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Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 17:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Which super implant reduces 173.5 m exp radius to 108, and where can I get some? ] My apologies... you are absolutely correct. I made a mistake.
Explosion Vel. 109.62 Explosion Radius 206 Damage 730 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 17:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Most of us don't hit cruisers with Furies. Why not if it is the best choice?
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Most of us don't hit cruisers with Furies. Why not if it is the best choice?
How is hitting 100 m sig cruisers with 200 m exp radius Furies the best choice? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Most of us don't hit cruisers with Furies. Why not if it is the best choice?
it's not the best choice for cruisers. Even with +6% implants for GMP and TNP fury cruise with 2x rigor2 and 1x rigor 1 gets explosion radius down to 163m and explosion velocity is at 92m/s
I'm not even sure how you got your numbers for velocity and explosion radius but it sure as hell was not from fury missiles. Judging from your quoted damage per missile it sounds far more like you were quoting your precision missile stats, 500 damage per missile is a fairly low skilled pilot using precision cruise or you're not using 4 BCS. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Most of us don't hit cruisers with Furies. Why not if it is the best choice? How is hitting 100 m sig cruisers with 200 m exp radius Furies the best choice? Which Cruiser is that?
What missile would you choose? Also include a target painter for increase signature radius.
Big and slow Arch Angel Centurion Signature radius: 150 m Orbit velocity: 200 m/s |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
would use t1 or faction novas |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:would use t1 or faction novas Even if you had one or more target painters? |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I'm not even sure how you got your numbers....
I was in error.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:Most of us don't hit cruisers with Furies. Why not if it is the best choice? How is hitting 100 m sig cruisers with 200 m exp radius Furies the best choice? Which Cruiser is that? What missile would you choose? Also include a target painter for increase signature radius. Big and slow Arch Angel Centurion Signature radius: 150 m Orbit velocity: 200 m/s
Gistum Depredator Sig: 100 m Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Marauder Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Liquidator Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
etc... you know, common mission rats. A lot smaller than 200 m, don't you think? And they might... you know, move. Some ppl might even consider Precision or CN. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:
Gistum Depredator Sig: 100 m Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Marauder Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Liquidator Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
etc... you know, common mission rats. A lot smaller than 200 m, don't you think? And they might... you know, move. Some ppl might even consider Precision or CN.
Aren't those max velocities and not orbital velocities? Does that make a difference? |
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Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
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Posted - 2013.07.08 18:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:would use t1 or faction novas Even if you had one or more target painters? Furies do 40% more raw damage than T1s, so wouldn't there have to be at a minimum a 40% reduction in Fury applied damage before T1s were the correct choice?
Ok so people are talking about target painters which is something I would also like to clear up.
A PWNAGE painter has a cycle time of 10 seconds.
It has an optimal range of 45km.
A Navy raven is most likely going to be quite far away from it's targets, but for the sake of this particular point let's say all targets are within 45km.
Cruise missiles move at 10575m/s
So it will take approximately 4.5 seconds for the missiles to reach the target.
So the final question that needs to be asked is: do you kill everything at 45km in a volley number of a multiple of 2? Because if not you are wasting 5 seconds of target painting per cycle every time you use an odd number of volleys to blow something up.
Putting this into a real situation a raven is not going to be within 45km of it's targets and more to the tune of 70+. At this range firstly, the painter may not always apply and secondly the synchronisation between painting and volleys landing is much more skewed and you're going to end up wasting many partial cycles.
On a ship that is already bonused for explosion radius I feel target painters are NOT worth the hassle just so you can make fury cruises hit for insignificantly more damage than regular cruise missiles even without a painter. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:
Gistum Depredator Sig: 100 m Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Marauder Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
Gistum Liquidator Sig: 120 Speed: 450 m/s
etc... you know, common mission rats. A lot smaller than 200 m, don't you think? And they might... you know, move. Some ppl might even consider Precision or CN.
