players?, no other profession is allowed to do that.
Trading, exploration, production, mining and so on, are all influenced by the constant competition of other players. People might move to you area and start competing against you for the best sites, or constantly undercut your market orders. The market might get flooded with items, like we are seeing at the moment with data and relic items.
All professions are influenced by other players, except missions. As a mission runner you are payed by the npc, totally unaffected by other players. No matter how many players use the same agent the rewards are always the same, there is absolutely no player vs. player competition.
I know some are going to say, "another nerf mission thread", and i guess it is... but i'm not saying nerf the income, just make it more competitive, rewards smart, skilled, competitive playgame more then "afk" mission running. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Guywood Threepbrush
Motsu Mission Monkeys
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
...you mean like incursions? |
Dilligafmofo
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
201
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Anyone is able to scan out your mission once you are inside it and take the mission objective / kill rats or indeed kill you.
Player interaction is everywhere |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
675
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:Anyone is able to scan out your mission once you are inside it and take the mission objective / kill rats or indeed kill you.
Player interaction is everywhere
It's sooooo likely someone is going to scan you down while in a mission, and you can just warp out and decline the mission. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Rinnve Elennean
Carebear Explorations LTD
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :) |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
675
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rinnve Elennean wrote:NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
I guess you are right about convert lp is influenced by other players.
Rinnve Elennean wrote:Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :)
Mission runners a famous for doing stupid things in overly expensive ships, but i think that classify as human stupidity not as challenge by game design. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
195
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 09:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
dexington wrote:Why are we allowed to run missions without having to compete against other players?, no other profession is allowed to do that.
I'll think about all the players I'm not competing against when I try and flog another million LP. oh wait who just undercut me.
Quote:
Trading, exploration, production, mining and so on, are all influenced by the constant competition of other players. People might move to you area and start competing against you for the best sites, or constantly undercut your market orders. The market might get flooded with items, like we are seeing at the moment with data and relic items.
All professions are influenced by other players, except missions. As a mission runner you are payed by the npc, totally unaffected by other players. No matter how many players use the same agent the rewards are always the same, there is absolutely no player vs. player competition.
I know some are going to say, "another nerf mission thread", and i guess it is... but i'm not saying nerf the income, just make it more competitive, rewards smart, skilled, competitive playgame more then "afk" mission running.
If you want competition, sisters will sell you a nice probe launcher.
There is no need to nerf mission income, its been quietly nerfed by incursions, which has inflated the value of all gather tasks (ie everything but ratting and missioning are boosted by it).
|
Rinnve Elennean
Carebear Explorations LTD
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
dexington wrote:Mission runners a famous for doing stupid things in overly expensive ships, but i think that classify as human stupidity not as challenge by game design. Using multi-bil ship for mission running is not stupid per se, it is needed to maximise isk/hour. And thanks to other players, you actually need to think while you use such a ship, even in hi-sec. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
As Rinnve and Tauranon said, there's plenty of competition in liquidating a large portion of the reward assets. Not everything has to be heavily contested in this game. Sometimes you just want to relax and blow stuff up. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
676
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Not everything has to be heavily contested in this game. Sometimes you just want to relax and blow stuff up.
while that might be true, only mission runners are giving that choice.... I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
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ExcalibursTemplar
Citadel Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rinnve Elennean wrote:NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :)
Rinnve Elennean speaks the truth there.
After roughly a year and a half break i came back to eve and thought I'd give mission running out of Osmon a try. Two mission latter i paid the price for my own stupidity.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18812644
|
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
dexington wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Not everything has to be heavily contested in this game. Sometimes you just want to relax and blow stuff up. while that might be true, only mission runners are giving that choice.... Not really. Missions aren't restricted to a select few. If that's the sort of gameplay you want, then fit up a ship and run some missions. It's just one choice of many. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
676
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Not really. Missions aren't restricted to a select few. If that's the sort of gameplay you want, then fit up a ship and run some missions. It's just one choice of many.
