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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Legion40k
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL Circle-Of-Two
14
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:30:00 -
[151] - Quote
IMO, Multiple Targeting is gonna get confused with Multitasking a bit..maybe a little differently worded such as Target Management and Adv. Target Management.
And Spaceship Piloting sounds 'meh' compared to Spaceship Command > why change this?
Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand
Armor Honeycombing..... > Armor Plating Compensation/Efficiency??? im unsure on this one, it's just weird to begin with
thats about it really :s |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1976
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:35:00 -
[152] - Quote
Legion40k wrote:Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand Guided Missile Precision -> Detonation Radius Control Target Navigation Prediction ->Detonation Velocity Control |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
194
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:44:00 -
[153] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Legion40k wrote:Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand Guided Missile Precision -> Detonation Radius Control Target Navigation Prediction ->Detonation Velocity Control Missile Projection -> Missile Velocity Control Missile Bombardment -> Missile Flight Time Control Warhead Upgrades -> Detonation Damage Yield While it is new player friendly it breaks sci-fi game immersion at the same time imo. Putting skill effects into names (ex. suggested CPU management / PG management) will make game bland. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
242
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:45:00 -
[154] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Isara Aulx-Gao wrote:Whoa never change a running system. why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills?? This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names.
Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can-¦t fly a Titan in 5 Days.
NO Mainstream **** Little Dragon Khamez wrote:More dumbing down it seems. You asked for advice about certificates and come back with this **** when no one to my knowledge has ever complained about the skill names or descriptions.
I do not want eve to be welcoming and easy to understand for noobs. The fact that it is hard to understand and requires some intellect is where we the community get our quality control from.
This is not hello ******* kitty online. The day it starts to resemble it is the day you will lose your hardcore player base. We eve players are a cut above the players of other mmos, were all elite players; even the noobs that decide to stick with eve because it's unique and beautiful and hard to master. Next time just type: SBVP (Standard Bitter Vet Post)
Thanks for trolling and contributing absolutely nothing to the debate. +1 Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:45:00 -
[155] - Quote
First off I like the new changes!
but here is a few remarks
* SpaceShip Piloting sounds wrong ... Spaceship Command just sounds better and is i think still better name?
* Why not rename biology that skill name is weird?
* PI skills i would still recomend that they are keep separated (its easer to find them that way)
* im not convinced that putting subsystem in to spaceship piloting ... it sounds good but that group is already LARGE and putting in an additional 20 skills in it isn't making it bigger instead I suggest that you move the strategic cruiser skills to the Subsystem group and renaming it to something better.
* Electronic / Mecanical/ are the name change really necessary ?
*How about skill stats, now that the skills get moved around are they going to get there stats (int,Per,Wis, etc) updated to be same in the entire group?
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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
126
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:58:00 -
[156] - Quote
Just stopping by to pitch in:
Please keep Spaceship Command. We don't actually _pilot_ a ship, except from maybe a frigate. We command it / the crew to "warp to", "align" and they make it so. That's commanding a spaceship! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
242
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:02:00 -
[157] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:
- Armor - Seems good, but how about renaming it "Armor and Hull Systems".
- Electronic System - How about renaming it "Electronic Systems" and leaving the "Electronics" skill alone. Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration seems out of place here; put all 3 reconfig skills into "Engineering Systems" see below.
- Engineering - How about renaming it "Engineering Systems" and leaving the Engineering skill alone.
- Missiles - How about renaming it "Missile Weapon Systems".
- Neural Enhancement - I like!
- Production - How about renaming it "Manufacturing". One produces movies, not spaceships.
- Resource Processing - How about renaming it "Material Processing"
- Ship Modification - I don't like subsystems being in this group.
- Scanning - How about renaming it "Exploration". I don't like the planet skills moving here; keep them on their own, or move them into manufacturing (see above).
- Science - How about renaming it "Research" or "Research and Technology".
- Shields - How about renaming it "Shield Systems"
- Spaceship Piloting - PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T RENAME IT THIS!
- Targeting - How about renaming it "Targeting Systems".
I'd be tempted to rename "Gunnery" group to "Turret Weapon Systems". Note the common usage of the word "Systems" throughout.
+1 anything that keeps the sci fi flavour is a good thing. Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Mwaheed S0n
Be Right Back Ltd
1
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
I also vote for keeping Spaceship Command.
I also cringe at seeing the Planetary Interaction skills mixed across groups even though two of them are technically "scanning" skills, but they really should stay in their own group.
