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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.05 00:00:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Redblade
Originally by: Maya Rkell Not in favour of highslot. Not only would it mean adding utility slots to haulers (T2 battle haulers with nos, UGH), sniper Tempests with 6 1400, 2 WCS, etc.
Just make em knock 5-10% off cap each allready.
Think they can make them wcs only or restrict offensive mods in them.
And i think your cap penalty will be unbalanced considering the difference in cap recharge between ships and the use of cap booster is beeing boosted with next patch wich makes it even less of a penalty to anything big.
Er...look, making them non-combat won't happen, and would seriously screw up a good bit of PvE too.
And a cap penalty is a cap penalty. It allways hurts...3 WCS at 10% would do more than the MWD penalty which is constantly moaned about.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
WildHope
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Posted - 2005.12.05 02:01:00 -
[152]
Cumulative penalty
1 wcs = -10% maneouverability.
Although I first suggested this about 2 years ago - so I'm not expecting it to be implemented any time soon!
Wildhope ShinRa Curse Alliance (may it last 1000 generations)
Victim of the GM JV1V massacre |
neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.05 02:19:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Er...look, making them non-combat won't happen, and would seriously screw up a good bit of PvE too.
PvE? lol.. you can kill the frigates with light drones after the patch so PvE isnt really a problem. -------------
Inappropriate signature removed -Zhuge |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.12.05 02:49:00 -
[154]
Originally by: neur0n Famine Aligher'ri, please start making posts that prove a valid point, all of ur examples given above prove nothing. 5v1? we're talking about 1v1, 2v2 even 3v3, not about gank squads.
You're BoB when do you ever fight solo? But none the less, maybe some of you do... I still don't understand why so many of you even are complaining or suggestion changes for the module. You do know you can't counter everything you come up against in combat. You design/mimic a setup to do a range of things. Mostly not counter WCS's might I add. There is NOTHING you can do unless you fit for a fight to counter WCS. The reason I'm so heavy crunching on most of you is the fact it IS counterable. You guys are posting like it's some unbalanced mod that there is no way around it. Yet there is...
I mean seriously what can you do 1 on 1 vs a ship with 3 WCS's fitted? You would have to meet his strength and go like 2-3 Warp scramblers just to counter his already WEAK setup. However, that's not impossiable to do in 95% of the ships in game. Most all ships have atleast 2-3 medium slots. There is only a small percent that have 1 medium slot. Which I believe are mostly Amarr hahah.
Quote: Also what does ECM and ECCM have to do with warp core stabs? You can jam people even if they have ECCM fitted so what u said above is plain dumb. Also if you're jammed it doesnt matter if the target has wcs or not, you wont be able to put a scrambler on them anyways, so your example was just stupid.
Well most of you are comparing the fact you can't catch someone 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 due to Warp Core Stabs. I can only assume you mean because they flee. It's not due to them beating you with the module fitted. Which is the Sacrifice hence penalty you take when fitting them. The reason I mention ECM is because this whole post is about a module people arn't "countering". Only way you can prevent ECM is by countering it with ECCM. Only way you can prevent WCS is by countering it with Warp Disruption. Currently WCS has about 3 modules that can counter it. Like 96% of the game doesn't have that many modules to counter them (EX Damp->Sensor Booster, Tracking Enhancer/Computer -> Tracking Disruptor).
-Warp Scrambler -Warp Disruptor -3 size Warp Disruptors (For 0.0 use only)
So yeah, you got to counter them. Which everyone knows you have to do. A cure is in the game just noone wants to make that sacrifice of gimping mid slots to fight gimped low slot setups with warp core stabs fitted. Other than that most of you seem to think you don't have enough mid slots to compare. Not ever ship class can fit 5 lows of warp core stabs. Not everyone actually fits a full rack of WCS's unless they are running somewhere. Surley your not *****ing because you can't catch someone running. You're whinning about people who use WCS's in there PvP setups. Most of which are low uses of WCS's. Like for example a ship with 2 WCS's fitted.
Now, you have the problem of medium slots... It's unrealistic to you to fit 2xWarp Scramblers and ECT. Yet it's not unrealistic to fit 2xECCM to counter a scorpion? This is where I'm drawing a blank on most of your arguments... Most all pilots you have ran into with 1-3 Warp core Stabs can be countered by your ship. Unless you happen to be using a ship with 1 medium slot. Which are very few. Again I stress, you don't want to go that sacrifice to do it. You find it unrealistic to fit such setups. Yet you need to get with reality here. People use WCS's just like they use any other module. Only way to defend against it is to fit to counter it. Just like every other setup in the game that can render you useless or **** you off (EX - Damp Setups, ECM Setups, WCS Setups, and Snipe Setups ect).