I like exploration, if missions was designed the same way, there would be a chance the agent would give the same mission to more then only player. I can't choose opt out the possibility of other players showing up and trying to steal the reward, only the mission runner get to play eve in easy mode. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
dexington wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Not really. Missions aren't restricted to a select few. If that's the sort of gameplay you want, then fit up a ship and run some missions. It's just one choice of many. I like exploration, if missions was designed the same way, there would be a chance the agent would give the same mission to more then only player. I can't choose opt out the possibility of other players showing up and trying to steal the reward, only the mission runner get to play eve in easy mode. Like I said, if that's the sort of gameplay you want, then run some missions. If not, then don't. Every profession in Eve has different advantages and disadvantages. If there isn't one that has exactly what you want, try suggesting new content rather than trying to change someone else's. |
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:Rinnve Elennean wrote:NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :) Rinnve Elennean speaks the truth there. After roughly a year and a half break i came back to eve and thought I'd give mission running out of Osmon a try. Two mission latter i paid the price for my own stupidity. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18812644 would you mind explaining the circumstances of that encounter; was it a simple case of alpha damage, or was the room also heavy with NPC DPS? "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
195
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
dexington wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Not really. Missions aren't restricted to a select few. If that's the sort of gameplay you want, then fit up a ship and run some missions. It's just one choice of many. I like exploration, if missions was designed the same way, there would be a chance the agent would give the same mission to more then only player. I can't choose opt out the possibility of other players showing up and trying to steal the reward, only the mission runner get to play eve in easy mode.
hate to break this to you but loot thieves will take the objective if they recognize it.
|
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 12:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think what OP is missing is the playerbase that enjoys missions, and the static gameplay it provides in terms of "always available" interaction...
...and the revenue the gameplay generates "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
195
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 13:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Feanira Darr wrote:ExcalibursTemplar wrote:Rinnve Elennean wrote:NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :) Rinnve Elennean speaks the truth there. After roughly a year and a half break i came back to eve and thought I'd give mission running out of Osmon a try. Two mission latter i paid the price for my own stupidity. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18812644 would you mind explaining the circumstances of that encounter; was it a simple case of alpha damage, or was the room also heavy with NPC DPS?
active tank battleship, resists turned off after a jump or during undocking. need an undock insta if pimp fitted. |
ExcalibursTemplar
Citadel Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 13:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Feanira Darr wrote:ExcalibursTemplar wrote:Rinnve Elennean wrote:NPC reward is only a fraction of income of mission runner. About 50-70% of income is LP points. You compete with other players when you sell LP items.
Also, there are such things as ninja salvaging/looting and suicide ganking. Try to do some missions in popular mission hub (i.e. Osmon) in pimped mission-running ship and see what happens :) Rinnve Elennean speaks the truth there. After roughly a year and a half break i came back to eve and thought I'd give mission running out of Osmon a try. Two mission latter i paid the price for my own stupidity. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18812644 would you mind explaining the circumstances of that encounter; was it a simple case of alpha damage, or was the room also heavy with NPC DPS?
Yeah i cocked up in the mission and set off all the triggers, so by the time i finished the mission and warped to the gate i only had around 30% shields left and hardly any cap. It wouldn't of made a blind bit of difference anyway as there was at least ten tornadoes there waiting. it was just me being a prat and cocking up my mission that made it incredibly easy for them to gank me though.
Ahh well i learnt a couple of good lesson,
Don't fly a pimped ship in Osman.
Also if low on shields and cap dock up before jumping through a gate.
And finally don't panic, overheat the crap out of everything and take as many of the b@stards with you as you can (i didn't even get on a kill mail). |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
297
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 13:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
The only part not directly open to competition is the agent reward (and ninjas stealing mission items render that position unsafe too).
The...what? 2-4 million per hour of rewards isn't exactly blowing peoples socks off.
Every other aspect of missioning, every one is open to competition. |
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Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 13:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
what's special about Osmon, that prevents an alpha group from travelling elsewhere? "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
ExcalibursTemplar
Citadel Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 13:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Feanira Darr wrote:what's special about Osmon, that prevents an alpha group from travelling elsewhere?
Its one of the only places you can run L4 sisters of eve agents. The probe launchers in their LP store are really good and easy to cash in the LP. |
Dorrann
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 14:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
dexington wrote:Why are we allowed to run missions without having to compete against other players?, no other profession is allowed to do that.
