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Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
By this, I don't mean doing the C3 with the Legion and then having a second account collect the loot. I mean doing everything with one ship, as I don't have multiple accounts. I came up with this fit:
Corelum C-type Medium Armor Repairer Corelum C-type Medium Armor Repairer Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Federation Navy 100mn Afterburner Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Salvager I Expanded Probe Launcher I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
600 DPS tank, it's got quite a bit of cap to spare so it's neut resistant, it's got all three recovery modules and the 100mn AB makes you at least somewhat resistant to being easily ganked.
Is this worth doing at all? Legion only has a 300m3 cargohold and I have to carry missiles and probes, am I going to fill that up with the loot from half a site, making the whole effort pointless? Or will I be able to haul away multiple sites before having to find my way back to high sec to unload loot and get more missiles? |
Bamsey Amraa
Unseen Nomads Exiled Ones
32
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Posted - 2013.07.04 17:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yep looks good go for it. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
246
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Posted - 2013.07.04 17:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
600 dps tank should be enough for a C3. Legion is a very short range ship though so it might involve a lot of burning back and forth to run some of the sites. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1488
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Posted - 2013.07.04 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes it should be doable. I have a corp mate that used to run them solo in a C3. Although he would go back and salvage with a noctis.
A couple of thoughts in general.
First. I'd skip the radars and Mags. The time it takes to hack the cans isn't worth the loot anymore. And the loot is bulky. doing so frees up 2 mid slots for something.
Also, skipping radars/mags now means you are overtanked. My friend referenced above ran anoms solo all the time in a single med repped legion without issue. Well he would occasionally overheat the rep, but that's what Paste is for.
This was his C3 fit. [Legion, C3 farmer]
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Thermic Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized EM Membrane Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Capacitor Battery II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
And I just played around with it to make this. Kind of a laser version of yours. Benefit being lasers will pop sleeper frigates better than HAMs, and no ammo to worry about.
[Legion, C3 farmer all in one]
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Thermic Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized EM Membrane Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell Cap Recharger II Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Salvager I Expanded Probe Launcher I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
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Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 19:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
How is salvaging the sites in a Noctis really viable? With the amount you have to roam around to find the C3, by the time you find a WH with a site your Noctis could be 16 jumps away. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1488
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Posted - 2013.07.04 19:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:How is salvaging the sites in a Noctis really viable? With the amount you have to roam around to find the C3, by the time you find a WH with a site your Noctis could be 16 jumps away.
Well in our case we lived in the C3 at the time. |
Icarus Able
Pheonix Corp Selectus
31
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Posted - 2013.07.04 21:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeh just skip the Containers most of the cash is in the Blue Loot and Nanos and without a T2 salvager or tackle rigs your gonna be spending a lot of time just salvaging the large wrecks so i might even skip that tbh. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 21:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
So you think even the salvager isn't worth it? Just shoot the rats and loot the wrecks? Because if I drop the salvager I could fit a cloak for even more defense against ganking. I could also scout through lowsec for wormholes and just instawarp through gate camps. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1488
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:So you think even the salvager isn't worth it? Just shoot the rats and loot the wrecks? Because if I drop the salvager I could fit a cloak for even more defense against ganking. I could also scout through lowsec for wormholes and just instawarp through gate camps.
Most C3 anoms are going to average about 30mil per site in "blue loot". You can potentially double that with salvage depending on ribbon drops. So salvaging can be worth it. That being said you have the same chance of a ribbon drop with a frigate and BS (although a BS will often drop more than one)
I ran into a guy one running them solo in a c2. I was pretty impressed how he just orbited a wreck salvaging while shooting the next sleeper. I was only in a stealth bomber so I could only observe but it was doing fairly well
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Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.07 23:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ok, now that I've done this for awhile, I have to ask.....are there ANY C2s and C3s that aren't occupied? I've been in at least 30 now and have yet to find one without a POS installed. Made about 500m ISK so far but have had several close calls with cloaked covops or recons. I'm not sure how people do anomalies at all without getting ganked within hours. By sticking to data/relic sites at least you force them to probe you out, and you can see the probes on dscan. It's pretty harrowing to hit scan and suddenly see 8 combat probes plus 2 Tengus, a Proteus, Sleipnir, and an Arazu. |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1504
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Posted - 2013.07.07 23:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Ok, now that I've done this for awhile, I have to ask.....are there ANY C2s and C3s that aren't occupied? I've been in at least 30 now and have yet to find one without a POS installed. Made about 500m ISK so far but have had several close calls with cloaked covops or recons. I'm not sure how people do anomalies at all without getting ganked within hours. By sticking to data/relic sites at least you force them to probe you out, and you can see the probes on dscan. It's pretty harrowing to hit scan and suddenly see 8 combat probes plus 2 Tengus, a Proteus, Sleipnir, and an Arazu.
