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Arior Meitoriesis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been curious about this matter when flying a Droneboat. Small and Medium drones, they are straightforwards for me, but when it comes to Heavy and Sentries, what situations and contexts dictate when to use each? |
Lychton Kondur
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm replying to this because I am curious about the answer as well. I was thinking about maybe using a sentry drone to counter station games, gatecamps, or just add crazy dps on a belt. |
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arior Meitoriesis wrote:I have been curious about this matter when flying a Droneboat. Small and Medium drones, they are straightforwards for me, but when it comes to Heavy and Sentries, what situations and contexts dictate when to use each?
It depends on the situation and what you are using them for. Are you using drones in a mission or in a deadspace plex?
I fly a Rattlesnake on most L4 missions and carry a mix of sentries, lights and mediums. Heavies are just too slow for me. I'd much rather use sentries. You might already know this, but sentries don't move and are pretty much useless at close ranges.
When using sentries in an L4, I warp in at 100km, pop sentries and let them do their thing on the smaller targets while raining down cruises on the bigger targets. Then if the mobs get too close to me, I recall the sentries, hit the MJD and jump 100km out, re-deploy sentries and continue.
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Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
90
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
As for PvP:
Using drones as a primary damage system, is really a horrible idea. Drones are slow, can be killed, and really don't have that great of tracking. The best drones to use are warrior II's because they can actually do something to light tackle, and perhaps Valk II For when you are fighting cruisers / BS out side of scram / web range. I would also like to mention that ec-300 / ec-600 are broken as hell, and if you can fit a flight of them do so.
All of the other drones I have not listed, are worthless.
However to asnwer your question effectively:
Heavy drones- will do little to no damage to a target that is not scrammed and webbed. (It better not have an AB)
Sentry: Again for PvP (outside of slowcat fleets) Sentries are horrible, and can easily be killed / or out tracked. They are very underwhelming. Especially when you consider that all of that space could be filled with EC-300/600 Warriors / Valks. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
511
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
Sentry drones on the new Dominix are very good for PvE. |
Arior Meitoriesis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just to reply, it's the use of drones strictly for PvP.
So, PvP people, what are the "depends" that exist out there that dictate which type of drone (Heavy vs Sentry). I am appealing to the wisdom of experiences past that have ocurred involving drone warfare. ^^-á |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
90
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arior Meitoriesis wrote:Just to reply, it's the use of drones strictly for PvP.
So, PvP people, what are the "depends" that exist out there that dictate which type of drone (Heavy vs Sentry). I am appealing to the wisdom of experiences past that have ocurred involving drone warfare. ^^-á
Read my post again about drones, I cover this question. |
Arior Meitoriesis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Chessur wrote:Arior Meitoriesis wrote:Just to reply, it's the use of drones strictly for PvP.
So, PvP people, what are the "depends" that exist out there that dictate which type of drone (Heavy vs Sentry). I am appealing to the wisdom of experiences past that have ocurred involving drone warfare. ^^-á Read my post again about drones, I cover this question.
Read it, much obliged. |
Arior Meitoriesis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
So just one question, can Drones, say if I am not in Scrambling duty, can they still be used as a complementary weapons system for my Guns/Missles at the very least? |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
449
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 01:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
I honestly dont have much experience with Sentries, excepting a few Carrier engagements where we dropped Sentries to blap Falcons or Arazu's. The trouble with Sentries imo, is that they aren't mobile. (duh) So if you need to be mobile, you leave them/lose them or spend a lot of time dropping, targeting, recalling, dropping, etc. And, most fights are very mobile.
SO: I like Heavies much better. They do great against BC and bigger targets. Primarily they should be used in BS fights. 4 flights of Ogre II's = about 1200 DPS on the field, and people really don't shoot drones in those kind of engagements.
As for other drones, I like ecm drones personally, over mediums or lights, in *most* other situations |
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Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
91
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Posted - 2013.07.06 01:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arior Meitoriesis wrote:So just one question, can Drones, say if I am not in Scrambling duty, can they still be used as a complementary weapons system for my Guns/Missles at the very least?