Trading, exploration, production, mining and so on, are all influenced by the constant competition of other players. People might move to you area and start competing against you for the best sites, or constantly undercut your market orders. The market might get flooded with items, like we are seeing at the moment with data and relic items.
All professions are influenced by other players, except missions. As a mission runner you are payed by the npc, totally unaffected by other players. No matter how many players use the same agent the rewards are always the same, there is absolutely no player vs. player competition.
I know some are going to say, "another nerf mission thread", and i guess it is... but i'm not saying nerf the income, just make it more competitive, rewards smart, skilled, competitive playgame more then "afk" mission running.
Or, more accurately....... WHAAAA I DONT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE DOING STUFF I DONT LIKE !!! FIXX ITTTTT NAOWWWWWW !!!!!1111!!!
Grow up. |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
424
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 14:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dexington, all players are effected by mission runners, as there are limited activities in EVE that actually create ISK, mission running is essential to all market, PVP, PVE, exploration, and anything else you can think of. Without the ISK printed by mission runners there would be no economy and no EVE.
So find a carebear and thank him for making the game you play possible.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
43
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 15:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Dexington, all players are effected by mission runners, as there are limited activities in EVE that actually create ISK, mission running is essential to all market, PVP, PVE, exploration, and anything else you can think of. Without the ISK printed by mission runners there would be no economy and no EVE.
So find a carebear and thank him for making the game you play possible.
I prefer to think my ISK was generated by insurance payouts.
|
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
424
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 15:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Dexington, all players are effected by mission runners, as there are limited activities in EVE that actually create ISK, mission running is essential to all market, PVP, PVE, exploration, and anything else you can think of. Without the ISK printed by mission runners there would be no economy and no EVE.
So find a carebear and thank him for making the game you play possible. I prefer to think my ISK was generated by insurance payouts. It's a good thought but diminishing returns means that ISK eventually will dry up and disappear.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
43
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 15:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:S Byerley wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Dexington, all players are effected by mission runners, as there are limited activities in EVE that actually create ISK, mission running is essential to all market, PVP, PVE, exploration, and anything else you can think of. Without the ISK printed by mission runners there would be no economy and no EVE.
So find a carebear and thank him for making the game you play possible. I prefer to think my ISK was generated by insurance payouts. It's a good thought but diminishing returns means that ISK eventually will dry up and disappear.
I don't follow; what diminishing returns?
|
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
424
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 15:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Insure a BS and the pay-out might get you a BC, probably a Cruiser, lose the cruiser and you might get a t2 frig but most likely a T1 frig, lose the frig and you can get a shuttle.
Diminishing returns.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2004
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 16:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Even if the only reward from missions were ISK, you are still competing with other players.
Consider running the 100 meter dash. You are not allowed to attack, trip or interfere with any of the other runners. Yet its still considered a competition, so much so its in the Olympics. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2004
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 16:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Insure a BS and the pay-out might get you a BC, probably a Cruiser, lose the cruiser and you might get a t2 frig but most likely a T1 frig, lose the frig and you can get a shuttle.
Diminishing returns.
I mine and build a BS. It explodes and I get ISK. I mine and build another.. repeat as needed and I get a supply of ISK.
Insurance is a ISK source into the game in that its coming from NPCs, just like mission ISK. However, I doubt its sufficient to have a healthy economy.
On the other hand with more people exploring there are fewer running missions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
691
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 16:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
No idea of what you are talking about?
I can jump in your mission right now and start taking the bounty and salvage.
People cry about it all the time.
What you do is sit cloaked off of a station with probes out of sight. You scan the mission ships for their ID number, its good all day. Then when you want to compete with them, you simply ignore all the other results from your combat scanner probes.
we're gonna make them eat our ship, then ship out our ship, and then eat their ship that's made up of our ship that we made 'em eat. |
imbaRabbit
Suddenly rabbit
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 17:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: What you do is sit cloaked off of a station with probes out of sight. You scan the mission ships for their ID number, its good all day. Then when you want to compete with them, you simply ignore all the other results from your combat scanner probes.