+1 to Tau Cabalander's suggestions for naming schemes and placement as well.
o7 |
anishamora
Atelierele Grivita
26
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:09:00 -
[159] - Quote
I'll add what most people already pointed out, maybe CPP will get the drift:
- "Spaceship Piloting" is unanimously considered gay. We understand that you don't want to give us a crew per-se, but we're still spaceship commanders goddamnit!
- PI stuff should remain in its own group especially if at some point (hopefully) you'll expand more on this area
- Subsystems should remain in their own group, newb-friendliness is not a good enough reason, T3 stuff is not newb stuff.
- Electronics as "CPU management" is bad and doesn't make any sense anymore as pre-requisite for several skills.
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Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
54
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:16:00 -
[160] - Quote
For most of the skill groups, the group seemed to be named after a single base skill that was a pre-req for most of the other skills in the group. While there is some opportunity for confusion, this always made perfect sense to me. So I'm not in favour of general renaming of these base skills or the groups.
That said, there's certainly room to split out some of the skills into new groups. Electronic Warfare and Jury Rigging come to mind.
I'd also support splitting the R&D "science" skills out from the rest, maybe under "Research" since that seems to be a base skill for most of them. Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
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Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Yulai Federation
105
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:27:00 -
[161] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Spaceship Piloting: is the old Spaceship Command group, no change except with the name.
That's ... well, i can't find a PC word for it. Just name it "Pony Riding" if you're going to change the current name, which is absolutely okey as it is.
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joan scholar
Cripples Bastards and Broken Dreams
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:28:00 -
[162] - Quote
changing the names is not gonna help. the whole skill tree system needs a overhaul.
the current system is old and outdated and a hindrance for new players.
if you really want to "clean up" skills revamp the whole system. something like Dust514 skills tree would be much better and less confusing. skill trees in any game should really have a hierarchy system. you should not have to search a module to see which skill you need to train for it.
this looks so much better IMO, now i dont mean it should look exactly the same because this was designed for controllers in mind.
Dust 514 Skill Tree
yeah its a lot of work to re design a UI but if you really want to do it, do it right the first time.
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Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
19
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:35:00 -
[163] - Quote
Looks good.
When I first started it was pretty hard working everything out. This doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it better |
Vaihto Ehto
20
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:41:00 -
[164] - Quote
Please don't change Spaceship Command to Spaceship Piloting. I want to manly 'command' my internet spaceships not 'pilot' them like a little girl. Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums? |
Creepy Brutor
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:00:00 -
[165] - Quote
I like it all apart from "spaceship piloting" |
Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:06:00 -
[166] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:i dont know about weapon upgrades and AWU in engineering... while the latter might be placed rightly there, the former governs wether you can use dmg-mods or not, which is to me tightly connected to guns and the gunnery path.
You could make the same arument that Weapon Upgrades should be in the Missiles group. You need Gravitics for Warp disruption field generators, should that be in Electronic Systems? And so on. But their primary function is as fitting skills, so that's why the CSM agreed they should go into the "Engineering" group. The CSM saw these stupid ******* names and agreed? wow you guys are even worse then the last bunch. |
thee lous3
Bite Me inc Bitten.
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:29:00 -
[167] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:marVLs wrote:Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better I'm with this guy. "Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.
It's not even limp wristed. Maybe I'm incorrect, but capsuleers aren't even pilots. Sure, they would know how to pilot the ship, but I've always imagined them in more of a admiral's role; making Spaceship Command more suitable.
Think aircraft carrier top dog, rather than commercial aircraft captain. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny The Kadeshi
136
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:31:00 -
[168] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:i dont know about weapon upgrades and AWU in engineering... while the latter might be placed rightly there, the former governs wether you can use dmg-mods or not, which is to me tightly connected to guns and the gunnery path.
You could make the same arument that Weapon Upgrades should be in the Missiles group. You need Gravitics for Warp disruption field generators, should that be in Electronic Systems? And so on. But their primary function is as fitting skills, so that's why the CSM agreed they should go into the "Engineering" group.
if you had quoted my complete post you may have seen that i recognised BCUs belonging to missiles. i see were these changes are coming from and they make sense. somewhat. but renaming is a tricky thing and i sincerely want to avoid a naming scheme as the TEST dude on page 7 or 8 (i refuse to quote it...) suggested. accessibility for new players is all good but imho it is desirable to retain some sci-fi flavour. quirky names included.
as well: please keep spaceship command
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Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
7405
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:31:00 -
[169] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better this You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Chauvelleir
420 Enterprises. Universal Paranoia Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:35:00 -
[170] - Quote
Seriously, you're spending time on this?
