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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1482
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Posted - 2013.07.12 21:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:The truth reveals itself. This is XG's master plan to get everybody to join JUSTK! Our first recruit under this new policy is MinutemanKirk. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
319
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Posted - 2013.07.12 21:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
The Parisi brothel is now accepting Gallente workers in order to help the Gallente increase their wallets. Work a few nights, you will be able to buy your own Tristan! |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
98
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Posted - 2013.07.12 22:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:These are all great suggestions, but unfortunately a bit misguided. For example, using smartbombs in FW kills your faction standings - due to you hitting members in your own militia.
That's why like I said you could still spider tank navitas while everyone is staying outside the range of each other's smart bombs. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1482
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Posted - 2013.07.12 22:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:X Gallentius wrote:These are all great suggestions, but unfortunately a bit misguided. For example, using smartbombs in FW kills your faction standings - due to you hitting members in your own militia. That's why like I said you could still spider tank navitas while everyone is staying outside the range of each other's smart bombs. Upon further review, this is a brilliant plan. We will have our Ship Fitting Gurus get in tough with yours and we can work out the details of this fleet setup. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
120
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Posted - 2013.07.12 23:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Could you imagine the damage they could do if they found a comparable T2 frig that could use the same setup??? Frightening to say the least. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
329
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Posted - 2013.07.13 04:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'm bored so I'll bite...
Have a long range kite fleet, say Condor's with missile range rigs and sebo's to boost their engagement range upwards to 50km. You could also use Kestrel's but they would be a bit slower while having more range and dps to work with. Sprinkle them at random points around the ball at ranges between 30-40km so that the drones don't have a big blob of ships they can easily move between. The Tristan's themselves are short range fit, if the fit in OP is still the standard, so they would be no threat to the kiters. The drone swarm would easily kill any ship it catches, but since the kiters are spread out the drones have to spend more time in transit and less time doing dps so the kite fleet has more time to alpha the individual fatcats further reducing overall damage output.
Basically it's the old divide and conquer tactic.
Some additional annoyances for the fatcat fleet could be additional dps wings that warp in on the kite ships that are on the opposite side of the ball as the drone swarm, effectively doubling the distant the swarm would have to travel if it wanted to engage the new ships. The time involved in shifting the drones that far would allow the alpha fleet to target at least a couple of ships before warping off while at the same time reducing the swarm damage to zero since it's in transit. You could have smartbomb fit ships intercept the drones while they are transitioning thus eliminating the issue of the bombs hitting friendlies. The kite ships would also be fit with sensor damps to harass the tristan fc's when they are identified.
jeez that was more of a wall of text than I though
TL:DR
Kite better, blob less and use drone travel time against them.
...heh kind of ironic that the delayed damage of missile would actually be used to an advantage against the delayed damage of drones. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
998
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Zappity wrote:The problem is that I've never been able to engage with Faction Warfare due to the inevitable pendulum nature of it and the lack of end game. It makes caring about the trolling difficult. "When the fw farmer saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more systems to farm."
fixed.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1482
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Posted - 2013.07.13 16:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Marc Callan wrote:Zappity wrote:The problem is that I've never been able to engage with Faction Warfare due to the inevitable pendulum nature of it and the lack of end game. It makes caring about the trolling difficult. "When the fw farmer saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more systems to farm." fixed. Sadly, we have been spending too much time trying to counter this Fat-Cat doctrine to farm anything lately. We're starving! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1482
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Posted - 2013.07.13 16:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Klymer wrote:..kiting Kestrel... kiting Condor... Kestrel... kiting, Condor, and other solutions full of questionable morality... Although we may starve to death fighting this Fat-Cat doctrine, we will do so with honor. Kiting missile boats are out of the question. |
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
142
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Posted - 2013.07.13 17:03:00 -
[70] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Klymer wrote:..kiting Kestrel... kiting Condor... Kestrel... kiting, Condor, and other solutions full of questionable morality... Although we may starve to death fighting this Fat-Cat doctrine, we will do so with honor. Kiting missile boats are out of the question.
Kiting missile boats are for the Caldari pubbies anyways. I say the best way to combat this Fat-Cat doctrine is to fight it with its own juice. Copy the fits, enact it as militia policy, and hope that you can stop the tides from turning by creating your own minimal resource doctrine. Then again, since Khan started this first, it means that no matter what the Gallente do they'll go broke first.