Aren't those max velocities and not orbital velocities? Does that make a difference? Gistum Depredator Signature radius: 100 m Orbit velocity: 225 m/s 625 Shield 20% Resist 625 Armor 20% Resist 625 Hull Note: this Cruiser is so weak that it is a one shot with any missile type.
The 20% is only to Explosive. It's an Angel rat, it has weak explosive resist. The other 2 has 26% and 27%, what about them?
These are speeds. Or do you wait until they settle into 3km orbit to hit them? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote: On a ship that is already bonused for explosion radius I feel target painters are NOT worth the hassle just so you can make fury cruises hit for insignificantly more damage than regular cruise missiles even without a painter.
Interesting I like to use one and there are some on this forum that swear by two. Choices are good.
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Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'd rather use my brain and deploy 3 sentries and use those 2 mids for omnidirectional links instead of wasting my time with 45km target painters in a ship that can easily hit to 100km+
play to the advantages to get the most of something. Going against the grain isn't "cool" it just makes you look dumb when someone else is doing it correctly and doing it better. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The 20% is only to Explosive. It's an Angel rat, it has weak explosive resist. The other 2 has 26% and 27%, what about them? These are speeds. Or do you wait until they settle into 3km orbit to hit them? Depend on the situation. With Sansha Forlorn Hubs I generally concentrate on the Battleships and Battle Cruises first... by that time the little guys are close.
Angel Liquidator Signature radius: 120 m Orbit velocity: 225 m/s Shield: 1700 27% Armor: 1200 27% Hull: 1300
5272 Effective (?)
I am looking at a Navy Raven volley strength of 8080 with Fury or 5776 with Precision.
Using a Target Painter... I am unsure but think the Precision would be one shot... the Fury not sure. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I Going against the grain isn't "cool" it just makes you look dumb when someone else is doing it correctly and doing it better. Well target painter on Navy Raven and Scorpions have been used by many for a long while.
To each his own. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:The 20% is only to Explosive. It's an Angel rat, it has weak explosive resist. The other 2 has 26% and 27%, what about them? These are speeds. Or do you wait until they settle into 3km orbit to hit them? Depend on the situation. With Sansha Forlorn Hubs I generally concentrate on the Battleships and Battle Cruises first... by that time the little guys are close. Angel Liquidator Signature radius: 120 m Orbit velocity: 225 m/s Shield: 1700 27% Armor: 1200 27% Hull: 1300 5272 Effective (?) I am looking at a Navy Raven volley strength of 8080 with Fury or 5776 with Precision. Using a Target Painter... I am unsure but think the Precision would be one shot... the Fury not sure.
You won't, I'm sure.
From exp radius alone, it won't work. Then there's the exp velocity. That rat has an orbit of 17km, which doesn't mean it runs at orbit speed if it's within 17km. It will run at the normal speed of 450 m/s if it's anywhere but at 17km mark, until it reaches 17km.
This also applies to, say, a Guristas rat with orbit of 40km. If it spawns below 40km, it will pull away at normal speed until it reaches 40km. If you're on the move yourself, the rat will never settle down.
"Orbit Velocity" is a paper stat. When you hit any rat larger than frig, chances are, it will be moving at normal speed, not orbit velocity. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:... it will pull away at normal speed until it reaches 40km. If you're on the move yourself, the rat will never settle down.
"Orbit Velocity" is a paper stat. When you hit any rat larger than frig, chances are, it will be moving at normal speed, not orbit velocity. I don't see a normal speed. Are you saying this Cruiser will be traveling at its max speed? Missile select becomes moot at that speed.
Angel Marauder Orbit velocity: 225 m/s Max. Velocity: 1800 m/s |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:I Going against the grain isn't "cool" it just makes you look dumb when someone else is doing it correctly and doing it better. Well target painter on Navy Raven and Scorpions have been used by many for a long while. To each his own.
Yeah and I don't understand it
You're using something that's chance based after 45km, that doesn't apply on everything you shoot, that doesn't even improve your damage in a lot of cases instead of adding a flat 130+ dps to your ship that can apply it to 80km out.
Can you say your target painters are giving you 130 dps all the time? I highly doubt it.
