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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Arrendis
Hephaestus LLC Fatal Ascension
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:07:00 -
[451] - Quote
Barakach wrote: Here's an analogy. Say you're in the medical field and on your chart that you're supposed inject embalming fluid into your live patient? Would that send up a red flag and be like... hmm.. that might kill someone. Or do you just blindly keep on trucking and be like... ooops, human error.
It's a poor analogy - what you're describing is an active agent reviewing erroneous instructions and not questioning them. What happened here was a passive agent received erroneous instructions, and didn't have the capacity to question them.
The miskeyed command is more analagous to the harried nurse making a checkmark on the chart and having it be long enough to appear to give incorrect instructions... which a lazily coded automated system then processes without asking for clarification.
The actual miskeyed command entry is an extremely minor mistake - and frankly, one that 'anyone who is a programmer or admin in a real enterprise' should be anticipating and creating failsafes to and confirmation checks to filter out. As you say:
Quote:How does a tool that handles system moves, offer nary a complaint when someone tries to erroneously shutdown and transfer a critical system?
That's the 'unacceptable' mistake here.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3814
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:14:00 -
[452] - Quote
Levaria wrote:Just stopping in to relish, bathe and frolic in the TEST and CFC tears...
But IMHO CCP, really? REALLY? Come one ten years baby...TEN years, this happens more often then not, and having been in multiple large Null Sec power bloc alliances this is bullshit. Barely broke 2.2k limit on the system and poof. Perhaps some sort of warning system or a popup box like we get before emergency DT stating "Hey you battle hardened killers, fyi NODE is going to be reinforced, prepare for awesome and or disco's."
A heads up would be nice. In addition what is the point of TIDI if it will not be used. When you guys are needed to reinforce a node..You are not there or the request is ignored, when we have so called "Organic battles", you poke and prod the poor gerbil in the server box and try to make him run faster, and then this craptastrophy happens. TiDi helps, but you see it allowed us to cram ever more people into the system, again pushing it to the (unreinforced) limit.
Hell, you can have multiple-hours long fights in 10% TiDi-ed, reinforced systems and the server still chokes and begs for death. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
117
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:15:00 -
[453] - Quote
Ultimately TiDi and continued fail at manually re-enforcing nodes when big fights go down is epic fail, 10 years in for a company that espouses 'single shard' 'one sandbox'...
CCP has serious architecture scalability issues and unfortunately it appears they have decided to wait until they hit a brick wall, painting around the edges with vaporware like TiDi, rather than biting the bullet and doing a re-write on a kernal that doesn't scale, to one that better does dynamic server resource allocation.
It shouldn't be 'single shard' in the marketing literature anymore...It should be 'single shard*' with a big fat asterisk...
"*So long as more than 2,000 players don't enter a single system"
http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2804
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:17:00 -
[454] - Quote
Aemon Cross wrote:So funny, all these Testes coming out commenting about goon tears. It was TEST tears that were flowing in that fight. Of course, that may be the reason the server went down... If enough TEST people /petitioned that they were going to unsub in a fit of nerd rage, then CCP may have to act for no other reason than to maintain revenue.
Let's face it, they need profit to run the game.
Yeah, that's what happened.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Aemon Cross
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:25:00 -
[455] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Aemon Cross wrote:So funny, all these Testes coming out commenting about goon tears. It was TEST tears that were flowing in that fight. Of course, that may be the reason the server went down... If enough TEST people /petitioned that they were going to unsub in a fit of nerd rage, then CCP may have to act for no other reason than to maintain revenue.
Let's face it, they need profit to run the game.
Yeah, that's what happened.
Look, look! I can contribute with emoticons too!! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3815
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:29:00 -
[456] - Quote
Aemon Cross wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Aemon Cross wrote:So funny, all these Testes coming out commenting about goon tears. It was TEST tears that were flowing in that fight. Of course, that may be the reason the server went down... If enough TEST people /petitioned that they were going to unsub in a fit of nerd rage, then CCP may have to act for no other reason than to maintain revenue.
Let's face it, they need profit to run the game. Yeah, that's what happened. Look, look! I can contribute with emoticons too!! :getout:
:frogbarf:
:condi:
:shobon: There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3815
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:30:00 -
[457] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:"Our infrastructure isn't fail because we didn't get a 'Fleet flight notification' beforehand" Yeah, its the players fault. Seriously?
