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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:09:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dau Imperius Some people are just greedy morons.
Take for instance the freighters...what are they, a little over 800M in minerals to make? They sell for what? 1.2B to 1B on average? I bet there's freaks who'd up it to 1.8B if they could.
Yes, the bpo's used to manufacture the freighters are free. The minerals used no labour to transport, the buy orders took no time to process. The factories rental was free and God FORBID they make a profit on something that takes weeks to manufacture.
I'd send you money so you can go and learn the principles of business but you would probably blow it by buying high and selling low
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:21:00 -
[62]
A few moronic posts here. Hopefully this will clear some things up.
Mircoeconomic Theory In general, the theory claims that where goods are traded in a market at a price where consumers demand more goods than businesses are prepared to supply, this shortage will tend to increase the price of the goods.
Those consumers that are prepared to pay more will lead to an increase in the market price.
Greed (and the lack of it) You can accuse people of being greedy and HAC's being over priced but please bear in mind that an item is only as expensive as the highest price someone is willing to pay for it. Period. If you want to strike back, than organize a boy-cot on HAC sales. Good luck on that by the way.
Regards, Hexxx
p.s. On a personal aside, please note that I have proper spelling and grammar.
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:27:00 -
[63]
In regards to markup and profit.
It's often asked why drug companies don't charge less for medication to third world countries. After all, the pills only cost $0.10 to manufacture but the drug company charges $50 or more.
Yes, that pill costs $0.10 to produce, and so did the pill before that, and the one before that but the first pill cost $20 billion in research costs and was the only one to pass FDA approval and testing out of a batch of 13 other kinds of pills which also cost a hefty chunk of change. There is also an entire supply-chain to consider for production and then of course, logistical costs in terms of time and money.
It is a short-sighted person who overlooks fixed costs and focuses solely on the variable costs.
Now would also be a good time to read about opportunity costs if you don't understand this post.
Regards, Hexxx
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Quote:
Btw, this does not mirror the real world market in the least. I have never known any seller to mark up their product in excess of 3%, what a greedy and evil thing to do, why the very idea of making a decent profit.
Ever heard of drug companies?
Or that chip in your computer that cost 300 dollars, but only cost 20 bucks to make?
Those companies have huge developments costs , most T2 producers only need some luck.
Recruiting |
Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:33:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Hexxx on 04/12/2005 08:34:00
Originally by: Tobiaz
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Quote:
Btw, this does not mirror the real world market in the least. I have never known any seller to mark up their product in excess of 3%, what a greedy and evil thing to do, why the very idea of making a decent profit.
Ever heard of drug companies?
Or that chip in your computer that cost 300 dollars, but only cost 20 bucks to make?
Those companies have huge developments costs , most T2 producers only need some luck.
Please read about opportunity costs at this point and consider time investments, supply-chains for the processing of raw materials, and transportation of said materials once processed.
Time is money.
Just to clarify, how long do you think it takes on average for a person to "win" the lottery and get a T2 BPO? One day? One week? Six months?
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Galliui
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Posted - 2005.12.04 08:47:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Galliui on 04/12/2005 08:48:45 Sooo.... when it comes time for me to get my zealot, what messiah corp should I be contacting for a good price?
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2005.12.04 09:17:00 -
[67]
I scanned some of this thread but this is really in response to the convo posted by the OP. Apologies if this has been pointed out already.
I'm a builder and producer myself and I regularly get undercut by the competition. I find the most effective way to deal with it is to nose dive the ask price on a limited amount of stock. If they drive down the price to keep beating it then buy up their stock and sell it at your higher price.
Unless they have a surplus not on market you have a nice window to sell on your terms while he builds more.
I had a guy drop his whole stock down to mineral value. I doubled my revenue that week. He was effectively selling me minerals and building them into ships for me.
Insteading of demanding you drop your price and drawing attention to himself this guy should have just bought your ships and sold them with his making an easy 5mil less tax & brokerage.
As for the price being high, well yeah it is. It's only high because thats what people will pay. Supply is limited and demand is high. That makes it a sellers market.
That ones free, any more and I'll have to start charging a consulting fee.
"There is no good or evil. No right or wrong. No merciful all seeing god. There is only life, action and consequence" |
Day Trade
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Posted - 2005.12.04 11:23:00 -
[68]
This thread is a re-compiled version of a slightly older thread about the same issues.
If you spent more time on brokering deals with t2 producers and less duping threads with your opinions, you might save a couple of isk's. |
Ramses OverDark
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Posted - 2005.12.04 11:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hexxx A few moronic posts here. Hopefully this will clear some things up.
Mircoeconomic Theory In general, the theory claims that where goods are traded in a market at a price where consumers demand more goods than businesses are prepared to supply, this shortage will tend to increase the price of the goods.
Those consumers that are prepared to pay more will lead to an increase in the market price.
Greed (and the lack of it) You can accuse people of being greedy and HAC's being over priced but please bear in mind that an item is only as expensive as the highest price someone is willing to pay for it. Period. If you want to strike back, than organize a boy-cot on HAC sales. Good luck on that by the way.
