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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
700
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Posted - 2013.07.04 00:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:I've seen Jira used in another MMO for bug reporting and it was FAR from average player/end-user friendly. It had lots of features for the programmers/devs to track issues but it was a maze to navigate and understand. I suppose this could have had something to do with how it was set up for that environment but, will your new system be friendly for us non-programmer types?
Jira itself is a very powerful tool and sure - it can get complicated if configured accordingly. It can also be quite friendly to the average user, if he does not need to use all of the features. But: As EVE player you will not see Jira itself at all, Team Roundhouse Kick is building a new front-end for players (which communicates with Jira). This will hide all complicated stuff and you should have a better experience than you have now with the old bugs site.
Ian Morbius wrote:Hope things go well changing over to JIRA. Yes, things are going very well. While some parts took slightly longer than expected (mostly the data migration), there were no real problems and everything is now completed for the EVE project (except the bug reporting part).
Ivan Davis: Yes, the mailbox is being read for sure. Please send all security relevant information there.
Late replies to bug reports: Yes, we were not able to process all bug reports as fast as we wanted within the last year. We also had to mass-close bug reports sometimes, as we did not have the tools and manpower to go through all of them in the detail, which we wanted. Jira and the new bug-reporting page will improve our tools a lot, which should make us in CCP and also our volunteer bug hunters much more efficient. For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock | Team Five 0 Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
207
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:StevieTopSiders wrote:Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute. Not my department, but if the client freezes I assume you're uploading files? It's not great behaviour I admit...
My client freezes when I file bug reports regardless of whether I attach a file or not. It's not quite a minute, maybe 30 seconds. Still plenty of time to get ganked if I am in low/null without a cloak and want to file a bug report... Maybe you could at least make the "processing/uploading bugreport" window non-modal so I could warp out if hostiles arrive? Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Probe Job
Delocated
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 04:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
So, where do we report that the link for "An update on bug reporting, Part 1" in the launcher is broken? |
Seth Toralen
Generic Alt Corporation 421
6
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Posted - 2013.07.04 05:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
So.... with migrating the bug reports to the community site.... those of us experiencing the 324 Error with logging onto all of the EVE websites will no longer be able to access bug reports. Forums only still works for some of us because of cookies that still magically work. So after that, we're left with emailed petitions I guess.
I've got bug report 158874 and bug report 163663 along with a bunch of forum activity on this issue. Slowly but surely I'm losing my ability to communicate this issue to you guys..... |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
91
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Posted - 2013.07.04 06:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account.
I did not get an update when 143109 was flagged as not reproducable on the bugs front page. This is probably because it was attached to a defect. As a matter of fact, when looking at the report it self, it still says attached to defect. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
99
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:pmchem wrote:I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.
Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.
Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):
bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU
bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored
bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.
Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff handling reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game. So, I had a look at your bug reports. The non repro one - 4 separate testers tried to repro with the information you gave, and couldn't. That's a nonrepro over 23 separate attempts using varying conditions. Note the "sometimes" in your statement about the defect - some issues with varying repro rates can be very difficult to reproduce and we only have so much time to allocate to each issue. The issue you find with the bug reporter isn't actually an issue at all, it's by design, and ultimately changing anyway. Unfortunately the 3rd issue just looks like it hasn't been gotten around to yet. It's not that it's being ignored, but we are only so many It is very well written though - kudos to you!
seriously, the local status not refreshing is not yet handled?
it was reported after last year summer update!!!!!!!!!
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
99
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Posted - 2013.07.04 08:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:I made a couple of bug reports on my Dscan needing to be opened up every single time i undock..
Both times the replies i got were "No it doesn't"
I wasn't impressed. i reported the same issue after winter update, attached to a defect, then supposed to be solved in "andrea" update => still not working....... |
Sturmwolke
434
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
How will this migration improve bugreport feedback to player who submits bug reports? I've had bug reports submitted, showed fixed/attached to a defect in one expansion ..... then the next expansion, rinse and repeat ..... then the next expansion, rinse and repeat on the SAME ISSUE.
That begs the question on how this new system will track the same defects over multiple expansions?
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DJ BASIL
Recon Mercenary
46
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Quote:The first bug reports were filed on 15th November 2003 as a test to the system. The first player filed bug report that we found was bug report 62, filed on the 26th October 2003
I was taught in school that order September 2003 October 2003 November 2003 December 2003
fix it! |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
91
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Posted - 2013.07.04 11:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote: it was reported after last year summer update!!!!!!!!!
That's nothing. Ever tried dragging a stack of ice products on another stack in a fuel bay, so that it wouldn't fit? You'd have noticed you don't get a set quantity message. November 2010 (and it was already known)
Or even more obvious, corp transactions, buy OR sell (not both) all wallets show only the oldest results. December 2010
Junior account can't see corp shares unless he has take access to 1 wallet. February 2011
Then a couple more but those are only since June 2012. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
700
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Posted - 2013.07.04 11:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Seth Toralen wrote:So.... with migrating the bug reports to the community site.... those of us experiencing the 324 Error with logging onto all of the EVE websites will no longer be able to access bug reports. Forums only still works for some of us because of cookies that still magically work. So after that, we're left with emailed petitions I guess.