Ultimately TiDi and continued fail at manually re-enforcing nodes when big fights go down IS epic fail, 10 years in for a company that espouses 'single shard' 'one sandbox'...
CCP has serious architecture scalability issues and unfortunately it appears they have decided to wait until they hit a brick wall, painting around the edges with vaporware like TiDi, rather than biting the bullet and doing a re-write on a kernal that doesn't scale, to one that better does dynamic server resource allocation.
It shouldn't be 'single shard' in the marketing literature anymore...It should be 'single shard*' with a big fat asterisk...
"*So long as more than 2,000 players don't enter a single system"
And re: "All pilots involved have our sincerest apologies for this error, and we are currently looking to review our policy of action in these types of situation to ensure that this is not repeated."
Policy of action?
Isn't the real answer to march ass up to the guys holding the budget dollars and telling them you are going to keep hitting this brick wall until a rewrite around a dynamic resource allocating architecture is done? THAT's being honest, to yourself, your executive and your players...
Looking forward to your next 'fix' for this situation, 'TiDi Plus+' perhaps? Where we see dancing (care)bears go across our screens, while waiting for actions to register and come back from the servers. Doubt they would do that much more. It only affects a small portion of players a small portion of the time.
Better to work on something else. Like a new-and-improved launcher. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
243
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:31:00 -
[458] - Quote
Not empty posting. Will Fountain be Goonswarm's Waterloo?Read all about it in COAD. |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:34:00 -
[459] - Quote
I suggest you retool your software so that moves like this in the future cannot be done without first specifying an exception (Z9 in this case) |
Obearoth HuanTao
The Drunken Empire Fatal Ascension
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:36:00 -
[460] - Quote
Mistakes like this, is simply unacceptable. The nerd the pulled this of, should be delegated to washing toilets, or no more then running a very small and unimportant obscure server. So, its bad enough that the servers cant handle a 250 player fleet moving around without dropping to 40-20% tidi, mistakes like this, is like stumbeling drunk over a world champion chess game 5 hours into it, spilling the remaining pieces all over the floor. It is not done.
Wanna make up for it ccp? Make sure this type of pubbie mistake does not happen for 5 years to come And btw, why do you have to manually pull levers to adjust or move computing power? You cant make the server park more fluid and dynamic ? |
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Paul Leonard Kersey
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:48:00 -
[461] - Quote
CCP ruins gameplay again, this is not news.
Any other company that screwed it's customers repeatedly like this soon went out of business.
Start firing some of these fat fingered "DEVS", maybe the others will actually check what they're typing.
Any employee that screwed up this bad, or this many times needs to be fired.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp Goonswarm Federation
868
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:02:00 -
[462] - Quote
Phillip Morning wrote:We will just have to wait and see how it goes down next time. Hopefully there will be plenty more goon tears to collect It's kinda funny the best test can do is try to troll us about how we didn't blow up as much of tests cap fleet as we should have. |
Endeavour Starfleet
913
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:16:00 -
[463] - Quote
Paul Leonard Kersey wrote:CCP ruins gameplay again, this is not news.
Any other company that screwed it's customers repeatedly like this soon went out of business.
Start firing some of these fat fingered "DEVS", maybe the others will actually check what they're typing.
Any employee that screwed up this bad, or this many times needs to be fired.
So you would enjoy playing a game where you knew employees were fearing over making even the smallest mistakes?
Do you enjoy firing people and throwing them out into the job market? Do you relish the thought of their families having hardship because you didn't get that carrier mail?
I have another idea how about you biomass your EVE online characters and leave this game? Honestly would you please do that?
Obearoth HuanTao wrote:.....Mistakes like this, is simply unacceptable. The nerd the pulled this of, should be delegated to washing toilets, or no more then running a very small and unimportant obscure server. .......
Please I beg of you. Please biomass your in game characters and leave this game. |
Senditu
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:37:00 -
[464] - Quote
This is one I just cannot afford to deny comment.
We were at it hardcore and although I agree that it was crazy in system, and tidi was huge, the fact that this happened at such a critical juncture in the battle make me skeptical at the very best.