Regards, Hexxx
p.s. On a personal aside, please note that I have proper spelling and grammar.
The issue is pricefixing, not supply and demand par se, the supply is sufficiently small to allow it, and in light of that the demand is largely a non factor.
All the T1 stuff, is self suppliable, even upto dreads, should the resources be available, an as such the prices are indeed regulated by a market economy.
T2 is ... well broken, the supply of components is reasonably well planned, you cant just buy the parts from NPCs, the T2 items themselves also cannot just be picked up from the local empire shipyards either - that should be enough to keep it player controlled.
The current lottery system that controls the BPOs... broken.
Without the BPO's available, T2 components are largely worthless to the majority of players, in stark contrast to the standard minerals, hence the stagnation of the markets in such resources, were those BPOs more widely available, then the thirst for the resources to build them would be huge, and so would the migration of players from empire to 0.3 - 0.0 to acumilate them.
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.12.04 12:07:00 -
[70]
Edited by: VossKarr on 04/12/2005 12:09:42 CCP are the ones to blame for the HACs being overpriced.
There's simply not enough supply and too high a demand for their prices to stabilize at some significantly lower point. They're perfectly able to see the situation that has developed and yet they do nothing. I bet they're even happy about it, probably saying: "Oh look, we've got price fixing cartels in our very own game, woohoo! Realism! Aren't we great?"
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super4lt
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Posted - 2005.12.04 12:13:00 -
[71]
Originally by: VossKarr Edited by: VossKarr on 04/12/2005 12:09:42 CCP are the ones to blame for the HACs being overpriced.
No.
Its the fools that keeps buying them. If everyone stopped buying hacs today the price would drop like a sack of potatoes.
Super4lt is here to let yall know what time it is
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BOldMan
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Posted - 2005.12.04 12:17:00 -
[72]
Originally by: super4lt
Originally by: VossKarr Edited by: VossKarr on 04/12/2005 12:09:42 CCP are the ones to blame for the HACs being overpriced.
No.
Its the fools that keeps buying them. If everyone stopped buying hacs today the price would drop like a sack of potatoes.
In fact is CCP fault. You cannot delivery a unlimited source of money for only 1/2000 players ratio and wonder why market go crasy and customers are unhappy. Demands are what they are, but supplies are screw up badly.
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super4lt
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Posted - 2005.12.04 12:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: BOldMan
Originally by: super4lt
Originally by: VossKarr Edited by: VossKarr on 04/12/2005 12:09:42 CCP are the ones to blame for the HACs being overpriced.
No.
Its the fools that keeps buying them. If everyone stopped buying hacs today the price would drop like a sack of potatoes.
In fact is CCP fault. You cannot delivery a unlimited source of money for only 1/2000 players ratio and wonder why market go crasy and customers are unhappy. Demands are what they are, but supplies are screw up badly.
NAGA sells them for 80 dont they? So is it NAGA thats beeing extra nice or is it the other ones thats beeing extra greedy?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
Super4lt is here to let yall know what time it is
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2005.12.04 13:25:00 -
[74]
this discussion is Miner II old... (history lesson)
back in the days when there were only two infinite run blueprint copies of the Miner II around they were selling at about 5 million isk per unit (production price at the time approx 30k)
thats 16600% profits
production price of what 30 mills and selling for 130 mills is approx 430% profits. Granted that 16600% * 30 mills which equals is close to 5 billion (a bit from the pricetag most can afford).
Eventually the Miner II bpo was released through agent missions. You could get a mission offer if you had done between 300 - 500 missions for a single agent. The mission wasnt all that hard even... Anyway, slowly but surely the price of Miner II's was driven down to a "reasonable" profit percentage of 300% (considering the demand and production times).
This does boil down to "whats an accepted profit %". As the Miner II example shows percentages isnt really a good tool to measure that. Is it for the producers do decide? Should it be a "moral" issue for them?
The way I see it is the distribution of T2 bpos is what buggers this all up really (not a jab at the lottery system). Its the fact that in a supply&demand market system you get more people producing/inventing the more popular items than the not so popular ones. Meaning - if you have a hit, someone tries to get into your market too.
If the Pangalactic gankablaster II would be the uber cool thing to sell, then i'd want to go to my research agent and ask him why he hasnt found a way to make that stuff for me!
Can this be done? Yes... The game lists a base price for all items, if the mean market price for the past month has been ALOT higher than the baseprice the research agents get to work and "invent" more until the mean market price isnt "profitable" enough for further research.
Dont get me wrong... would still be quite profitable, just not 100 millions per advanced cruiser unit.
People: see this... 10 units give the producer a BILLION isk in profits. You are the ones doing it, accept it or dont buy.
simple as that ...new sig coming up Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Ilmonstre
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Posted - 2005.12.04 13:34:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/12/2005 18:03:50 Do people not understand Economics 101?
It doesn't matter what price the producer sells at. The price will stabilize based on supply and demand.
If people stop buying them, the price will fall.
They aren't "greedy *******." There is no conspiracy, no price-fixing cabal.
This is true for all supply-limited T2 products in EVE.
this is what i see as the only post that shows what people need to do to actually get the prices down
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