I've got bug report 158874 and bug report 163663 along with a bunch of forum activity on this issue. Slowly but surely I'm losing my ability to communicate this issue to you guys.....
We have a high priority internal defect for this issue.
Rutger Janssen wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account. I did not get an update when 143109 was flagged as not reproducable on the bugs front page. This is probably because it was attached to a defect. As a matter of fact, when looking at the report it self, it still says attached to defect.
Yeah, this is how the old system worked - it did not propagate the exact state of the internal defect to the bug report. Unfortunately I cannot promise, that you will get more information with the new system, but I hope that there will be less confusion. More details about this should be in future DevBlog on this topic. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock | Team Five 0 Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Yulai Federation
105
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Posted - 2013.07.04 11:49:00 -
[42] - Quote
So, to invalid mails of the current system will be gone as well? That said-to-be multipart message, what really is not, is just invalid per RFC2046. To illustrate it:
Quote: Return-path: blah ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD_01CE0F48.8A792460"
Hello $username, here-is-a-BR-tag Thank you for your bugreport titled ...
So, MUAs just do one of the following:
- Try to guess the content type, and maybe using text/html
- Defaulting to text/plain, displaying some ugly stuff
- Defaulting to text/html, displaying as you intend it to be
- Just do a WTF.
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Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
91
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Posted - 2013.07.04 11:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Seth Toralen wrote:So.... with migrating the bug reports to the community site.... those of us experiencing the 324 Error with logging onto all of the EVE websites will no longer be able to access bug reports. Forums only still works for some of us because of cookies that still magically work. So after that, we're left with emailed petitions I guess.
I've got bug report 158874 and bug report 163663 along with a bunch of forum activity on this issue. Slowly but surely I'm losing my ability to communicate this issue to you guys..... We have a high priority internal defect for this issue. Rutger Janssen wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account. I did not get an update when 143109 was flagged as not reproducable on the bugs front page. This is probably because it was attached to a defect. As a matter of fact, when looking at the report it self, it still says attached to defect. Yeah, this is how the old system worked - it did not propagate the exact state of the internal defect to the bug report. Unfortunately I cannot promise, that you will get more information with the new system, but I hope that there will be less confusion. More details about this should be in future DevBlog on this topic.
Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
700
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Posted - 2013.07.04 13:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rutger Janssen wrote:Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) I don't care about the materials I lost, I just want to know that it has been locked at properly.
Materials disappearing shouldn't just be ignored, just because you tried to install a manufactering job 100 times when you need to have the process delayed by the server.
I don't know exactly how the dev tried to reproduce it. From a quick glance at the defect I can understand that it would be quite difficult to find the correct type of lag to reproduce it (assuming that it was caused by lag). CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock | Team Five 0 Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1133
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Posted - 2013.07.04 14:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ZAPP! An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
91
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Posted - 2013.07.04 14:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Rutger Janssen wrote:Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) I don't care about the materials I lost, I just want to know that it has been locked at properly.
Materials disappearing shouldn't just be ignored, just because you tried to install a manufactering job 100 times when you need to have the process delayed by the server. I don't know exactly how the dev tried to reproduce it. From a quick glance at the defect I can understand that it would be quite difficult to find the correct type of lag to reproduce it (assuming that it was caused by lag).
Thank you so much for looking into it. Are you allowed to use the isk send to your character for your player characters? If not, give me a character name and I'll send it 250m isk.
It was either: 1. Server lag(the system was on a node which was under stress by a fleet fight) 2. Repackaging a R.A.M. that the server had just assembled(Which I was able to do because of the mentioned lag).
Which is why I've been telling from the start, that just reproduction is a waste of time, and the dev should introduce a delay on the assembling and repacking of the R.A.M. (easiest way I imagine) if he really needed to reproduce it. I had asked that to be done on the test server but CCP Goliath said it would be done internally. (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1917463#post1917463) I want to make sure this was (properly) done as that info might have gotten lost in my plea to get it attached to a defect :(
But even it couldn't be reproduced, how the hell was there no entry in the logs that I started installing the job when all the GMs say there should have been once materials started being used?
I'm not questioning the compentency of the devs involved, it's just that I know I lost materials and was ignored for so long and just closed without properly looking into it, I kinda lost faith :(
And before someone says that server performance improved, the underlying issue would still be there.
I've heared rumors that CCP Blacklight/Backlight(not sure which one it was) was looking at it after another player with better contacts reported it, but don't know if that's true or not :(
Is there any chance you can ask the dev to drop me an ingame mail or reply here? (250m for you, 500m for the dev himself if he contacts me). |
Ivan Davis
Luna Free State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 21:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Yes, the mailbox is being read for sure. Please send all security relevant information there.
Well, that's good to know... would be nice if messages sent there were acknowledged in some way.
Even an automated "Your message has been received" is better than wondering if a carefully thought-out and well written report has just.... disappeared into a blackhole.