Appreciation is necessarily one of those things that comes to mind ...... personally! |
Arrendis
Hephaestus LLC Fatal Ascension
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:39:00 -
[465] - Quote
Well, at this point, we're out of normal business hours in Iceland (I believe it's 9:37 there now?) and while I'm not expecting 'Dear Capsuleers, this is exactly what happened, which processes were invoked, and precisely what we've already done to fix everything, YAY!', I have to admit, in a thread we were specifically asked to use so that our questions could get addressed, it's a little disappointing to not even have so much as a 'you guys have raised a number of perfectly valid questions, and the team is looking at them, dont' worry' update.
Or did someone accidentally remap the forums? |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:13:00 -
[466] - Quote
It is funny how people seem to be in favour of Goonswarm and blame TEST for this "mistake". The same alliance that abuses game mechanics whenever they can. The same alliance that kills Jita about twice a year.
Needless to say, if I was the person in question at CCP I would have also said that it was an honest mistake, though I seriously would not risk my job for some billions of isk of space pixels.
my question to CCP is: What are you going to do to improve player experience for such occassions? And why wasn't the call to move "non necessary services" away from the node made earlier when the fight hit 1k people? |
Paul Leonard Kersey
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:18:00 -
[467] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Paul Leonard Kersey wrote:CCP ruins gameplay again, this is not news.
Any other company that screwed it's customers repeatedly like this soon went out of business.
Start firing some of these fat fingered "DEVS", maybe the others will actually check what they're typing.
Any employee that screwed up this bad, or this many times needs to be fired.
So you would enjoy playing a game where you knew employees were fearing over making even the smallest mistakes? Do you enjoy firing people and throwing them out into the job market? Do you relish the thought of their families having hardship because you didn't get that carrier mail? I have another idea how about you biomass your EVE online characters and leave this game? Honestly would you please do that? Obearoth HuanTao wrote:.....Mistakes like this, is simply unacceptable. The nerd the pulled this of, should be delegated to washing toilets, or no more then running a very small and unimportant obscure server. ....... Please I beg of you. Please biomass your in game characters and leave this game.
Ruining the biggest fight in the game for months is not the smallest mistake...
If they can't do the job right, they don't deserve the job to begin with, and carrier mails have nothing to do with an employee bring incompetent. Can't do your job right? find one you can, (I suggest fast food with this kind of record)
I should leave because someone at CCP can't do their job properly? go home troll
Eve DEV that can't type a system name in properly, or be bothered to double check needs to be fired |
Arrendis
Hephaestus LLC Fatal Ascension
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:21:00 -
[468] - Quote
Paul Leonard Kersey wrote: Eve DEV that can't type a system name in properly, or be bothered to double check needs to be fired
Why should it be left to the guy typing to doublecheck, though? Why can't the software, with full access to the entire database of system names, run that half-millisecond check for him when he enters the command?
Keystroke errors happen. Good tools have safeguards to protect against them.
This was not a good tool. |
Paul Leonard Kersey
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:33:00 -
[469] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Paul Leonard Kersey wrote: Eve DEV that can't type a system name in properly, or be bothered to double check needs to be fired
Why should it be left to the guy typing to doublecheck, though? Why can't the software, with full access to the entire database of system names, run that half-millisecond check for him when he enters the command? Keystroke errors happen. Good tools have safeguards to protect against them. This was not a good tool.
+1 |
Magron1
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:51:00 -
[470] - Quote
3 choices children. whine to no purpose. get screwed by ccp and shut it or find something else to spend ur time on. it's perfectly clear now that ccp will never run this game professionally |
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Endeavour Starfleet
913
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 23:15:00 -
[471] - Quote
Paul Leonard Kersey wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Paul Leonard Kersey wrote:CCP ruins gameplay again, this is not news.
Any other company that screwed it's customers repeatedly like this soon went out of business.
Start firing some of these fat fingered "DEVS", maybe the others will actually check what they're typing.
Any employee that screwed up this bad, or this many times needs to be fired.
So you would enjoy playing a game where you knew employees were fearing over making even the smallest mistakes? Do you enjoy firing people and throwing them out into the job market? Do you relish the thought of their families having hardship because you didn't get that carrier mail? I have another idea how about you biomass your EVE online characters and leave this game? Honestly would you please do that? Obearoth HuanTao wrote:.....Mistakes like this, is simply unacceptable. The nerd the pulled this of, should be delegated to washing toilets, or no more then running a very small and unimportant obscure server. ....... Please I beg of you. Please biomass your in game characters and leave this game. Ruining the biggest fight in the game for months is not the smallest mistake... If they can't do the job right, they don't deserve the job to begin with, and carrier mails have nothing to do with an employee bring incompetent. Can't do your job right? find one you can, (I suggest fast food with this kind of record) I should leave because someone at CCP can't do their job properly? go home troll Eve DEV that can't type a system name in properly, or be bothered to double check needs to be fired
I don't want you to just leave. I beg of you to biomass your characters so hopefully you are not tempted to return to this game.