Sad times in Black Rise. Arma Purgatorium - For the State, For the Corporation Faction Warfare, PvP, Training
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Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
120
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Posted - 2013.07.13 17:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
Not sad times. More like, exciting times! It's alwas fun devising new ways to defeat your enemy! |
Baron' Soontir Fel
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
2
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Posted - 2013.07.14 00:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Sadly, we have been spending too much time trying to counter this Fat-Cat doctrine to farm anything lately. We're starving!
Takes too much time to counter it, so you use it? |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
153
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Klymer wrote:..kiting Kestrel... kiting Condor... Kestrel... kiting, Condor, and other solutions full of questionable morality... Although we may starve to death fighting this Fat-Cat doctrine, we will do so with honor. Kiting missile boats are out of the question. I would rather perspire and expire humping my Gallente drones with dignity than stroking missiles into a launcher. It seems the Caldari that adopted the fat-cat doctrine agree. Alternately, we could just declare cultural victory and end the war. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
998
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Marc Callan wrote:Zappity wrote:The problem is that I've never been able to engage with Faction Warfare due to the inevitable pendulum nature of it and the lack of end game. It makes caring about the trolling difficult. "When the fw farmer saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more systems to farm." fixed. Sadly, we have been spending too much time trying to counter this Fat-Cat doctrine to farm anything lately. We're starving!
I have a questions about assigning drones.
After the drones are assigned to the fc will they keep attacking as long as the fc is alive or will they stop attacking if you kill the ship that assigned them?
Could the fc use a merlin or punisher?
I'm assuming the drones used the skill bonuses and ship/module bonuses of the person assigning them and not the fc and the fc's ship.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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masternerdguy
nul-li-fy Nulli Secunda
1233
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Posted - 2013.07.14 05:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
I think the problem is you aren't thinking big enough.
To counter a fleet as fierce and innovative as Fat-Cats, simple frigates are not enough.
There is only one way to counter this doctrine: You need to get a fleet of 40 lokis, 40 proteuses, 20 guardians, at a minimum. Adding some triage carriers may be needed.. You will also need a titan and cyno. Hot dropping is the only viable solution.
Although it doesn't guarantee victory, with a little luck and some good FCing I bet the gallente can pull it off. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1483
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I have a questions about assigning drones.
After the drones are assigned to the fc will they keep attacking as long as the fc is alive or will they stop attacking if you kill the ship that assigned them?
Could the fc use a merlin or punisher?
I'm assuming the drones used the skill bonuses and ship/module bonuses of the person assigning them and not the fc and the fc's ship.
I hope this is a question for Kahn. I, personally, don't feel like helping them improve an already terrifying fleet setup by answering your questions. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1483
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:
There is only one way to counter this doctrine: You need to get a fleet of 40 lokis, 40 proteuses, 20 guardians, at a minimum. Adding some triage carriers may be needed.. You will also need a titan and cyno. Hot dropping is the only viable solution.
Couple problems here: 1. Those ships are irrelevant to plex warfare (as anybody from Nulli Secunda should know), and 2. We're broke! How are we supposed to afford those ships??!!! |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1389
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
So, bottom-line it for me: is this a sad, bored-on-Sunday troll, or are you actually asking something? "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1483
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Posted - 2013.07.14 22:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:So, bottom-line it for me: is this a sad, bored-on-Sunday troll, or are you actually asking something? I was reporting to the world about this terrifying fleet setup, and why it is a game changer. So no, not a bored-on-Sunday troll ( the original post was not on a Sunday), nor was I asking for anything - people just started giving their suggestions.
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Night Sword
Deception Fades B O R G
0
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Posted - 2013.07.15 10:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Zappity wrote:Who could possibly find enjoyment in being in such a fleet? Faction Warfare, e-uni style. in fact khan who makes these fleets is official clown of Caldari miltiia so he has huge number of followers having fun and exploding !
I love how I keep seeing EVERYWHERE members of OMG bashing Khan. Maybe if you spent even half the time you put in talking crap and awoking other FW members into contributing and working together with FW members things would be different
Perhaps not the most interesting of fleet doctrines to fly in out there but certainly is thinking outside the box as opposed to the flavor of the month/cookie cutter fleets |
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
474
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Posted - 2013.07.15 11:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Morgan Torry wrote:Kiting missile boats are for the Caldari pubbies anyways. ....... ........Sad times in Black Rise.
Oh ...
How mean.
EDIT: I mean - YEAH spot on. What kind of spaky would do that!!!! Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
ImmutableDark
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
36
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Posted - 2013.07.15 13:35:00 -
[82] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Last night Caldari Admiral Kahn "KAHHHNNNN!!!!" Farshatok took the fight to a whole new level. In one fell swoop he nullified the only two remaining advantages the Gallente had with what our Intelligence Sources are calling the "Fat-Cat Doctrine".
