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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2667
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 05:04:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sure thing.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15298
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Posted - 2013.06.29 05:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
See sig and the posts within about about the EVE skill system.
In short: no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
540
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Posted - 2013.06.29 05:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Somebody losed a duel.....
Damn, man. Learn to spell lol
Is losed even a word? . . . . . . . . . . Just looked it up and "Losed" used to be a word but it is now obsolete. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
320
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Posted - 2013.06.29 05:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
The Real Thing
Never get near a granny with a knife (or shotgun)!
Meet ya on the Battlefield! "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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baltec1
Bat Country
7060
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Posted - 2013.06.29 06:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
"This rifter cost me nothing, all the mods were looted from rats, I dont think my guns have ammo. I just tackled a dread for my fleet."
Newbees. Effective from 30 minutes old and fearless warriors, never leave station without one. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
334
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Posted - 2013.06.29 06:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:"This rifter cost me nothing, all the mods were looted from rats, I dont think my guns have ammo. I just tackled a dread for my fleet."
Newbees. Effective from 30 minutes old and fearless warriors, never leave station without one.
Indeed. Ignorance of the danger you're in can be the ultimate courage. There are little forms of defense better than simply not giving a ****. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
29
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Posted - 2013.06.29 08:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
If you insist upon being so precious about pixelated internet spaceships and fair fights you will never enjoy the game.
Big fish eat small fish. So go find some friends, form a massive swarm of enraged newbs and start throwing yourself recklessly at players with expensive gear. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Caliban Logistics and Storage
9436
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 09:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Leper ofBacon wrote: form a massive swarm of enraged newbs and start throwing yourself recklessly at players with expensive gear. Goonswarm, the early days.
In Eve you're a god, why have morals? |
Apherolaz
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
0
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Posted - 2013.06.29 09:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
I've lost 100% of my solo PvP encounters. I've scored a few kills flying with corp mates, and that was almost enough to keep me around, but that means the only time i can actually have fun is when my corp mates are around - which is only a fraction of the time. I spend most of my time in plexes watching a timer count down - which is about as much fun as watching paint dry. I've unsubbed but i still have 1.5 months left.
PvP does suck when you are new. It really sucks. What amuses me is when people point out how some random newbie managed to kill some random veteran using only a Tech 1 frigate, and therefore PvP is perfectly viable for all newbies.
Truth is, it's not.
Guys with more skill points and more ISK will crush you every time. That is perfectly understandable, and not entirely a fault with the game per se, but more so a by product of the game being as old as it is now. The majority of the player base are veterans and it is only fair that they should have no troubles popping newbies.
If you insist on sticking around, you are going to have to accept the fact that all you are good for is padding the stats of better players - at least until you have 6 months of PvP skill training under your belt. Otherwise, play something else - there are loads of other great games on the market that provide a level playing field. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
321
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Posted - 2013.06.29 09:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
Apherolaz wrote:PvP does suck when you are new. It really sucks. What amuses me is when people point out how some random newbie managed to kill some random veteran using only a Tech 1 frigate, and therefore PvP is perfectly viable for all newbies.
Truth is, it's not.
Look at the killmail, that newbie is tagging along with maybe 3% of the damage done. He may even luck up with a killing blow.
But more chances than not -- because he doesn't have the defense skills, let alone advanced weapons skills -- he's but cannon fodder.
The ones claiming it's easy, is like in WoW when a level 90 looks back on what he can destroy at level 90 (not at level and without the twink gear). Happens in all games, everything is simple and easy with experience. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
154
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Posted - 2013.06.29 10:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
Come on guys, it's not rocket science. Yes, it takes time to learn and not only skill points. But it isn't hard to have a blast with a young character. Zappity is only a few months old and she does fine in lowsec. Solo kills:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516218 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516220 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516221 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516222 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19437588 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19430934 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19430553 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19396642 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19390416 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19377926 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19376737 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19374626 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19362860 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19354119 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19336334 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19328222 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19286329 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19286002 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19285754 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19285432 Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
366
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Posted - 2013.06.29 10:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Happens in all games, everything is simple and easy with experience. That is the OP main problem ofc. That and his attitude.
He got overall good advice in EVE New Citizens Q&A. Ofc you can play an mmo solo. But you have to accept the fact you're doing it hardcore. Do not come to the forums complaining it is unfair. CCP Ytterbium: You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!
You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you! |
Seven Koskanaiken
Clan Steel Wolves
229
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Posted - 2013.06.29 10:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote: But when you break down the statistics, you have a logi player with 0% of the only score that matters...DPS.
EvE doesn't even break down role scores, yet there's only one score that matters (and what you'll be judged for).
Logistics player = healer. Why would I want to be judged by 0% of DPS, and not say something like this?
Someone will hopefully remind you to go back to wow. Everyone fighting to help test keep those moons it sold to that guy: make sure to put a gun on your logistics. Every single highslot spent on getting on killmails helps, thanks.
No warrior I on the market. No logi for me today, |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
567
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 10:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Eve, a Harsh universe - Says so on the box.
Fairness is relative to the largest side. |
Blade Mosh
Trax Osmerium
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 10:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
You have unrealistic expectations from your actions.
Join a pvp corp and learn. Now where did that beer go?! |
Rico Minali
The Straw Men
1288
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 10:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again.
So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Caliban Logistics and Storage
9437
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again.
So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine.
Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends.
In Eve you're a god, why have morals? |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
6760
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
this thread is delicious. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
694
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
1) life isn't fair despite politically correct fairy tales - it's strange to expect coders could make a game better than life;
2) for slightly more fair starship PvP you may want to check Star Conflict - and even in that relatively simple game you'll be unfairly beaten (a lot) once you'll reach tier2. |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
1950
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:24:00 -
[80] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS
My corp of new players killing people in t1 frigates and t1 cruisers with t1 guns would like to prove you wrong on that.