This. Not many people know about this fact ... And that's how I find some people instantly within system filled up with 200+ active mission runners in space. Does not matter where you are when someone gets your ship ID. It does not change, even after down-time, even after re-docking, even after changing ships.
|
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
113
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 18:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Posting in a stealth "nerf missions" thread. |
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 19:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
imbaRabbit wrote:Cipher Jones wrote: What you do is sit cloaked off of a station with probes out of sight. You scan the mission ships for their ID number, its good all day. Then when you want to compete with them, you simply ignore all the other results from your combat scanner probes.
This. Not many people know about this fact ... And that's how I find some people instantly within system filled up with 200+ active mission runners in space. Does not matter where you are when someone gets your ship ID. It does not change, even after down-time, even after re-docking, even after changing ships. EDIT: I have no clue why I don't finish my thread until the end but I always have to edit things -_- ... Anyway, this is something what CCP should look into, because you can harass someone until oblivion and IMHO that's quite game-breaking experience. Although there is some kind of realism within the system o_O? ship ID stays the same through the game for evar? "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
Mudkest
Adventurers
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 20:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
imbaRabbit wrote: This. Not many people know about this fact ... And that's how I find some people instantly within system filled up with 200+ active mission runners in space. Does not matter where you are when someone gets your ship ID. It does not change, even after down-time, even after re-docking, even after changing ships.
so its actualy character id and not ship id, thats interesting to know. |
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 20:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
that's ******* fantastic to know!
learned something amazing today. "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
Mudkest
Adventurers
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 20:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Feanira Darr wrote:that's ******* fantastic to know!
learned something amazing today.
not saying that's how it is, but if the post I quoted is true, guess it would be a better name for it :) gonna do some testing when I get home in a couple of days, see for myself how it is :) |
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 21:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mudkest wrote:Feanira Darr wrote:that's ******* fantastic to know!
learned something amazing today. not saying that's how it is, but if the post I quoted is true, guess it would be a better name for it :) gonna do some testing when I get home in a couple of days, see for myself how it is :) me too. not that it's hard to probe down battleships, but still. damn "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
693
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 21:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
no its ship and resets at downtime. we're gonna make them eat our ship, then ship out our ship, and then eat their ship that's made up of our ship that we made 'em eat. |
Feanira Darr
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 22:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:no its ship and resets at downtime. still OP. "Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC |
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JAG Fox
GunStars
48
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 01:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
what would be the point in doing this though? other than pissing off mission runners.. Kisses!Foxie. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
418
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 02:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
missions are not "instanced" where nobody can enter it like other mmos. You can be scanned down and killed inside your own mission. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1478
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 02:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aren't mission payouts scaled based on the average mission running time? So if you run missions for a popular corporation that others blitz fast, the payouts are smaller? I haven't run missions in forever so I don't know if I am remembering that correctly. |
Rain6638
Team Evil
519
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 06:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Aren't mission payouts scaled based on the average mission running time? So if you run missions for a popular corporation that others blitz fast, the payouts are smaller? I haven't run missions in forever so I don't know if I am remembering that correctly. I did notice a particular mission was worth nearly 7k LP for a certain corporation, while it is slightly better than 4k LP with Caldari Navy. so it might be true. Free raffle-guess Thanatos ...thing?...for fun! take a break from the pew pew and post a guess ;-) [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 06:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
The creation of the Tornado was the biggest missioning nerf ever. You get the same suicide-gank capability of a Maelstrom for a third of the price. Shield tanks really, really suck without a deadspace booster and the Tornado means it's pretty much always profitable to suicide gank a missioner with a deadspace booster, even if the entire rest of the fit is T2. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
679
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 09:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:missions are not "instanced" where nobody can enter it like other mmos. You can be scanned down and killed inside your own mission.
If you mine you are forced to sit in a belt that does not need to be scanned down, exploration you need to scan down to enter, but don't need to be scanned down with combat probes. Missions runners can only be scanned down with combat probes, which might be fair do to the fact it's more predictable in which systems my might find them.