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.12.05 02:52:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 05/12/2005 02:53:27
The last thing I want to touch base on before you completly spit on yourself and make some invalid arguement on my argument heh is that you have a in-game system on "Show Info" for players. This has been a big help for me in the past 5 months of using it. I'm talking about the "Notes" option on show info for all players in game. You know when you fight someone with WCS setups? You can actually jot down in the notes of his show info what ship he is using and that he actually might use 2-4 WCS's in that ship setup. So the next time you see him/her that unrealistic setup you keep shouting out doesn't seem so unrealistic anymore. Which helps a great deal for a number of things (Covert Op Pilots, Alts, WCS users, ECM users, Damp Uses, Snipe Users, Pirates, and ect)
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Imode
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Posted - 2005.12.05 03:06:00 -
[156]
Just double or triple the CPU requirements.
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2005.12.05 03:30:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Imode Just double or triple the CPU requirements.
Aye. ------------- Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
Removed - Innapropriate material contained in signature -Daigon
Is it becuase I am scum? :( |
danneh
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Posted - 2005.12.05 03:45:00 -
[158]
100 cpu each.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.12.05 03:45:00 -
[159]
100 cpu each.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.12.05 03:45:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Psycarne
Originally by: Imode Just double or triple the CPU requirements.
Aye.
5x30 Cpu = 150 CPU 5x60 Cpu = 300 CPU
6xCruise, 1xNoS 1xMWD,4xDamp, 1xWS = 282 CPU left on the Raven
Which will still leav 4 WCS usage with a cpr. Which will still make people whine. So doubling it is not a option.
2x90 = 180 3x90 = 270
Which will be 2xWarp Scrambler/4xWarp Disruptor to hold the target down still for the Raven setups. Not to mention no smaller ship in game will be able to fit warp core stabs in PvP no more but Battleships will be able too =)
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Imode
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Posted - 2005.12.05 05:16:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Not to mention no smaller ship in game will be able to fit warp core stabs in PvP no more but Battleships will be able too =)
I shee. Maybe a % increase per ship size.
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Andarvi
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Posted - 2005.12.05 07:19:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Andarvi on 05/12/2005 07:19:48 -15% to cap recharge.. this would gimp any battle setup nicely, while hardly affecting travel setups
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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:28:00 -
[163]
Edited by: neur0n on 05/12/2005 09:28:50
Originally by: Andarvi Edited by: Andarvi on 05/12/2005 07:19:48 -15% to cap recharge.. this would gimp any battle setup nicely, while hardly affecting travel setups
That's actually a nice idea, add the stacking penalty and ur set :D -------------
Inappropriate signature removed -Zhuge |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:32:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 05/12/2005 09:33:30
Originally by: neur0n Edited by: neur0n on 05/12/2005 09:28:50
Originally by: Andarvi Edited by: Andarvi on 05/12/2005 07:19:48 -15% to cap recharge.. this would gimp any battle setup nicely, while hardly affecting travel setups
That's actually a nice idea, add the stacking penalty and ur set :D
Not really being 15% can be countered easy with medium slots and or low slots. So the ships with high medium slots and or lots of low slots will benefit more even in PvP. Best idea thus far is making the whole warp system like ECM. Warp core stabs being a percent to the resistance not a dominate counter to warp populsion.
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:56:00 -
[165]
All i have to say....if you cant catch a 8 WCS geddon wich is slow like hell....get a use of intys/afs.
-=-
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:02:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 05/12/2005 10:01:52 If you have a problem with people consistently mounting a lot of stabs against you, mount more scrams.
What? Mounting more than 1 scram hurts your setup?
Newsflash. Mounting 5x WCS means that those Burn Eden Ravens aren't mounting BCUs and killing you quicker.
Jebus, nerf stabs? This is seriously clutching at straws for something to moan about, next you'll be wanting to nerf Shield Flux Coils.
Sig removed. Image far too big. 120x400 pixels max. 24000 bytes max. -Kaemonn
Ohnoes, I've been nerfed :( |
Kayla Feyth
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:09:00 -
[167]
If you want to go the way of increasing the CPU of a WCS then you might as well go along the lines of how you have different sizes for frigs, cruisers and bs's like you have for Afterburners and MWD's.
I would not be too sure on how much to increase CPU but splitting it in categories this way would be the best way IMHO.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:39:00 -
[168]
BS WCS +3 per module? lol -=-
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:58:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Testy Mctest Edited by: Testy Mctest on 05/12/2005 10:01:52 If you have a problem with people consistently mounting a lot of stabs against you, mount more scrams.