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Strategos Constance
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 23:27:00 -
[472] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: So you would enjoy playing a game where you knew employees were fearing over making even the smallest mistakes?
Do you enjoy firing people and throwing them out into the job market? Do you relish the thought of their families having hardship because you didn't get that carrier mail?
I have another idea how about you biomass your EVE online characters and leave this game? Honestly would you please do that?
1. On the flip coin, I would hope that people wouldn't work like they are irreplaceable either. People do get fired for doing major aspects of their job incorrectly, it could be as simple as mis-wiring a house or as far out as a doctor making a mistake, in any case people are held accountable for their actions, intentional or not. However, since no one knows the performance of the individual in a grand view of things, it is unwise for anyone to tell a company how to treat their employees.
2. Job markets are irrelevant when it comes to a company. You can't get personal, it is business. Sometimes employers keep employees for far to long, even if they are terrible, only because they feel bad for them. It is a mistake. To be successful unfortunately means you can't take things personally and you have to do what must be done. Your scenario of companies putting people out on the street are far from laudable considering that the employee usually has to do something wrong and is held accountable. Funny how employees are the ones that can get themselves fire, not some "evil" corporation. If someone can't do the general job, then you find someone who can for not only you, but your customers.
Seriously though, biomass your character? I am not really sure how that would accomplish anything. They have to "gasp" make another character? Or we could keep posting under assumed characters / identities so we can hide who we really are... cause no one does that!
Last point, what is your objective in all of this? You are pretty confusing constantly defending CCP, but telling their playerbase to biomass. If your looking to be alone with CCP, this is not the way I would do it.
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Arckeuss
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 23:37:00 -
[473] - Quote
BigSako wrote:It is funny how people seem to be in favour of Goonswarm and blame TEST for this "mistake". The same alliance that abuses game mechanics whenever they can. The same alliance that kills Jita about twice a year.
Needless to say, if I was the person in question at CCP I would have also said that it was an honest mistake, though I seriously would not risk my job for some billions of isk of space pixels.
my question to CCP is: What are you going to do to improve player experience for such occassions? And why wasn't the call to move "non necessary services" away from the node made earlier when the fight hit 1k people?
the same alliance (TEST) that you're defending has participated to the jita burn.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:04:00 -
[474] - Quote
Arckeuss wrote:BigSako wrote:It is funny how people seem to be in favour of Goonswarm and blame TEST for this "mistake". The same alliance that abuses game mechanics whenever they can. The same alliance that kills Jita about twice a year. the same alliance (TEST) that you're defending has participated to the jita burn. We were forcing them, it was back when they were still our "pets".
Now they are free, and like the miners, want revenge.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:05:00 -
[475] - Quote
Magron1 wrote:3 choices children. whine to no purpose. get screwed by ccp and shut it or find something else to spend ur time on. it's perfectly clear now that ccp will never run this game professionally Where is log onto your torp bomber alt and help shoot structures?
Because you should. It's a thing. That you should do. Shooting structures. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:07:00 -
[476] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Well, at this point, we're out of normal business hours in Iceland (I believe it's 9:37 there now?) and while I'm not expecting 'Dear Capsuleers, this is exactly what happened, which processes were invoked, and precisely what we've already done to fix everything, YAY!', I have to admit, in a thread we were specifically asked to use so that our questions could get addressed, it's a little disappointing to not even have so much as a 'you guys have raised a number of perfectly valid questions, and the team is looking at them, dont' worry' update.
Or did someone accidentally remap the forums? You really expected they would be responded to?
The point is that every other thread can be locked with a link to this one and all the crap stays in the disposal where it will not overflow into the rest of General Discussion. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:08:00 -
[477] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Phillip Morning wrote:We will just have to wait and see how it goes down next time. Hopefully there will be plenty more goon tears to collect It's kinda funny the best test can do is try to troll us about how we didn't blow up as much of tests cap fleet as we should have. We should have been winning harder, guys.