I hate both C2's and C3's for that reason. On the other hand they are great when roaming around bored.
And yes there are a fair number of empty C2 and C3 systems. But they are the ones with nullsec statics |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.08 01:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah I figured as much, next I'm going to try just fitting the Legion with covops cloak and flying around in low sec, then just changing back at the nearest station when I find a good one. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
77
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Posted - 2013.07.08 02:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you were thinking about my hole, don't. already did the sites today (learn too change your ship names mate, I was the guy in the abbadon) as for the fit though derath normally knows what he talks about. Also as for WH occupants, ya, you will find most C3 with people living in it. My only advice is too keep an ear too the sell order forums as corp are moving out of them all the time, or go through the boring dance of siege and eviction, that is if you want too live in one anyway . "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.13 04:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, this little experiment is basically dead, while I ran the C3s ok, after getting ganked twice and losing a half million skillpoints and a billion ISK in Legions it's just not worth it. I didn't really understand how helpless you are against the gangs that roam through there without a POS shield to hide behind. One gank I might have avoided if I paid better attention, as he just warped to my anom and scrammed me before I saw him, but the other time? I saw it coming and got to my safe spot, aligned to something and tried to wait out the timer, only to find that they were consistently probing me down in less than a minute. Can't logoff safely, can't warp to the wormhole, that exits to low sec and you just get killed on the other side. I warped to random objects and when the 5 minute timer ran out, I made a mid-warp bookmark, warped to it, and logged off. Logged back into a station. When you die even when you catch them on d-scan, it's just pointless.
In case anyone cares, I found an actual use for the Legion drone subsystem, as I was pulling in 80m/hour while I was still alive with this fit, if anyone wants to risk it, go ahead:
2x Corelum C-type MAR Imperial Navy EANM 2x Drone Damage Aug II
Domination 100mn AB 3x Cap Recharger
4x Heavy Pulse Laser II Salvager Tractor Beam Expanded Probe launcher
Nanobot Injector Emergent Locus Analyzer Drone Synthesis Projector Fuel Catalyst Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tractor in the wrecks and salvage them while pew pewing the next sleeper. It's more DPS than a 5x HP II fit. Only the sleeper frigs can track Hammerhead IIs at all, so you rarely lose drones. Occasionally against a 4-6 frig wave they will switch and you lose a drone, but you have a 200m3 drone bay so you can carry 15 spares. You'll fill your cargohold with blue loot and salvage before you run out of those. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
84
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 07:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
TBH ill probably use your fit. Good on you for trying wormholes. One day you should grab a couple of friends and buy yourself an empty low sec static c3 and set up a pos and all that jazz. It is a good staging point for low sec roams if you can stand doing Fuel logi through low sec and when you run the sleeper sites you can easily make enough isk too fuel the station and have cash leftover for alot of shiny pew pew "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
109
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Posted - 2013.07.13 13:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Am I the only one who finds it a bit naive to not expect being hunted down when you impede other's income in their own territory? In an environment where people will usually hunt you without giving them an incentive in the first place, just for that shiny T3 killmail? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
284
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Posted - 2013.07.13 17:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah solo roaming wormhole space to run sites doesn't really work (or atleast the effort to make it work is probably not worth the reward) hence why most people establish a POS in a system with a good static to run sites in. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2013.07.13 22:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Am I the only one who finds it a bit naive to not expect being hunted down when you impede other's income in their own territory? In an environment where people will usually hunt you without giving them an incentive in the first place, just for that shiny T3 killmail?