Hell ya! like I said, if you can fit a flight of dishonor drones (read ec-300/600) I highly suggest that you do. In my typhoon, I have 2 sets of warriors, one of valks, and another of ec-300. Its a wonderful thing <3 |
Q 5
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 03:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
As far as pve is concerned I use sentry drones for rats that like to park out about 25+ (BS), And anything like (Angels) they like to get right upon you, kill all the riff rafe first (frigs / Cruiser / BC) the when BS are circling you at close range release the Ogres and watch them destroy BS, (this assuming you can tank them BS), which...I do. |
Arior Meitoriesis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 06:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your advices are much appreciated. I have a much more clear understanding now.
Thank you all. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 09:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am not sure that you will have from the above posts.
Drone mechanics and the Interface has it's flaws but it is important to look at the combat platforms available and match the drones to them and the type of PV, some of them are arguably among the best in class.
In medium size ships such as the Vexor type, myrm and prophecy then for PVP you will want heavies (unless you are fitting for large fleet work).
Here you will need full tackle scram and web to lock the opponent down, this also means you can remain in close proximity in case you need to recall them. As mentioned this is where the combat platform is important, these ships can be very tough or very high damage and thus brawl really well.
At battleship levels most of the advice holds true but they often have the capacity to carry other drone types and a flight of sentries can be useful.
Even without drone tracking mods a Domi can drop longer range drones to snipe and yet still be fit to brawl. Micrjump drives can be used to reposition but also move you onto an enemy. Drone control range is from your ship to the target so sentries dropped at range 100km away can engage a ship right next to you. Want to switch drones? then disconnect from them you can reconnect as long as you have bandwidth despite the distance.
Finally drones are ammo and can be a pain but treat them as such. Need to warp out, then leave them don't wait. Carry a few extra and refit at stations especially at battleship level.
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Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 15:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
i have zero pvp experience but heres what i have floating around in my brain let me know how wrong i am so i can continue to learn.
1) drones are like ammo, accept that some will die but you have drone bay full of them 2) web + scram/neut your target and heavies/sentries will have no problem hitting your target for very high applied dps
If I want to fly a navy dominix I was looking at neuts in my highs rather than a missile system(small dps compared to the power of neuts in my newb brain) |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
95
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 15:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have a big problem flying drone boats / non kiting setups in PvP. Drons have a really bad AI system, they are slow, and whats worse is it take syou such al ong time to switch between differnt drone types. Throw in a hurried warp off, and now you are leaving drones on field. They can be killed, and are just generally a head ache. A heavy neut domi is scary- but ast long as you stay outside 25k- is no threat.
Don't get me wrong the navy vexor is really a step in the right direction. I feel that if you really wanted to try and make pvp work in for a drone boat, navy vexor is head and shoulders above every other ship (besides carriers). before you ask- yes I feel taht the navy vexor is far more usefull and viable in PvP than a dominix, in almost all situations. |
Matt Emery
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 14:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
drones in pvp are amazing, you just have to not be fail...
I was flying a rapier with very little dps but webs/scram, we locked down a Hyperion with dual active tank set up... 2 shield ishtars and it melted in seconds. It wasent shitfitted, he was fitted well... We were just better with our drones :)
p.s we're also recruiting, hook me up ingame if you want to learn to pvp properly :P |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1088
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 08:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sentries are great if you use them well. They have the tracking of mega pulse lasers so if you put them down a bit away from the fight they will hit great.
Heavies however i loathe with a passion.. Basically don't use them until you have your target webbed and scrammed.. Watching your ogres conga-line after a ******* drake is depressing as ****. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
215
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you can slow your target to a crawl and blow up its signature, and you can get to danger-close range while doing so, then Heavies will throw insane amounts of damage - with the racial drone specialization skills, they benefit from stacking damage bonuses to a greater degree than Sentries - but aside from that, I suppose it's basically analogous to the choice between autocannons and artillery, or blasters and railguns, or pulse and beam lasers.