My thoughts,
Keep spaceship command
Agree with your other renaming proposals
Keep PI skills together
And whatever you do with the categories for goodness sake implement something like eve-mon within the client
The biggest barrier to new players is a lack of a skill planning system unless they download another program and spend time learning to use it as well as getting to grips with the api system, this is time that the could be spending in your client getting a feel for eve and being immersed in the game.
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Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:49:00 -
[171] - Quote
My thoughts on the matter:
- I'm not sure if renaming for the sake of simplicity is good. Opening a skill's description, then reading what it does makes the skill system seem more in-depth than if you simply go through a group and see "Tracking efficiency", "CPU management", "Multiple Targeting".
- Really, is it that much effort to read the description of a skill? When I started playing and created my first skill plan, I took the time to go through the list of all skills in EVEMon and read up on what they do. It may not be in-game, but doing so was still a tremendous sense of discovery for me. I feel like scrolling down a list and knowing what each skill does without clicking on it would've made this experience a lot more bland.
- In other words, learning what all the different skills do is simply another "road block", if you may, that EVE throws at you, and overcoming that block will give a new player a sense of gratification and knowledge. I feel like oversimplifying skill names would really dampen this effect a lot.
- Also, skill names give EVE a certain sci-fi "feel". I understand that you feel the need to make them more understandable, but hope that, if you really feel you need to go through with these changes, they could at least be achieved without any skills losing their distinctive names for a generic "X management" or "X efficiency".
On to singular changes:
- "Multiple Targeting" seems odd. "Target Management" is more in line with what the error message states ("You are already managing X targets, as many as you have the skill to.")
- "Spaceship Piloting" sounds a lot less awesome than "Spaceship Command". We're commanders of the ship, not merely pilots. I'd strongly prefer if you kept the old name.
- Subsystems should stay their own separate group. This makes it easier to grasp that these are the skills you will lose SP in if you die in a T3 ship.
- I prefer "MIssile Launcher Operation" over "Missies". They both obviously state what they are, and, well, the former just sounds better to me.
- I agree with you that "Nanite Control" is indeed confusing. Also, "Neurotoxin Control" does not really lose any of its "sci-fi feel". This is a change I can definitely get behind.
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Number One Everything
Icanhazcheezburger
4
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:52:00 -
[172] - Quote
If its fine, don't fix it. Spaceship Command vs piloting is a no-brainer. Leave it as command. It sounds better, and if someone is too stupid to know that spaceship command means piloting a ship, they are too stupid to play EVE.
Splitting up PI to the four corners is the exact opposite of the intent of this cleanup. Leave it alone!
I agree for the most part with the skills being split up based on their primary/secondary attributes. Yes, there are a few variations within them now, but anyone that's played EVE for 6 months should have most of the groups memorized based on the group its in. Scattering skills from their attributes won't make it easier, it will just make people rely even more than they do already on 3rd party tools like EVEmon.
Lastly, and for me, the most important thing, is that no skill attributes are changed. I expect after this patch all the attributes for all the skills will be the same as they have been for years, otherwise 1.1 better come with a bonus remap. Many people, myself included, have year long plans.
Off topic, maybe remaps could be changed to 6 months instead of a year? A lot of recent changes to EVE have tried to make it easier to use, and more flexible. Lowering the remap timer to 6 months isn't game breaking, but it gives twice the flexibility as we have now. |
sytaqe violacea
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:05:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:RENAMING SKILLS This is done in an effort to reduce confusion between the skill names themselves and the groups they belong to. Usually, a group name is to be as generic as possible since it usually contains more than just a single theme. On the contrary, Skill names need to be as specific as possible to let players know what effects they have without having to read their description.
- Electronics: has been renamed to GÇ£CPU managementGÇ¥ not to conflict with group names and be more explicit at what the skill actually does.
- Engineering: has been renamed GÇ£Power Grid managementGÇ¥ not to conflict with group names and be more explicit at what the skill actually does.
- Targeting: for the same reasons as above, this skill has been renamed "Multiple Targeting".
- Multitasking: has been renamed "Advanced Multiple Targeting" for the same reasons as above.
- Nanite Control: has been renamed "Neurotoxin Control" to make it clearer it's a booster related skill and not something tied with overheading (nanite repair paste comes to mind).
I'm against this.