I even got older player that only ever knew missioning and mining joining corp.
http://camp.killmail.org/
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
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Dave Stark
3249
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
oh look, it's this thread again.
OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel? |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
911
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS
Dude, I don't really know if desperation or hopeless is the right word about you if you continue that route of thinking.
Being a noobie in pvp can be extremely rewarding and you don't have to be in full T2 stuff, at all, believe me if many many noobies in our organization have far more isk 1month later than I do after playing several years.
The thing you need to realize in pvp, one of the most rewarding job to do is PIN STUFF, not leave them run away, hold them for high dps fellah's to take it down. Very often older players don't do this not because it's unfunny but because it's a task where you die very often and our pods cost already more than the full fitted frigate. This prevent many of us to have fun pinning down stuff, because it's hell fun doing it.
So as a noobie, you're mainly asked to start doing this not because it's tedious or unrewarding but for many reasons including the one I just mentioned. It's the best job to do for a newbie to learn Eve pvp basics: make a perch, provide warp out points for fleet/gang, tackle stuff at the gate or in fights, get logis safe of other inties, hell so much stuff to learn and rewarding. Yes it's rewarding because if you are in a decent group you're doing one of the most important jobs, and when you do it right usually the FC or older players just shower noobies with isk, some guys will give you a million, others 10 some 1B doesn't matter in the end, all you need to get is that you're doing it fking wrong and you're wasting time trying to achieve something you will not succeed as fast as you could if you understand you need to learn basics first, not jump directly to a full T2 frigate and be top DPS.
If you really think noobies are out or excluded from pvp in Eve you're completely wrong, no other game a 1D old character can perfectly achieve the pin down of a 10 years player and offer to his team mates great kills.
Again, you're doing it really wrong and you should feel bad for posting that. Join RvsB, awesome people, good FC's, excellent training and tons of fun on coms or fighting, just stop complaining and do it god dammit !! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
1950
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:28:00 -
[83] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS My corp of new players killing people in t1 frigates and t1 cruisers with t1 guns would like to prove you wrong on that. I even got older player that only ever knew missioning and mining joining corp. http://camp.killmail.org/Even if you decided to swallow your great big crocodile tears long enough to try and join them. I won't allow a sniffling little cry baby like you to join anyway. Even If you had the joining fee. You got the wrong attitude for pvp.
Quoting myself on a new page incase you missed it.
Suck it up... then try again, but change the attitude first. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Azurae
South West Trading
77
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:28:00 -
[84] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun
would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so...
you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates... |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
1950
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
Azurae wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so... you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates...
You to... Your kind does not help.
A 19 day old pilot will kill a guy in a battleship. All he needs is the understanding how to handle himself in that situation. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
flakeys
Interstellar Corporation of Science and Technology Interstellar Confederation
1202
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner.
PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself. yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over
I'll give you a short eve pvp lesson:
First you are young you are gonna complain the older guys get you ... Then you are older you are gonna complain you get 3 or 5 against you.... Then you decide to do a roam with 5 friends and get hotdropped by capitals... Then you decide to join a big null Alliance , get into a war and you complain the other guy outnumbeers you 5 to 1.... Then you decide to join the biggest blob around , the CFC , get into a war and complain because the smaller guy you decided to attack actually get's people helping him making the odds more even..
In short eve pvp is like fitting your ship for pvp.When you fit a disruptor you should have taken a scrambler , if you take a sensor booster you should have taken a webifier , when you fly purifiers you should have taken a drake and when you fly a drake you shoulld have taken a sabre .....
Eve pvp rarely is fun , it is mostly an un-even fight and 90% of the time it's either you blobbing out the enemy making it boring as hell or the enemy blobbing the **** out of you making it soooooooooo unfair.
HOWEVER , the verry rare 1vs1 you will get and you come out as the winner by a verry thin margin is THE BEST thing any game can offer you out there.It's like being a father , most of the times your kids will suck the blood right out of you , but the few times they are behaving like angels makes it the best thing in the world to be a dad.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
959
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters. In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... |
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
5824
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 11:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
Apherolaz wrote: Guys with more skill points and more ISK will crush you every time.
If you insist on sticking around, you are going to have to accept the fact that all you are good for is padding the stats of better players - at least until you have 6 months of PvP skill training under your belt.
Not true. The KB's are filled with proof on that one.
Guys with more skill points and ISK will NOT crush you every time. I've gone solo against pilots 1-2 years older than me and won when we were both in similar ships. I'm just one pilot. My Ceo's first kill was against a player who was over a year older than him and he won. I have many similar stories and so do MANY of the players in Eve.
Wherever you think you got your stats and timeframe of what makes a successful PvPer is pretty whack.
I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken? |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
162
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:46:00 -
[89] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.
Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.
Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.
THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Yes and no. A one month old player has only a very small chance against a highly skilled and talented PvPer one on one. On the other hand,
Not to long ago a very strong/skilled pirate in a professional Pirate/PvP Alliance wardec a Highsec Corp filled with new players. This Pirate was getting about 500 kills a month with very few losses, so they are good. But they did write about this one loss they experienced against this new player mining Corp. It seem the pirate had attacked two of the miners who were out in combat ships and had drained their cap and was working through their armor when a third member of that Corp showed up. The Pirate lost their ship.
Adapt. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Clan Steel Wolves
229
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:58:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Rico Minali wrote:A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again.
So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine. Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends.
This is true. M+ís sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo. The devil knows more because he is older, rather than for being the devil. |
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