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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
426
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Posted - 2013.07.06 20:37:00 -
[991] - Quote
Solutio Letum wrote:Its the capital drivers fault, he could of asked someone in local to help him for some money, just start a dual with the one who you gave the money, web the capital ship to hell and warp off after you can align.
I think the question is application of mechanics versus preventive maintenance of meta gaming.
But yes, the freighter pilot was stupid. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
426
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Posted - 2013.07.06 20:42:00 -
[992] - Quote
So I guess I survived that gank lol.
Have a good weekend folks. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 20:59:00 -
[993] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15098
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:07:00 -
[994] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:The aggression mechanics for freighters are exactly the same as they are for any other ship. Hope this helps I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first. Both will be flying a freighter. If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right. What's your side of the wager? But he's not lying and we've been over this again and again. Just because a freighter CANNOT aggress, doesn't exclude it from the aggression timer. Once the freighter is aggressed, it gets the timer. The timer treats the freighter just like every other ship, in this regard.
At this point, I'm starting to believe your deliberately missing the point of this mechanic and it's application.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:15:00 -
[995] - Quote
I dont disagree that a freightor should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldnt get a timer . its like opening te door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station . How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1483
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:23:00 -
[996] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.
Both will be flying a freighter.
If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.
What's your side of the wager?
My side of the wager is that I am right and you don't understand the mechanics. You're misunderstanding what the time means - it does not mean "I pulled the trigger on someone else" it means "I was involved in an act of aggression in some way" - that includes being on the receiving end
hope this helps
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1483
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:25:00 -
[997] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .
The implication in your post is that a freighter, in highsec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves
Hope this helps. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15098
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:31:00 -
[998] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station . It was an intended mechanic and freighters are not and should not be exempt.
Just because you don't like the idea of a random noob ship, or more likely don't know the connection of the pilot flying it and why he's agressed, does mean any exploit doors have been opened. It means the players are using the mechanics of the game, how they were meant to be used in this sandbox. It also does not render freighters useless, in all but processing and in system station movements.
Plus I would like to know exactly how you could put in place a mechanic, that could differentiate between who is and who isn't eligible to shoot a freighter tbh. Without breaking the game. (Hint: Everyone is eligible)
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:36:00 -
[999] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station . The implication in your post is that a freighter, in high sec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves Hope this helps.
Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .
If CCP were to stand behind a gank identical to this one then basically there saying to all their subscribers/gamers if you fly a freighter or ever will fly one F*** U (middle finger up) and Good Luck to you Brave Pilot .
And i don't think CCP would ever say that to there Subscribers/Gamers How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:40:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station . The implication in your post is that a freighter, in high sec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves Hope this helps. Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .
here is the quote again:
Quote: * PVP flags CAN be created and further extended after log-off even if the owner did not have a PVP flag at the time of disconnect.. If Char A logs off in space (with or without a PVP flag), and then char B attacks A, then A will get a PVP flag. Char A's ship will then remain in space for as long as that PVP flag exists. These changes should ensure that unavoidable disconnects (eg caused by network problems) aren't massively penalising, whilst ensuring that manually killing the client to avoid PVP is never a viable strategy.
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Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:44:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:45:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back
the freighter still has a player piloting it |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:47:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.
Which this is all speculation at the moment as CCP has still not even acknowledged the petition. Probably wont either for another week or two.
My friend had a petition in for 10 days to retrieve his hacked account before the petition was ever responded to so i figure this one is probably lower on the totem pole than one like that as it should be.
Get them ISD's off SISI and put em to work on petitions for a month get the petition backlog caught up :) How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15098
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:50:00 -
[1004] - Quote
You do know what PvP stands for, right?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:52:00 -
[1005] - Quote
if csaas and pocos could be disappeared from space i would support giving them timers as well |
Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9663
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:52:00 -
[1006] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Keyword here is PVP. Player v Player, unless the freighter was being flown by a bot it's still PvP
Why shouldn't we be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3282
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:54:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.
Both will be flying a freighter.
If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.
What's your side of the wager?
You won't gain an agression timer unless they are shot at by another player. Freighters are already special in this regard (due to being unable to fit offensive weaponry) but you, for some unknown reason, think they should be even more special. Good luck on spending several hours later proving exactly what we've been telling you though.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3282
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:57:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.
For us to be given the opportunity to fail at a suicide gank, the potential victim has already made several failures. Thanks for failing at flying a freighter & giving us the opportunity to suicide gank you.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:06:00 -
[1009] - Quote
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.