The Fat-Cat is a simple fitted Tristan hull with two objectives: 1) Remove the effect of lousy Caldari pilots from the battle by concentrating as much of the piloting, targeting, and basically everything to the FC, and 2) Deny FDU pilots any worthwhile loot.
Bottom Line: Kahn plans to starve us to death, just like he tried to starve Kirk to death by transporting him to the center of a planet. This is an all-out war of attrition - to the bitter end.
Here is the fit: [Fat Cat, Tristan] Small Shield Transporter I 200mm Autocannon Ix2 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender I Warp Scrambler I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Overdrive Injector Ix2 Small Capacitor Control Circuit Ix3 8x Tech 1 Drones
The fleet doctrine is brilliant. Set up inside a FW Plex, turn on the MWD, hit "keep at range 500" to the FC, launch drones and assign them to the FC, put the small shield transporter on the FC (since he is the only one actively piloting and targeting anything). And wait. The only thing the fleet members need to do is engage anybody who attacks the FC with their autocannons and scram. "F1" and "F2" isn't very hard - even for a Squid.
What makes this fit a "game changer" however, is the fact that there is no loot that the Federation Militia pilots can use to replenish their ship losses. There is nothing of value here with the sole exception of the Capacitor Control Circuits. In fact, the CCC's cost 3x the rest of the ship. This might sound "moronic" at first, but in reality it's brilliant because rigs don't drop and so an enemy fleet can't use them to resupply their forces. That, coupled with the fact that Gallente are at Tier 1 and cannot make isk in FW, will likely prove to be the last nail in the coffin for the Gallente Militia. We will not be able to endure our losses for much longer.
Difficult times are ahead.
Squids aren't that smart... I've never doubted Khan's genius .... ask anyone you like. The way the church funds it's non-committal cowardly kiting missile ships is a very simple process.
1. I sit in Jita and buy people's souls for 1million isk. 2. Doubt set's into the mind of the sinner who's eternity now belongs to me. 3. The sinner comes to the realisation that I am precisely the last person they want in charge of their eternal soul. 4. We come to an arrangement usually in order of 10bil isk for the return of said soul as it's market value has risen since I've been whoring it out whilst it's been in my possession. 5. Laney uses his bogan beer stare mind trick to swindle my hard earned funds. 6. Laney builds kiting hookbills. |
Selmak Kado
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Innovia Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.07.15 13:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
The best Counter against Khan fleets, are Khan jokes :P |
Trensk Mikakka
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Innovia Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.07.15 20:21:00 -
[84] - Quote
Khan gives me a migrane sometimes, I swear. |
Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
27631
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Posted - 2013.07.15 23:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
What about Light missile Talwars? And kestrels if you can't use dessies
Light missiles has a great alpha and great damage projection. A large group of t1 fit talwars can easily wipe out a frig gang, and with the high volley damage the tristans wouldn't benefit much from their RR. We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
627
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Posted - 2013.07.16 02:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:What about Light missile Talwars? And kestrels if you can't use dessies
Light missiles has a great alpha and great damage projection. A large group of t1 fit talwars can easily wipe out a frig gang, and with the high volley damage the tristans wouldn't benefit much from their RR.
I dont think you understand. We have utterly lost. The only thing left to do is constantly complain to CCP to fix faction war while giving them no suggestions, and at the same time cynically claim that all this conflict is working as intended as though pvp is not the goal of fw but occupancy roleplay is. |
Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
27637
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Posted - 2013.07.16 12:21:00 -
[87] - Quote
Seems like I don't undestand it then. Nor do I understand how a bunch of tristans can stop you from fighting back. We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
143
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Posted - 2013.07.16 12:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Seems like I don't undestand it then. Nor do I understand how a bunch of tristans can stop you from fighting back.
That's because you obviously have not been against such brilliance as this doctrine. Be the EFT warrior all you want, but this is hilariously OP in practice. Just give it a few weeks and RvB will catch on. Break the curve now and start forming fleets of these bad boys yourself and you'll dominate your front as Khan is in Black Rise now. Arma Purgatorium - For the State, For the Corporation Faction Warfare, PvP, Training
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
477
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Posted - 2013.07.16 14:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Seems like I don't undestand it then. Nor do I understand how a bunch of tristans can stop you from fighting back.
Imagine being dropped in a bee hive and having 100's of bees stinging you every few seconds.
Doesn't matter how big you are - the chances of killing many of the bees before you die are not good.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
2246
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:52:00 -
[90] - Quote
HTFU Gallente scum. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
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