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Kraal Utrecht
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
10
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Posted - 2013.07.01 05:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Inokuma Yawara wrote: ^^^^^ This.
I work at a hospital in Los Angeles (not in Syberia). They depend on WinXP. All of the stuff they do on XP is, of course, critical. But I don't know how many of the software will be able to run on Win7 or Win8. When Microsucks stops supporting WinXP. I wonder what will happen here...?
I have a feeling that the answer is that very little of the software critical to this hospital's operations is compatible with Win7/8, or there would have already been partial roll-outs with tests and tweaks in preparation for a full OS upgrade-roll-out for the whole hospital. We have people helping us to upgrade our core software, but on WinXP. They're actually developing it for us ON WinXP.... So, I don't know if they're even thinking of Win7. It's not my area to worry over that, but.... That can't be good.
However, the point I'm trying to make is that businesses everywhere, large and small, are reluctant to leave WinXP for Win7, and much less for Win8 (Lose8).
+1
It is all over the world that some specialized applications (especially in healthcare, but not only) is written for XP and does not work on win7. And we are not talking about some app for few hundred euro/dollars, but about several thousand. No one will just like that for free rewrite it to make it work with win7... Even if app would cost few hundred dollars/euro... whole hassle with "fixing what is not broken" is just unnecessary...
But still... popularity of Windows as a household computer system was ... I dare to assume ... in 99% due to its outstanding capabilities of running games. Same with fast developement of computer components. ;) |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
335
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Posted - 2013.07.01 05:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Setaceous wrote:MS doesn't really care, we're paying them extra for XP downgrade licences on 10,000+ PCs.
And that folks is why WoW is also #1 -- old, but runs on almost anything. The AOL of the 21st century.
Which is why these older MMOs are really cautious updating their game (plus PC gaming -- at least currently -- is declining and that's less new players to justify it).
But like there's tech companies that support these businesses that can't afford to update their custom software (legal office spent $50,000 on their internal file system...their own Library of Congress...to update today would sink a small legal office [and you can't outsource it to a foreign country like India or Russia]), there will be options for them. One is VM and independent of even MS.
For the rest of players, especially gamers, you have to update eventually. The game companies have to at least stay relevant, and will slowly close support on older operating systems to do so. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
94
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Posted - 2013.07.01 06:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Pewty McPew wrote:... and about 2% Win 8 Those poor souls...
^2 cubed....
it's probably a lost cause though. Our computers will not be "ours" anymore, nor will there be any internet that is even remotely like a common carrier.
All operating systems will be walled gardens filled with App makers kowtowing to ISP (incidently Entertainment media providors) and opperating sytems providers.. who lease you access to their operating systems via T.o.S like you must log into "the cloud" and certify who you are at all times and that they own the ip that you create on "their" platform etc.
That's windows 8, bringing the iphone and google + "our way or the highway" to our pcs |
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
571
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Posted - 2013.07.01 08:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sure is pretty here in the walled garden. Join usssssssssssssss |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
600
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Posted - 2013.07.01 09:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Inokuma Yawara wrote: I work at a hospital in Los Angeles (not in Syberia). They depend on WinXP. All of the stuff they do on XP is, of course, critical. But I don't know how many of the software will be able to run on Win7 or Win8. When Microsucks stops supporting WinXP. I wonder what will happen here...?
I have a feeling that the answer is that very little of the software critical to this hospital's operations is compatible with Win7/8, or there would have already been partial roll-outs with tests and tweaks in preparation for a full OS upgrade-roll-out for the whole hospital. We have people helping us to upgrade our core software, but on WinXP. They're actually developing it for us ON WinXP.... So, I don't know if they're even thinking of Win7. It's not my area to worry over that, but.... That can't be good.
However, the point I'm trying to make is that businesses everywhere, large and small, are reluctant to leave WinXP for Win7, and much less for Win8 (Lose8).
So it's not actually relevant to the discussion unless you play eve on said computer. And since you work in a hospital.. I sure hope not... |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
140
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Posted - 2013.07.01 12:08:00 -
[66] - Quote
who in the hell is using windows xp anymore anyways |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
273
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Posted - 2013.07.01 12:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
Setaceous wrote:Tippia wrote:Setaceous wrote:You've had five additional years (XP had a 10 year lifetime originally) to get your code up to scratch. Who's at fault here? Fifteen years, huh? This just in: Microsoft patents time travel and releases Win XP two years ahead of its predecessor! Meh, brain stall on my part. Point still stands if you use the correct timeframe. XP support was extended so companies could sort their **** out. Hell, My company is one of them, we're still struggling to update old software that was written for NT4. MS doesn't really care, we're paying them extra for XP downgrade licences on 10,000+ PCs.
I wouldn't mind if things were backward compatible or if MS decided to make a development environment which works.
Anyway, to demonstrate the lack of backward compatability; remember how MS told us that Active-X in browsers were the the future and that we'd all need IE-6. Lots of companies went ahead with this Active-X development and it worked well, except that the badgertwats started to break the 'security'. So another good technology lost.
The thing is that there's a lot of applications out there which uses these Active-X controls. I have a client who is a major travel agency and they need to run IE-6 because one of their suppliers has only Active-X controls on their site. It's not a case of my client having to 'fix' their code because it's not their code.
And do their supplier care less? No. They are a national railway and which have a monopoly and they say "if you want to buy our tickets wholesale on-line then you seen IE-6"
And guess where IE-6 isn't able to run any more?
As for the genius who tells me that I had 15 year to rewrite all my code. Yes, in Real Life it doesn't work like that. There wasn't a platform which I could test my code on and what would I rewrite my code for.