1 Its always fun to kill **** 2 you get paid for it
but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****
Jedijed has 9 days to go before his Forum Ban is over :) How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3282
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:12:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.
1 Its always fun to kill **** 2 you get paid for it
but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****
If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
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Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2013.07.06 22:14:00 -
[1011] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Callyuk wrote:You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.
1 Its always fun to kill **** 2 you get paid for it
but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this **** If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?
I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3590
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:19:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .
Where does anything from CCP say that a Freighter in HS is not a valid target?
Freighters have 150-200k EHP. A T1 Hauler tops out around 50k EHP. How does bumping a freighter make it less expensive to gank than a T1 Hauler (the only logical way to claim that it's more dangerous to fly in HS)? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2013.07.06 22:21:00 -
[1013] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Callyuk wrote:I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station . Where does anything from CCP say that a Freighter in HS is not a valid target? Freighters have 150-200k EHP. A T1 Hauler tops out around 50k EHP. How does bumping a freighter make it less expensive to gank than a T1 Hauler (the only logical way to claim that it's more dangerous to fly in HS)?
Have it your way then
A freighter is more dangerous to fly around in high sec with than a t1 hauler How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1484
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:25:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.
Just because it cant shoot back doesn't mean it's not PVP. It's pretty one sided, sure, but it's valid pvp. Deal with it. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
88
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Posted - 2013.07.06 22:28:00 -
[1015] - Quote
I dunno about using the word exploit. But it is rather dumb from a role play or logic/realism point of view. The gankers are certainly gaming the system. I don't think its unfair to "require" freighters to have an escort or two if they want safety though. They are logical targets for pirates. And I assume hauling that much junk at one time can amount to some nice profits. Or at least a lot of time saved. Trade offs.
I'm more interested in Tornados ganking Tengus that are travelling gate to gate. How does this work? Does the Tengu need to be AFK at a gate or something stupid? Tengus align pretty quickly... do the Tornados grab them while they are warping off, or as they are landing? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3590
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:28:00 -
[1016] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .
If CCP were to stand behind a gank identical to this one then basically there saying to all their subscribers/gamers if you fly a freighter or ever will fly one F*** U (middle finger up) and Good Luck to you Brave Pilot .
And i don't think CCP would ever say that to there Subscribers/Gamers
Why is using one fleet composition to kill a Freighter any more or less valid that any other fleet composition?
The intent of the flagging change was to prevent logging off from being a valid means of escape from combat for anyone. Why should Freighters be special?
CCP was saying (with changes that are now almost 2 years old) "there are plenty of ways to keep your ship safe. Abusing the logoff mechanics is no longer one of them."
Webbing alt/Friend (the guys trapping you have friends, why should you be able to easily counter them solo?) Scouts Common Sense (don't be worth ganking) Counterbumps and Webs Ganking the bump ships (counters are generally not free. Stop whining that killing your attackers is going to cost you something) Ganking/EWARing the gank ships Logging/Ejecting/Self Destructing (All stop the bumpers from bumping *you* at the likely cost of your ship) Safe-Logoff before they aggro (i.e. taking advantage of their mistakes as they try to take advantage of yours) and so on... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3282
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:29:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Callyuk wrote:You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.
1 Its always fun to kill **** 2 you get paid for it
but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this **** If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes? I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF Our Logs Show Nothing
Nope. It's been recorded many times before & nothing changes because there is no exploiting going on, but please do keep providing us with wonderful tears, this is half the reason we do it.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3590
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:29:00 -
[1018] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Have it your way then
A freighter is more dangerous to fly around in high sec with than a t1 hauler
How in the world do you come to that conclusion?
How is it cheaper to gank a Freighter than a T1 Hauler, or what other metric for "dangerous" are you using? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:31:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Callyuk wrote:You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.
1 Its always fun to kill **** 2 you get paid for it
but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this **** If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes? I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF Our Logs Show Nothing
How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25 Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1484
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:33:00 -
[1020] - Quote
I'll agree it's kind of dumb from a "roleplay" kind of perspective, but it's a necessary evil - prior to the recent changes, high ehp ships, like capitals and freighters, were manually killing the client to save themselves. That's really bad for a bunch of reasons, and from a role play perspective is also really dumb.
Obviously people who log off "properly" and not as a way to save themselves shouldn't be penalised, and for that theres safe log offs.
There's a few unfortunate situations where maybe disconnects or whatever leave players vulnerable through no fault of their own, but there's always going to be some edge case where something undesirable happens. The system is currently as good as it can be right now, I think |
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