To give a practical example: with TWO target painters on that 120m sig radius cruiser your fury missiles are doing 483 DPS, compared to faction missiles which are doing 744 DPS (which is full damage).
One target painter using faction ammo increases DPS from 446 to 591 or a 145 DPS increase on that ONE ship you're painting. In the meantime my bouncers are doing 150 dps to whatever I have them target and they have a cycle time of 4 seconds and much faster lock time than I do so if I set them on aggressive they provide a whole lot more effective DPS than me painting stuff. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote: Yeah and I don't understand it.
That is cool.
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Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
461
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Posted - 2013.07.08 19:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote: Yeah and I don't understand it.
That is cool.
why do something worse when there's the option to do it better =S? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:sabre906 wrote:... it will pull away at normal speed until it reaches 40km. If you're on the move yourself, the rat will never settle down.
"Orbit Velocity" is a paper stat. When you hit any rat larger than frig, chances are, it will be moving at normal speed, not orbit velocity. I don't see a normal speed. Are you saying this Cruiser will be traveling at its max speed? Missile select becomes moot at that speed. Angel Marauder Orbit velocity: 225 m/s Max. Velocity: 1800 m/s
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=16896
It's 450 m/s. You should look in mission rats, not mwding belt rats. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
To give a practical example: with TWO target painters on that 120m sig radius cruiser....
Cruisers are interesting the bigger ones can be hit better with Fury while the smaller one less so. Destroyers are easy because even those they are smaller and faster than cruisers in most cases they are to weak to with stand one volley of Fury.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
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Posted - 2013.07.08 19:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:
To give a practical example: with TWO target painters on that 120m sig radius cruiser....
Cruisers are interesting the bigger ones can be hit better with Fury while the smaller one less so. Destroyers are easy because even those they are smaller and faster than cruisers in most cases they are to weak to with stand one volley of Fury.
By "bigger ones" I can only assume you're referring to BC rats instead of cruisers... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Your contention is they almost always travel at max speed? Not just when the approach?
Orbit Velocity: 225.0 m/s Orbit Range: 17,625 m Max. Velocity: 450 m/s |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:
By "bigger ones" I can only assume you're referring to BC rats instead of cruisers...
Centurion is big and fat for a Cruiser. Paint it and the signature radius get large.
Arch Angel Centurion Signature radius: 150 m Orbit Velocity: 200.0 m/s Orbit Range: 21,094 m Max. Velocity: 400 m/s |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
why do something worse when there's the option to do it better =S?
You believe your way is better... good. Enjoy. If you don't like painters you don't have to use them... Eve is great. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
Crissolo wrote:Hello guys, i'm training for T2 cruise missile launcher but i don't know if is better to use faction cruise missile or t2 cruise missile on a raven with rigor rigs.... Let me know Thanks Bye Hey Crissolo. The best option is to train up your skills and experiment. See what works best for you... and have fun.
Sorry if I dis-railed your thread. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Your contention is they almost always travel at max speed? Not just when the approach? What I see in belt rats is the come in at max speed and the go to orbit speed... whether they are in orbit or not. I am not sure, but in anomalies, Sansha Battleships, Battle Cruisers and Cruisers can't keep up with my Raven (afterburner). Even if they are 70-80 away. In L4s spider Drones move very rapidly until they are close then slow down dramatically. It seems to me that Max Velocity is some type of approach speed that is turned of after... something... and then not turned back on. I could be wrong though. Orbit Velocity: 225.0 m/s Orbit Range: 17,625 m Max. Velocity: 450 m/s
Your 1800 m/s is mwd speed, which belt rats pulse, with corresponding mwd sig bloom. Most mission rats apart from some frigs don't mwd, and don't have the sig bloom. Orbit speed is in orbit, speed is while establishing orbit regardless of direction. I don't know what's there to not understand. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
163
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Posted - 2013.07.08 20:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
sabre906 wrote: [ I don't know what's there to not understand.
No problem... lets give the OP back his thread.
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