But the consequence of someone scanning down your mission site, is nothing compared to having someone else enter a deadspace site. Unless you need a special item to complete the mission you can just ignore the person warping in, and kill what needs to be killed. If you lose the item you can just decline the mission, or just decline the mission start with.
Someone can repeatedly scan down you ship id, nothing special about that, harassment is not something unique that only affects mission runners, bumping miners seems to be much worse then someone scanning down mission runners.
Mission running is easy mode compared to all other professions, mainly because you get a solo site to do the mission, and the consequence of someone scanning down the site is close to non. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
679
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 09:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:The creation of the Tornado was the biggest missioning nerf ever.
Not something unique for mission runners, industrial and freighters suffer as much if not more then mission runners.
It was a buff to suicide ganking, not a direct nerf to mission runners. You still have the option to fly something else then 10B faction battleships, and you are no longer at juice target. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
428
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 09:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
This is why I was in fully support of dynamic quality for agents. If your agent becomes over used then the quality will lower and you'll be better finding a new one.
You can stay and run missions for the agent you want but if it's over used the LP/ISK payouts will go down as well, you would see more people moving around systems (if they want ISK) as well as maybe even people heading out of Caldari space as the LP there becomes much lower compared to the other less populated regions.
If you want to go even deeper into a dynamic universe then make the changes reflect FW as well, meaning there is more reason to want/need your side in the war to do well.
There is a lot of work that could be done to make HighSec more dynamic and involved. This can also be tired into the "nerfs" people are calling for within Empire. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Tarmaniel
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 10:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
dexington wrote:Xequecal wrote:The creation of the Tornado was the biggest missioning nerf ever. Not something unique for mission runners, industrial and freighters suffer as much if not more then mission runners. It was a buff to suicide ganking, not a direct nerf to mission runners. You still have the option to fly something else then 10B faction battleships, and you are no longer at juice target.
Pretty much any shield-tanking BS with a deadspace booster is profitable to gank. Even a C-type LSB is 300 million, and that alone pays for the costs of the ships it takes to gank it. A C-type XLSB is worth 750 million, now you're making a gigantic profit via ganking. The profitability only goes up from there if other faction/deadspace stuff is being used.
So just use T2 stuff? Well, a T2 shield tank simply does not cut it in L4s. You need that deadspace booster. A Gist C-type has over double the cap efficiency of a T2 booster, and costs 70 CPU less to fit. People just don't understand how much of a game changer the Gist booster is, it's this line of items alone that makes shield tanking so supreme in PvE. PvE shield tanks without one just suck, and I mean they really really suck.
A 6-slot T2 shield tank with 2x CCC II and a CCC I on a RNI only tanks 300 DPS. That's with max skills, something missioners are not likely to have. It's just not enough, you'll get killed horribly in many missions. Running this "epic" 300 dps tank also means no prop mod and no catalyst rigs. Missions with a far-away gate take forever, missions with a bunch of elite frigs can't be done at all as they switch to your drones and your missiles cannot damage them without said rigs. |
imbaRabbit
Suddenly rabbit
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 12:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Feanira Darr wrote:ship ID stays the same through the game for evar?
So, I've conducted few tests (again), and here are the results:
After I've scanned the ship, I've got the Signature ID. It seems that this Signature ID is tied to specific ship and a player. Once when you assemble ship it seems that it creates the new Signature ID which is in space (SigID = f(Character ID, ship)). I haven't tested out what will happen if you give your ship via the contract. It would be nice to see if it's possible to get the same Signature ID if you just contract the ship to other user who will then fly it in the space.
* Scanning the ship, I got the ship ID = #1.
* Checking the Signature ID after dock/un-dock: the Signature ID is same (#1).
* Checking the Signature ID after ship change: the Signature ID is not the same (#2).
* Checking the Signature ID after coming back into the first ship: the signature ID is the same (#1).
* Repackaging the ship has influenced the Signature ID - new ship ID is #3.
* Restarted client (session restart) and the signature is the same (#3).
* Changed the system, and the signature is the same (#3).
* Returning back into original system and the signature is the same (#3).
What is left to test?