TBH I completely expected people to try and gank me. What surprised me was the completely inescapable nature of the ganks, I thought that if I could see them on dscan and get off grid before being scrammed I could survive. Did not think it was possible to reliably probe a ship down and warp to them in <60 sec over and over. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
709
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Posted - 2013.07.14 21:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
You will eventually get ganked running sites completely solo, no matter how slick you think you are. Eve is Real |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.15 11:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:You will eventually get ganked running sites completely solo, no matter how slick you think you are.
It's way less boring than running l4s, and with the amount of drama that seems to surround incursions, I think I dodged a bullet by staying away from those as well. |
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dark dreamur
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
33
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Posted - 2013.07.15 11:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
worm holes can be hard solo, harder if you don't live in one so have to fit everything on one ship, i really commend you though for having the balls to try it and see, a lot of people will just ask these forums ( nothing wrong with that) but you also put your usk on the line and that is awesome.
so you had a taste of wh life, seen the isk can be good and the great unknown always around the corner, also the next bad guy is just a de cloak away, so what now? I would suggest joining a wh corp, that way you can run sites in your static and come back in a noctis or have a buddy salvage, you can have corp mates at your back if you get jumped and maybe turn the tables on the gankers.
solo with out a cloak is going to be so dangerous, you could of warped up an cloaked as a posed to getting scanned down again. once done with your sites, bookmark them an warp out so they de spawn, that will increase the chance that someone has to scan you down at least during the salvaging part.
you can now pay a plex to train 2 toons at the same time, maybe train a scout alt you can swap out to salvage and/ or scout when you think its safe log the legion pilot in ? don't know how practical it would be though
anyway please don't give up on wh space |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 12:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Am I the only one who finds it a bit naive to not expect being hunted down when you impede other's income in their own territory? In an environment where people will usually hunt you without giving them an incentive in the first place, just for that shiny T3 killmail? TBH I completely expected people to try and gank me. What surprised me was the completely inescapable nature of the ganks, I thought that if I could see them on dscan and get off grid before being scrammed I could survive. Did not think it was possible to reliably probe a ship down and warp to them in <60 sec over and over.
Only true for your safespots.
The problem with running sigs over anos is: how do you make sure that the WH residents haven't BM'd those sigs already and just did not get to running them (or intentionally left them open as honeypots)? In your own hole you can consider sigs reasonably safe if you have 23/7 surveillance and never dscanned any foreign probes, but as a roamer you're constantly at the mercy of chance. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.15 12:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Only true for your safespots.
The problem with running sigs over anos is: how do you make sure that the WH residents haven't BM'd those sigs already and just did not get to running them (or intentionally left them open as honeypots)? In your own hole you can consider sigs reasonably safe if you have 23/7 surveillance and never dscanned any foreign probes, but as a roamer you're constantly at the mercy of chance.
If I'm going to try and run sites there, I run the system through staticmapper.com and check for npc kills to see if the hole is being actively farmed. No activity in the last 48 hours means you're reasonably safe from the inhabitants.
The real risk, and what got me killed, (in an anom, not a signature) is roaming PvP gangs that come through the lowsec entrance behind you. If you're in an anom they can probably pin down which one it is with dscan while gate cloaked leaving you no warning at all. However, in a signature, these gangs will have to scan it down first before they can gank you.
My main problem was that getting off grid before they show up doesn't actually save you. You have nowhere to run to that they can't follow. There's no aggression timer for jumping through wormholes so if you head for the exit, they can just come through and kill you on the other side. |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
83
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Posted - 2013.07.15 12:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:It's way less boring than running l4s, and with the amount of drama that seems to surround incursions, I think I dodged a bullet by staying away from those as well. Well, that is definitely true as well. Replacing that legion with a cheap battlecruiser might make it worth the risk as well, but that might restrict you to c1's and c2's unless you can find a fit that has all three of high dps, high tank and high capacitor.
I'd suggest joining some existing wormhole corporation. Alternatively you could make a corp of your own and take over one of the countless poorly defended or empty holes. EVE is a pretty mediocre game when played alone, but absolutely awesome in a good group, so in my opinion soloing is always a bad idea. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.15 12:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:Xequecal wrote:It's way less boring than running l4s, and with the amount of drama that seems to surround incursions, I think I dodged a bullet by staying away from those as well. Well, that is definitely true as well. Replacing that legion with a cheap battlecruiser might make it worth the risk as well, but that might restrict you to c1's and c2's unless you can find a fit that has all three of high dps, high tank and high capacitor. I'd suggest joining some existing wormhole corporation. Alternatively you could make a corp of your own and take over one of the countless poorly defended or empty holes. EVE is a pretty mediocre game when played alone, but absolutely awesome in a good group, so in my opinion soloing is always a bad idea.