It's like saying that I have 80,000 lines of code running on my Windows 8 machine and I had better start rewriting it with all those tools available for Windows 9. And of course, in the years it would take me to rewrite everything that means then I couldn't expand on my own applications.
And why update when clearly it runs six times slower on the new My Little Pony Windows? |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
273
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Posted - 2013.07.01 12:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
We've had people mention law firms running NT4 and the Los Angeles hospital running XP.
I don't know where that law firm is but if it were in London then I may have had a hand in intalling the systems, the document management software and the like. NT4 simply worked and it wasn't glamourous - it didn't run games too well and the Plug an Play tried to work.
But for business machines it was brillant and there is still no case for office administration to use anything else. Just because it's old doesn't mean that it has to be dumped. The only reason wjy MS want us to change to something new and shiny is to pay their coders. But for 99% of office life NT4 (or rather NT4.1) is more than adequate.
From that time of the NT world I bought my home office printer; that's a workhorse of an HP4000 printer. Still one of the best printers around and, no it doesn't have network capability (it does now with a dongle) and it was built before USB was heard of But is that a reason to change? No.
The LA hospital is similar to the NHS here in the UK. A lot of it runs on XP and it runs well.
My mate runs a home recording studio and he's got his stuff running through an XP machine and with the devices on firewire. Yes, he could run on Windows 7 but, guess what, it's runs better and faster on XP. This is another problem we're finding these days; the hardware is being dumbed down too. Firewire is nigh on impossible to find these days but it's better, far better, than USB.
This is the way that the worls works; go and use some crufty new piece of hardware but it's new and therefore it's "better" even though the specs tell you otherwise. But the mp3 generation will follow bleating like sheep. A good example are these new -ú200 headphones endorsed by an R&B 'musician' and the quality is crap. But who cares? It sells. It's new and it's shiny. so we must folllow bleating to downgrade.
Should I also downgrade my music collection from .flac to .mp3 because it's the thing to do? No. .flac is far superior and the same argument goes with XP/Win 7.
Win 7 is fine for playing game, it's fine for running off the shelf apps as if it were an uber-tablet for actually 'doing stuff' it's poor and as my mate testifies it's hopeless for proper music production. My step daughter, a musician*, living in the Republic of Yorkshire is negotiating a record contract now and she does her own home recording so it's fair to say that she knows a little about music as she's a singer/songwirter - guess what operating system she uses to record her music and to drive her mixing desk? Yes XP with Firewire.
(* a musician - not a DJ)
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1596
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Posted - 2013.07.01 13:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
Firewire may have some benefits over USB. It also has some significant downsides. Such as DMA attacks (I'll admit, they require physical access. which generally means the machine is compromised anyway.)
Yes, XP is better for some tasks, because of hardware or software requirements.
Those aren't /general/ requirements however. There are few instances where this would affect the general home user. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
226
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Interesting, I did not know that. And this was 4 years ago?!? How can they claim they still support XP? |
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Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
273
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
Exactly.
So what difference then will this End Of Life incident have on us, other than having our machines no longer reboot in the middle of an overnight run despite the Do Not Download Updates checked?
Me, for one, I am looking forward to no more updates. |
xarjin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Interesting, I did not know that. And this was 4 years ago?!? How can they claim they still support XP?
Mainstream "retail" support for windows xp ended 4? years ago. The only support they currently offer is the "Extended" support for businesses. The extended business support ends next April.
Any home user still using Windows XP essentially has been "drinking and eating spoiled food" several years past the expiration date. |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
276
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
xarjin wrote:
Any home user still using Windows XP essentially has been "drinking and eating spoiled food" several years past the expiration date.
I love out of date stuff. The local supermarket puts mature Cheddar cheese onto the Get Rid Quick shelving because, er, it may go off.
I am still waiting for them to put the 'out of date' port on there... |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
xarjin wrote:Karak Terrel wrote:Interesting, I did not know that. And this was 4 years ago?!? How can they claim they still support XP? Mainstream "retail" support for windows xp ended 4? years ago. The only support they currently offer is the "Extended" support for businesses. The extended business support ends next April. Any home user still using Windows XP essentially has been "drinking and eating spoiled food" several years past the expiration date.
"Mainstream" support ended on 14.4.2009. That means no new features (Service Packs).
"Extended" ends on 8.4.2014. Only way to get support for Windows XP after this date is to pay, pay a lot of money. So pretty much all home users, small/medium sized businesses will be left behind if they don't want to upgrade. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
917
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Pewty McPew wrote:XP rocks fully 80%+ of my corporate customers sill run XP 18% Win 7 and about 2% Win 8
Quite sure those 80% are the ones that most probably will moan and make their loud mouths when something bad happens to them, it's not XP fault, it's the other people...
Yet those ones will have to get over their bitterness and arrogance at some point or stay in their middle age stuff claiming they're special snowflakes. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4327
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
Yes, many businesses still use XP. Primarily because many businesses still haven't learned how necessary it is to have an adequate IT budget. So they get further and further behind where they need to be until it becomes a nightmare to catch up.
This applies equally to both small and large business the world over. Eventually they will be forced to bite the bullet and start treating their computing needs with the respect it deserves. To do otherwise can do a company significant harm, and is very short sighted.
For us however the situation is much simpler.
We are gamers, and that "should" mean that we understand that we must have at least half way up to date hardware and software to be able to continue to game on our PCs.
I fully understand that everyone is on a budget, but if you game that budget needs to include OS and hardware upgrades on a semi-regular basis... at least once or twice a decade. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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