* Check the Signature ID after server down-time. Pre-Odyssey the signature has stood the same, but I'll update this topic later (tomorrow).
* Check the Signature ID after changing the ship owner (via contract, and without repackaging). Since we know that repackaging will change the Signature ID. |
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Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
105
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Posted - 2013.06.29 14:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
dexington wrote:Mission running is easy mode compared to all other professions, mainly because you get a solo site to do the mission, and the consequence of someone scanning down the site is close to non. You haven't yet explained to us why this is a problem. Some professions are going to be easier/harder than others, which logically means there needs to be an easiest. You're telling us you think missioning is the easiest. So what? |
imbaRabbit
Suddenly rabbit
54
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:no its ship and resets at downtime.
It's not ship ID, to be more exact it's Signature ID.
Also, it does not reset after down-time, as I've said:
imbaRabbit wrote: Does not matter where you are when someone gets your ship ID. It does not change, even after down-time, even after re-docking, even after changing ships
Although, I would just like to correct myself and change Ship ID into the Signature ID.
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dexington
Dexington Corporation
680
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
imbaRabbit wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:no its ship and resets at downtime. It's not ship ID, to be more exact it's Signature ID. Also, it does not reset after down-time, as I've said: imbaRabbit wrote: Does not matter where you are when someone gets your ship ID. It does not change, even after down-time, even after re-docking, even after changing ships
Although, I would just like to correct myself and change Ship ID into the Signature ID.
Have you tried repacking the ship?, if i remember correctly that will give it a new id. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
imbaRabbit
Suddenly rabbit
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 12:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
dexington wrote: Have you tried repacking the ship?, if i remember correctly that will give it a new id.
Post above: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3277458#post3277458 (EDIT: removed dot, lol).
I just have to test sharing the same ship without repackaging.
But probably, the Signature ID will stay since I think they're assigning a key which is not found within the list of occupied signatures. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 14:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
dexington wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:Anyone is able to scan out your mission once you are inside it and take the mission objective / kill rats or indeed kill you.
Player interaction is everywhere It's sooooo likely someone is going to scan you down while in a mission,
Has happened to me. In highsec.
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Cage Man
238
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
This thread is missing something.. umm.. oh yea... Show me where the mission runner touched you???
if its so much fun and so easy.. doityourselfmate If you don't like it.. move on and do something you do like... The thick plottens... |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
694
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Posted - 2013.06.30 23:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
1. regardless of the mechanic, missions are competetive negating the the question in the OP
2. who the **** repackages ships while missioning?
Eve is Real |
Jared Falkenberg
Cricketeers
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
If missions are such a great deal, why don't you run missions instead of trying to ruin someone else's fun? |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
680
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jared Falkenberg wrote:If missions are such a great deal, why don't you run missions instead of trying to ruin someone else's fun?
I guess the idea of risk / reward, steep learning curve and harsh and cold universe don't appeal to you... maybe you play someone else instead of trying to ruin someone else's fun. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
162
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
dexington wrote:Why are we allowed to run missions without having to compete against other players?, no other profession is allowed to do that.... I know some Pirates that would disagree. They have lots of fun and make loads of ISK killing mission runners.
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dexington
Dexington Corporation
680
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Posted - 2013.07.01 09:47:00 -
[61] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:dexington wrote:Why are we allowed to run missions without having to compete against other players?, no other profession is allowed to do that.... I know some Pirates that would disagree. They have lots of fun and make loads of ISK killing mission runners.
The only reason we hear about mission runners dying to pirates, is because of the laughable amount of stupidity involved in pimping out faction battleship with officer modules, only to lose it to a couple of battlecruiser while afk on the undock or gate, or to concorde do to not understanding aggro mechanics and using smartbombs or something equally stupid when attacked.
Fact is there is no other profession where you have as little risk compared to the reward as running level 4 missions in high sec, the biggest threat to you ship is your own stupidity. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
298
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Posted - 2013.07.01 10:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Except that biggest isk gains come not from risking your ship but fighting on the markets, doing research for LP items, hauling the loot to a trade zone etc. The mission itself is just like a hauler with a minigame to make red blinkies disappear.