I don't think you can fit a T1 BC to survive C2 sites. You are very dependent on using sig and speed to tank the damage. A single Sleepless Outguard does over 400 DPS by itself and those spawn in C2s. An outguard plus two cruisers is 520 DPS which is way beyond a T1 BCs ability to tank, since you can't reduce damage through a low sig and a fuel catalysted oversized AB like a Legion can. The Legion only survives through a combination of sig/speed tanking and T2 racial resists.
In C3s I avoid everything that spawns Sleepless Upholders because they deal pure EM/Therm damage and Amarr doesn't get a racial bonus to those. With 1 EANM on a Legion an Upholder can remove over half your total armor with one unlucky wrecking shot, it's pretty ridiculous. At the same time, the sites that spawn Defenders and Preservers are stupidly easy, because even though each of these battleships deal similar raw damage to one Upholder, they deal mostly Exp/Kin damage through missiles which can't wreck. Three Defenders/Preservers is easily tankable, a single Upholder can randomly just explode you at any time. BCs don't get racial resists at all so all sleeper BSes are just death, even in C2s. |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
83
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
I remember doing c1's and c2's in a myrmidon way back when I started EVE, and I have even done a few sites in an assault frigate recently just for ***** and giggles. I have even seen people run C4's in a drake, but that was more than a little bit ugly business.
Having range and velocity can help a lot, even in a battlecruiser, so the lower end wormholes are not THAT hard to tank. Heavy assault cruisers are also an option that allows for easier sig tanking, but they are a bit more expensive than battlecruisers. |
Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
223
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Posted - 2013.07.15 21:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xequecal wrote: I don't think you can fit a T1 BC to survive C2 sites. You are very dependent on using sig and speed to tank the damage. A single Sleepless Outguard does over 400 DPS by itself and those spawn in C2s. An outguard plus two cruisers is 520 DPS which is way beyond a T1 BCs ability to tank, since you can't reduce damage through a low sig and a fuel catalysted oversized AB like a Legion can. The Legion only survives through a combination of sig/speed tanking and T2 racial resists.
In C3s I avoid everything that spawns Sleepless Upholders because they deal pure EM/Therm damage and Amarr doesn't get a racial bonus to those. With 1 EANM on a Legion an Upholder can remove over half your total armor with one unlucky wrecking shot, it's pretty ridiculous. At the same time, the sites that spawn Defenders and Preservers are stupidly easy, because even though each of these battleships deal similar raw damage to one Upholder, they deal mostly Exp/Kin damage through missiles which can't wreck. Three Defenders/Preservers is easily tankable, a single Upholder can randomly just explode you at any time. BCs don't get racial resists at all so all sleeper BSes are just death, even in C2s.
Amarr BattleCruisers aren't good for much these days. Especially in a WH. However, there are more than a couple battlecruisers that can run C1/C2 sites solo (and C3s properly fit).
Drakes - obvious choice - passive shield Mrymidon - doublerepper - arty or ac for aggro + drones Brutix is also an option though med rails are crap so bear in mind it'll be a lot of catching sleepers to apply damage Not tried the Ferox but it ought to be possible in C1/C2 Hurricane might also work (getting into damage application range would be easier than the Brutix due to mattari falloff)
Theory craft some fits (to solo a C1/C2 site you'll wind up needing about 200-250DPS effective tank versus omni damage) and see what plays to your skills. Getting everything all on one hull will be challenging though on T1 hulls. An alt (or even better a friend) is a better option long term.
Clone gameplay enhancements |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
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Posted - 2013.07.16 02:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drakes are very valid for C1/C2 holes. It sure can be a little slow to move around and kill stuff but it is viable. If one stick to C1 holes there is an added bonus that salvaging drones can salvage all the Sleeper wrecks. If I remember correctly salvage drones can't salvage Sleeper battleships. I might be wrong though. |
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