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catallin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
24
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Posted - 2013.07.05 12:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:
We are not pushing out too many updates to EVE over the next few weeks, and donGÇÿt anticipate many new issues arising.
I see what you did there |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
211
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
One issue seems to have arisen during the week, the Split Stack option when creating contracts no longer works
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256044&find=unread
Hoping that gets picked up by a dev, it's putting a real damper on our ability to get minerals onto courier contracts -- |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
65
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Posted - 2013.07.06 14:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:We are not pushing out too many updates to EVE over the next few weeks, and donGÇÿt anticipate many new issues arising And then you broke stack splitting. |
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Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
261
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Posted - 2013.07.07 15:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Quote:Firstly, the existing bug reporting site will be no longer be used to collect EVE bug reports. It didnGÇÿt fit with our modern web presence, so our wonderful web team Roundhouse Kick are redesigning new pages from scratch to be a better tool for players that want to let us know about issues they encounter. As a consequence of this, we will also be disabling the In Game Bug Reporter (IGBR) located in the Help menu, until Team Superfriends has it ready to work with our new system. This all means that we will effectively be GÇPgoing darkGÇ£ on bug reports for a couple of weeks, meaning that any reports that you create before we go live with the new solutions, will not be processed. What dunce decided this was a reasonable course of action?
Normal practice would to wait until the new system was ready before disabling the old one. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1593
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Posted - 2013.07.07 18:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Quote:Firstly, the existing bug reporting site will be no longer be used to collect EVE bug reports. It didnGÇÿt fit with our modern web presence, so our wonderful web team Roundhouse Kick are redesigning new pages from scratch to be a better tool for players that want to let us know about issues they encounter. As a consequence of this, we will also be disabling the In Game Bug Reporter (IGBR) located in the Help menu, until Team Superfriends has it ready to work with our new system. This all means that we will effectively be GÇPgoing darkGÇ£ on bug reports for a couple of weeks, meaning that any reports that you create before we go live with the new solutions, will not be processed. What dunce decided this was a reasonable course of action? Normal practice would to wait until the new system was ready before disabling the old one.
Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries Orion Consortium
79
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Posted - 2013.07.07 21:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:
As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.
If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon. |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
92
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Posted - 2013.07.07 22:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Molic Blackbird wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.
If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon.
There's a difference between serious issues and issues. (There are usually more categories than that). So that you need bug reporting system because you don't expect serious issues is false, as you still expect issues.
Whether or not splitting stacks is classified as serious is unknown. It doesn't prevent people from playing, there's a workaround (fly to the station) and only small set of players is affected by it (based on the number of forum posts). (off-topic, to me it seems a server bug based on the logserver output)
Personally, I don't have any expectation when it comes to the fixing of small things. As I mentioned, some of those that I reported are not fixed more than 2 years later. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1593
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Posted - 2013.07.07 22:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Molic Blackbird wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.
If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon.
I'm on vacation, so don't know the status of the issue. My point with introducing issues is that there are no large updates planned during the bug reporting downtime, so the chance of introducing anything is incredibly small, thus my decision regarding not needing a reporting system in this time. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
215
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Posted - 2013.07.08 06:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to. The above underlined & bolded statement is a colossally stupid thing to say. Or did you really mean to imply that there are occasions where CCP anticipates introducing serious issues but proceeds anyway?
If the "pages and igbr" aren't ready then delay the introduction of the new defect tracking system until they are. Stop cutting corners and maybe your rate of really stupid mistakes will go down (witness: recent unintentional unloading of a fleet fight system).
MDD |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
92
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Posted - 2013.07.08 10:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote: The above underlined & bolded statement is a colossally stupid thing to say. Or did you really mean to imply that there are occasions where CCP anticipates introducing serious issues but proceeds anyway?
Do you have any experience with game development or software development? When you make a change, there's a risk something goes wrong. Sure, you can test the hell out of it, but that costs money and time, something that might not be worth it considering the risk and expected fallout.
Often, when you make a small change, you don't expect big issues (although that definatly happens). When you rewrite complete classes, introduce new features you often anticipate more serious issues due to it's complexity and size and have it tested better.
So, I read CCP Goliath statement as that there won't be any large changes, new features etc in the coming weeks. Possibly not even small changes as all the developers are on holiday to recover from the crunch period. Ofcourse I can be wrong as I'm not CCP Goliath or know what actually happens at CCP.
As for delaying the defect tracking system, in my opinion, it doesn't matter. It already took months to have reports processed and years to get some stuff fixed, can't get much worse *knocks on wood*. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
261
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Posted - 2013.07.08 23:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to. Dress it up any way you like - what you describe indicates a lack of intelligent planning. |
Zlipnut
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
So, where do I now report serious bugs ?
Like, eve client now crashes at every jump gate with the message "Socket was closed" and also every time I try to dock at a station.
So, basically unplayable at the moment !!! |
Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
95
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23323 for socket closed issues ( the last reply there might help). For all other issues, the same subforum that thread is in: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=272 |
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