When I was a newbie, I could't understand what "(1x)" imply. But I could realize that Engineering skill is basic skill of Engineering group, that Electronics skill is basic skill of Electronics group, owing to their name. Then I started learning the shape of skill tree with clicking "show info" again and again. When this idea are executed, I doubt that new player can identify "CPU management" as a basic skill of Electronics, identify "Power Grid management" as a basic skill of Engineering. I think this change will confuse new player.
Those change should be fixed like this:
Electronics has been renamed to "Basic Electronics" Engineering has been renamed to "Basic Engineering" Targeting has been renamed to "Elementary Targeting"
Skill is not stand-alone. It's a part of tree. |
gramafon
Sacred Temple Darkness of Despair
3
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
Can you please make sorting not alphabetically ! ! !
From smaller to bigger class of "pvp" ships, then
For example, Spaceship command group:
{general skills for T1 ships and ORE}: - Spaceship command - Advanced spaceship command - Capital ships - Mining frigate - Mining barge - Exhumers - ORE Industrial - Industrial command ships
{Racial skills}
- Minmatar frigates - Minmatar destroyers - Minmatar cruisers - Minmatar strategic cruisers - Minmatar battlecruisers - Minmatar battleships - Minmatar dreadnoughts - Minmatar carriers - Minmatar titan - Minmatar Industrial ships - Minmatar freighter {repeat this for all races)
{General skills for T2 ships, from smaller to bigger}
- Interceptors - Electronic attack frigates - Assault frigates - Covert ops
- Heavy assault cruisers - Heavy Interdiction cruisers - Recon ships - Logistics - Transport ships
- Marauders - Black Ops
{maybe T2 minig barges should be in this group}
Beause current sorting is very difficult for new players. I think they should see ships skills as tree, as in EVEmon, and this could be perfect if you want to take your time in skills |
Aijle Mijleroff
Infernal laboratory Infernal Octopus
25
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:20:00 -
[175] - Quote
CCP spends time on a completely idiotic things pretending to work! Maybe you already start working on really pressing problems?
PS waiting for new bugs..... |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
59
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 10:26:00 -
[176] - Quote
Does this mean you will also rename all the related hardwirings so that the EE-family will now be CU- or something, EG- becomes PG- and so on? |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
6832
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 10:34:00 -
[177] - Quote
Talk about dumbing it down CCP,
the only one I agree with is the Neurotoxin Control skill, that was badly named on your part, the rest, well, they were fine. |
Iq Cadaen
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
32
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:38:00 -
[178] - Quote
Some pretty bad Engrish in there. Some suggestions for improvement:
- "Multiple Targeting" sounds ridiculous, change to "Multi-Targeting" and "Advanced Multi-Targeting".
- "Electronic System" group should be "Electronic Systems" or, even better, "Electronic Warfare [Systems]".
- "Missiles" might be better as "Missile Systems" or just keep it as is.
- "Shields" and "Armor" to "Shield Systems" and "Armor Systems".
- "Spaceship Piloting" should just stay "Spaceship Command", there's just no way "Piloting" would sound good there.
- "Targeting" to "Sensors & Targeting"
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OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
60
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:47:00 -
[179] - Quote
Why? Just tell me why? There's a lot of more necesare and utile things that need to be fixed. What should i presume now? That CCP has a such lack of activity that they started to think renaming skills is actually work, and does benefit somehow the game? It worked fine, and it also works fine in this very moment when i write this. Noone complained, or had problems with the damn names. You know, it reminds me of the communist politrucs in the Eastern EU Block. No matter how stupid things they did, those needed to be put up because it was a precise "somebody" wich's work needed to be put up to fill a statistic necesare to him, for leveling up in party hierarchy. *** Get a job, gentlemen. A real one. |
Kekminator
Loktar Ogar Co.
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 11:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
Some of the changes are for the better: Neural Enhancement, Production, Resource processing, Scanning, new Science, Shields, Armor. Grouping CPU and PG skills and throwing WU and AWU in there is OK too.
Some changes are definitely bad:
- Spaceship Command, as everyone said.
- PI skills should stay together, they serve a single purpose.
- Subsystem skills should stay separate from rigs - ideally forever, or at least until skill loss on ship loss is removed.
- Targeting skill : "multiple targeting", while specific, sound really bad. I support "Target Management" suggestion.
Also, I agree that "CPU Management" sounds a bit awkward, and Electronic Systems should have an "s" as bolded. There were several other good proposals in the thread, won't list everything. |
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