I did have one interesting experience in a Vexor versus a Thrasher one time. He was hammering a friendly; I warped in at about 10 or 15 km, dropped three Garde II's, then lit my MWD and charged in. Scram, double-web, and the Thrasher kinda vaporized. That was when I realized I'd forgotten to fire my blasters... "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3093
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
You use sentries for targets that are far, and heavies when brawling in scram range. A PVP Ishtar can pop things from 70km as well as at 0.
Heavy and medium drones are slow, and not meant for sending out to distances. Drones have stellar tracking, especially on a Dominix. While the drone UI is terrible, learn to use key shortcuts and take advantage of Abandon/reconnect to drones.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Ristlin Wakefield
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
355
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 15:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chessur wrote:I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
As for PvP:
Using drones as a primary damage system, is really a horrible idea. Drones are slow, can be killed, and really don't have that great of tracking. The best drones to use are warrior II's because they can actually do something to light tackle, and perhaps Valk II For when you are fighting cruisers / BS out side of scram / web range. I would also like to mention that ec-300 / ec-600 are broken as hell, and if you can fit a flight of them do so.
All of the other drones I have not listed, are worthless.
However to asnwer your question effectively:
Heavy drones- will do little to no damage to a target that is not scrammed and webbed. (It better not have an AB)
Sentry: Again for PvP (outside of slowcat fleets) Sentries are horrible, and can easily be killed / or out tracked. They are very underwhelming. Especially when you consider that all of that space could be filled with EC-300/600 Warriors / Valks.
This guy is wrong about everything, lol.
Heavy/Sentries are both great and it really just comes down to how you plan to fight your opponent.
I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license. |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
114
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 15:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:Chessur wrote:I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
As for PvP:
Using drones as a primary damage system, is really a horrible idea. Drones are slow, can be killed, and really don't have that great of tracking. The best drones to use are warrior II's because they can actually do something to light tackle, and perhaps Valk II For when you are fighting cruisers / BS out side of scram / web range. I would also like to mention that ec-300 / ec-600 are broken as hell, and if you can fit a flight of them do so.
All of the other drones I have not listed, are worthless.
However to asnwer your question effectively:
Heavy drones- will do little to no damage to a target that is not scrammed and webbed. (It better not have an AB)
Sentry: Again for PvP (outside of slowcat fleets) Sentries are horrible, and can easily be killed / or out tracked. They are very underwhelming. Especially when you consider that all of that space could be filled with EC-300/600 Warriors / Valks. This guy is wrong about everything, lol. Heavy/Sentries are both great and it really just comes down to how you plan to fight your opponent.
No im really not wrong about what I said. I have a lot more PvP experience than you. So really, I do know what I am talking about. Heavy / Sentries are useless in solo / small gang PvP. They are useless because they are either slow / immobile and have horrible tracking / can be destroyed. |
Kalihira
Interstellar Newcomers Inc. Home Front Coalition
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 16:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chessur wrote:I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
As for PvP:
Using drones as a primary damage system, is really a horrible idea. Drones are slow, can be killed, and really don't have that great of tracking. The best drones to use are warrior II's because they can actually do something to light tackle, and perhaps Valk II For when you are fighting cruisers / BS out side of scram / web range. I would also like to mention that ec-300 / ec-600 are broken as hell, and if you can fit a flight of them do so.
All of the other drones I have not listed, are worthless.
However to asnwer your question effectively:
Heavy drones- will do little to no damage to a target that is not scrammed and webbed. (It better not have an AB)
Sentry: Again for PvP (outside of slowcat fleets) Sentries are horrible, and can easily be killed / or out tracked. They are very underwhelming. Especially when you consider that all of that space could be filled with EC-300/600 Warriors / Valks.
dont listen to this guy, he doesnt know what hes talking about
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3093
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 16:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chessur wrote: No im really not wrong about what I said. I have a lot more PvP experience than you. So really, I do know what I am talking about. Heavy / Sentries are useless in solo / small gang PvP. They are useless because they are either slow / immobile and have horrible tracking / can be destroyed.