What? Mounting more than 1 scram hurts your setup?
Newsflash. Mounting 5x WCS means that those Burn Eden Ravens aren't mounting BCUs and killing you quicker.
Jebus, nerf stabs? This is seriously clutching at straws for something to moan about, next you'll be wanting to nerf Shield Flux Coils.
Well actually they use a combo of that with Damps. Don't need extra DPS if you're already crippled due to not being able to lock them or lock others. So yeah, they take the easy way to pvp with a scapegoat on there side (WCS)
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:58:00 -
[170]
Yes, lets remove warp core stabilizers and warp scramblers completely.
There is nothing wrong with WCS. Its more your idea that if you engage a target, you have to have the BOOM!. I'll call that an addiction.
So for all fairness, remove both or none. Otherwise there will be an exodus back to empire except for a few.
Just my oppinion.
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Filan
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:27:00 -
[171]
or remove stabs but make Haulers, Transports, barges, and freighters unable to be scrambled
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:48:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Well actually they use a combo of that with Damps. Don't need extra DPS if you're already crippled due to not being able to lock them or lock others. So yeah, they take the easy way to pvp with a scapegoat on there side (WCS)
Locking a target and pressing the F Keys is easy. What we do takes real life skill, timing and experience. You can't mimic that, something that has been proven by all the copycats. Its a rare occurance that my cap is below 80% since missles use no cap and ew uses hardly any. -15% cap recharge won't effect us at all. Infact its pretty dumb as it only effects tanking ships.
As for the argument that wcs causes blobbing and ganking. Those things were around long before we were. Back in the day, before I joined BE used dmg mods, but everyone still came out with 5x numbers. WCS have little or nothing to do with ganking.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:48:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Filan or remove stabs but make Haulers, Transports, barges, and freighters unable to be scrambled
I'm sure everyone would lurve that idea.
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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.05 15:53:00 -
[174]
Once again, the point of this topic isnt to remove wcs from the game but to give them a sensible penalty/stacking penalty, in order to make pvp more desirable/fair. You cant catch a ship with 4 stabs on an apoc or any other ship with less than 5 med slots, tho every BS can fit 4 stabs atleast. So dont give me the argument of "hey, fit more disruptors". -------------
Inappropriate signature removed -Zhuge |
Algey
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Posted - 2005.12.05 19:42:00 -
[175]
Originally by: neur0n Once again, the point of this topic isnt to remove wcs from the game but to give them a sensible penalty/stacking penalty, in order to make pvp more desirable/fair. You cant catch a ship with 4 stabs on an apoc or any other ship with less than 5 med slots, tho every BS can fit 4 stabs atleast. So dont give me the argument of "hey, fit more disruptors".
The main problem here isn't the power of the WCS, it is the fact that fitting 4 or more passive modules to a battleship doesn't significantly downgrade your fighting capacity.
There should be no chance 1 on 1 for a ship using a large chunk or its lows to defeat another ship.
Who cares if a person can't be destroyed when they can't destroy anyone either?
If people are winning regularly with huge holes in their lowslots then maybe better lowslot modules need to be made available, rather than nerfing the WCS.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.05 20:08:00 -
[176]
Cap recharge doesnt affect every combat equipped ship, but the locktime does.
especially frigates have it easier to counter wcs fitted ships easier then.
-35% locktime per wcs would b perfect imo.
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Agent2 Holtze
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Posted - 2005.12.05 20:38:00 -
[177]
Warpcore stabs are fine. They will be less usefull when tech2 scrams/disruptors come ingame.
What would be even better are if they would remove peeps from localchat thingy.
And yes i do use WCS sometimes, are there else anyway to fight when outnumbered ?
Cheers! ~ Quovis Per Adua ~ |
neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.06 11:06:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Agent2 Holtze Warpcore stabs are fine. They will be less usefull when tech2 scrams/disruptors come ingame.
What would be even better are if they would remove peeps from localchat thingy.
And yes i do use WCS sometimes, are there else anyway to fight when outnumbered ?
No they wont, tech2 Stabs will come out too so it will even up again.. -------------
Inappropriate signature removed -Zhuge |
Agent2 Holtze
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Posted - 2005.12.06 11:54:00 -
[179]
Originally by: neur0n
No they wont, tech2 Stabs will come out too so it will even up again..
Well I see the problem when single fighting, but i wouldn't leave station without a stab when fighting outnumbered. But i don't think the solution to every thing would be to nerf it to hell!
Cheers! ~ Quovis Per Adua ~ |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.06 12:35:00 -
[180]
and now its ccp`s job to find the golden ratio between the current inbalance and a nerf to hell ;)
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