Next time you see the ragebroadcast remember the clock is ticking and we only have so long to apply our SUBCAP DEEPPSS to the carriers before There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Projecting regards and power all over your space. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/%27Regard%27_I_Power_Projector |
Nox Solitudo
Space Ants
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:08:00 -
[478] - Quote
Strategos Constance wrote:
1. On the flip coin, I would hope that people wouldn't work like they are irreplaceable either. People do get fired for doing major aspects of their job incorrectly, it could be as simple as mis-wiring a house or as far out as a doctor making a mistake, in any case people are held accountable for their actions, intentional or not. However, since no one knows the performance of the individual in a grand view of things, it is unwise for anyone to tell a company how to treat their employees.
Mwahaha... I've seen a guy who accidentally shut down mainframe server, or a guy who accidentally deleted the main database of certain bank. both kept doing their job.
I feel a bit sorry for that CCP guy though :) |
Endeavour Starfleet
913
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:13:00 -
[479] - Quote
Strategos Constance wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote: So you would enjoy playing a game where you knew employees were fearing over making even the smallest mistakes?
Do you enjoy firing people and throwing them out into the job market? Do you relish the thought of their families having hardship because you didn't get that carrier mail?
I have another idea how about you biomass your EVE online characters and leave this game? Honestly would you please do that?
1. On the flip coin, I would hope that people wouldn't work like they are irreplaceable either. People do get fired for doing major aspects of their job incorrectly, it could be as simple as mis-wiring a house or as far out as a doctor making a mistake, in any case people are held accountable for their actions, intentional or not. However, since no one knows the performance of the individual in a grand view of things, it is unwise for anyone to tell a company how to treat their employees. 2. Job markets are irrelevant when it comes to a company. You can't get personal, it is business. Sometimes employers keep employees for far to long, even if they are terrible, only because they feel bad for them. It is a mistake. To be successful unfortunately means you can't take things personally and you have to do what must be done. Your scenario of companies putting people out on the street are far from laudable considering that the employee usually has to do something wrong and is held accountable. Funny how employees are the ones that can get themselves fire, not some "evil" corporation. If someone can't do the general job, then you find someone who can for not only you, but your customers. Seriously though, biomass your character? I am not really sure how that would accomplish anything. They have to "gasp" make another character? Or we could keep posting under assumed characters / identities so we can hide who we really are... cause no one does that! Last point, what is your objective in all of this? You are pretty confusing constantly defending CCP, but telling their playerbase to biomass. If your looking to be alone with CCP, this is not the way I would do it.
#1 It is a video game. A miswired house can be a potential fire or shock hazard a doctor making a mistake can endanger the patient and potentially others. What happened with EVE was an accidental server command. The result is a bit of egg in the face of CCP and whiny ass people screaming that people should be fired over them not getting to add lots of shiny green to their boards. Not exactly equal in the level of potential harm to anyone in RL but people want someone to lose his RL job over it?
#2 Except people are making it personal. They are directly saying the person should be fired and it is clear as day the reason is because they did not get their big green addition to their boards or they didn't get their huge victory and they believe that equals someones job over a damn mistake.
#3 Yes I am calling for them to voluntarily biomass their characters (The entire account and alt account's) not just posting alts. I am requesting those players to no longer play EVE online. |
Endeavour Starfleet
913
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:17:00 -
[480] - Quote
Nox Solitudo wrote:Strategos Constance wrote:
1. On the flip coin, I would hope that people wouldn't work like they are irreplaceable either. People do get fired for doing major aspects of their job incorrectly, it could be as simple as mis-wiring a house or as far out as a doctor making a mistake, in any case people are held accountable for their actions, intentional or not. However, since no one knows the performance of the individual in a grand view of things, it is unwise for anyone to tell a company how to treat their employees.
Mwahaha... I've seen a guy who accidentally shut down mainframe server, or a guy who accidentally deleted the main database of certain bank. both kept doing their job. I feel a bit sorry for that CCP guy though :)
Hopefully because the companies they worked for realized that instead of terminating employment they can better use the effort to write up better procedures to prevent accidents like that in the future.
Sure as hell beats "HEY WATERBOY!! YOUR'EEE FIREEEEEEEED!!!!!!" That some people are acting like in this topic.
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