Yeah, unfortunately you are quite wrong.
Ogre II tracking: 0.36 (all V's, no ship bonuses, no Omnis) Garde II tracking on new Domi: 0.0675 (all Vs, 1xOmni) with 56.25km optimal
Feel free to compare those numbers to any large turrets.
Yes, heavies are slow, which is quite irrelevant as they are meant to be used at brawling range against scrammed and webbed targets. Yes, sentries are immobile, which is a feature you can use to your advantage.
Yes, they can be destroyed, unfortunately they have tons of EHP and there's always more of them. And you waste your damage on drones, while the drone boat hammers you.
They are both far from useless in solo/small gang pvp.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
114
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 16:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roime wrote:Chessur wrote: No im really not wrong about what I said. I have a lot more PvP experience than you. So really, I do know what I am talking about. Heavy / Sentries are useless in solo / small gang PvP. They are useless because they are either slow / immobile and have horrible tracking / can be destroyed.
Yeah, unfortunately you are quite wrong. Ogre II tracking: 0.36 (all V's, no ship bonuses, no Omnis) Garde II tracking on new Domi: 0.0675 (all Vs, 1xOmni) with 56.25km optimal Feel free to compare those numbers to any large turrets. Yes, heavies are slow, which is quite irrelevant as they are meant to be used at brawling range against scrammed and webbed targets. Yes, sentries are immobile, which is a feature you can use to your advantage. Yes, they can be destroyed, unfortunately they have tons of EHP and there's always more of them. And you waste your damage on drones, while the drone boat hammers you. They are both far from useless in solo/small gang pvp.
You bring your drone boat, and i will use my ScYFI- should we do battle? Give me a time and place. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3093
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 20:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I live in Soli, feel free to drop by whenever you feel like it.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Mr Morita
Calamitous-Intent
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:Chessur wrote:I will not discuss PvE, because if you are using drones in PvE you are doing it wrong (unless you are in a carrier blitzing 5's)
As for PvP:
Using drones as a primary damage system, is really a horrible idea. Drones are slow, can be killed, and really don't have that great of tracking. The best drones to use are warrior II's because they can actually do something to light tackle, and perhaps Valk II For when you are fighting cruisers / BS out side of scram / web range. I would also like to mention that ec-300 / ec-600 are broken as hell, and if you can fit a flight of them do so.
All of the other drones I have not listed, are worthless.
However to asnwer your question effectively:
Heavy drones- will do little to no damage to a target that is not scrammed and webbed. (It better not have an AB)
Sentry: Again for PvP (outside of slowcat fleets) Sentries are horrible, and can easily be killed / or out tracked. They are very underwhelming. Especially when you consider that all of that space could be filled with EC-300/600 Warriors / Valks. This guy is wrong about everything, lol. Heavy/Sentries are both great and it really just comes down to how you plan to fight your opponent.
Drones are good depending on how you use them. The thing with drones is that with heavy drones, you basically have to wait until the drones get on target to apply damage (they're slow). The drawback with sentries is that they are stationary, which means if you're in a rolling fight you'll probably have to abandon them. Drones are good as a complementary damage system, but I think they fall short as a primary damage system as you're going to either comprimise your mobility or you're going to comprimise your time to kill targets, and time in PVP is everything. It's better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep.
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warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sentry Drones are decent for POS sieges, if you wanted to bring your ishtar to a fight and don't want to waste ammo unless you see an actual moving target :P |
Tesoni Daven
BENEVOLENC3 Wormhole Kaleidoscope Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Heavy drones are kind of ****, due too them being very very slow. But even they have niche uses.
Sentries are just kind of amazing. Domis are perfectly viable mission boats for newer players. Ishtars are excellent for plexing and such. Structure bashes as someone else mentioned.
And then of course carriers absolutely shine with sentries.
And plently of other BSs work very well with sentries as long as they are in situations where they don't need to move much. I like to use T2 sentries on my Panther, just cause of the massive DPS boost.
EDIT: And if you use T1 sentries, you can just drop them and LEAVE them, and not realy ******* care. |
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