In other words the 'mission' itself is may be low risk, but the bounty payout alone is about right for the risk. The rest of the income comes from the fiercely competitive area known as the market.
Basically, I really dont see what's broken here tbh. If people want to screw with mission runners they certainly can do.
You could as easily contract your last sentence to "In high sec, the biggest risk to your ship, is your own stupidity" and it'd be entirely accurate. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 11:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
dexington wrote:Fact is there is no other profession where you have as little risk compared to the reward as running level 4 missions in high sec, the biggest threat to you ship is your own stupidity. Once again, you haven't explained to us why this is a problem. You said you enjoy exploration. Great! You found your niche. Why does it chafe you so much that mission runners are having fun, too? The risk vs. reward bit is there... missions are lower risk and lower reward than many other professions. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.07.19 03:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:dexington wrote:Zor'katar wrote:Not really. Missions aren't restricted to a select few. If that's the sort of gameplay you want, then fit up a ship and run some missions. It's just one choice of many. I like exploration, if missions was designed the same way, there would be a chance the agent would give the same mission to more then only player. I can't choose opt out the possibility of other players showing up and trying to steal the reward, only the mission runner get to play eve in easy mode. hate to break this to you but loot thieves will take the objective if they recognize it. Yeah, I've looted other people's level 4 missions before. They were already gone/dead but they left the loot in the wrecks untouched. Made 10-15 million. |
Nambu
Two Dogs Operations
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tarmaniel wrote: So just use T2 stuff? Well, a T2 shield tank simply does not cut it in L4s. You need that deadspace booster. A Gist C-type has over double the cap efficiency of a T2 booster, and costs 70 CPU less to fit. People just don't understand how much of a game changer the Gist booster is, it's this line of items alone that makes shield tanking so supreme in PvE. PvE shield tanks without one just suck, and I mean they really really suck.
A 6-slot T2 shield tank with 2x CCC II and a CCC I on a RNI only tanks 300 DPS. That's with max skills, something missioners are not likely to have. It's just not enough, you'll get killed horribly in many missions. Running this "epic" 300 dps tank also means no prop mod and no catalyst rigs. Missions with a far-away gate take forever, missions with a bunch of elite frigs can't be done at all as they switch to your drones and your missiles cannot damage them without said rigs.
Lol really a T2 shield tank simply does not cut it in L4s. That line is utter crap. You may not be running missions with record completion times, but you can do L4s, any L4, in a Raven with a non T2, all Meta <5 6/7 slot tank. You dont need to be cap stable, you dont need to perma boost, you do need to know what you are doing to a small degree. Most l4s are a joke, and the few slightly challenging ones can still be run without even T2 gear if you know what you are doing. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
584
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nambu wrote:Tarmaniel wrote: So just use T2 stuff? Well, a T2 shield tank simply does not cut it in L4s. You need that deadspace booster. A Gist C-type has over double the cap efficiency of a T2 booster, and costs 70 CPU less to fit. People just don't understand how much of a game changer the Gist booster is, it's this line of items alone that makes shield tanking so supreme in PvE. PvE shield tanks without one just suck, and I mean they really really suck.
A 6-slot T2 shield tank with 2x CCC II and a CCC I on a RNI only tanks 300 DPS. That's with max skills, something missioners are not likely to have. It's just not enough, you'll get killed horribly in many missions. Running this "epic" 300 dps tank also means no prop mod and no catalyst rigs. Missions with a far-away gate take forever, missions with a bunch of elite frigs can't be done at all as they switch to your drones and your missiles cannot damage them without said rigs.
Lol really a T2 shield tank simply does not cut it in L4s. That line is utter crap. You may not be running missions with record completion times, but you can do L4s, any L4, in a Raven with a non T2, all Meta <5 6/7 slot tank. You dont need to be cap stable, you dont need to perma boost, you do need to know what you are doing to a small degree. Most l4s are a joke, and the few slightly challenging ones can still be run without even T2 gear if you know what you are doing.
Meta stuff will do it just fine on some ships. Hell a SNI can run a 4 slot non T2 tank just fine. XL booster, bost amp and 2 specific resist mod and you are golden. |
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