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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
422
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:31:00 -
[151] - Quote
Quote: Do I need null and low sec to play EVE online?
Yes. They are the driving force behind almost all of the game's economy. And the economy is the driving force behind almost everything the highsec focused players do.
Quote:Because even if null and low sec were removed and no longer existed - guess what I can still play
World of Warcraft? Because EVE would be shut down within two weeks.
Quote:So tell me how null and low sec affect my game. Please, I am listening.
You're not listening. You are pretending to, in an attempt to seem the more reasonable party, but when faced with direct questions or challenges to your "evidence" (which, btw, is thus far nonexistent), you do your best to handwave away anything not fluffing your own twisted opinion.
It's intellectual dishonesty on a level that is incredible even for these forums. With this much brain power diverted toward solipsism, you must struggle to breathe. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:43:00 -
[152] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote: Do I need null and low sec to play EVE online? Yes. They are the driving force behind almost all of the game's economy. And the economy is the driving force behind almost everything the highsec focused players do. Quote:Because even if null and low sec were removed and no longer existed - guess what I can still play World of Warcraft? Because EVE would be shut down within two weeks. Quote:So tell me how null and low sec affect my game. Please, I am listening.
You're not listening. You are pretending to, in an attempt to seem the more reasonable party, but when faced with direct questions or challenges to your "evidence" (which, btw, is thus far nonexistent), you do your best to handwave away anything not fluffing your own twisted opinion. It's intellectual dishonesty on a level that is incredible even for these forums. With this much brain power diverted toward solipsism, you must struggle to breathe.
Maybe you think that EVE would shut down...doubtful...considering there are thousands of players that never see null sec or low sec and have no intention of ever going there - ever. LOL!
No name me one thing from null sec or low sec that I need to play EVE online. Name me just one thing. Then I'll concede your argument. Until then...I play EVE and nothing that happens in null or low will ever affect my game in EVE - ever. Not once...it has zero impact on my game play. None. Period. End of story. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:45:00 -
[153] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:[No name me one thing from null sec or low sec that I need to play EVE online. How about you address the multiple things that have already been named before asking for more?
Quote:I play EVE and nothing that happens in null or low will ever affect my game in EVE - ever. Everything that has happened in low and null has already affected your game, and will continue to do so. Every time. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
422
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:46:00 -
[154] - Quote
Quote:No name me one thing from null sec or low sec that I need to play EVE online. Name me just one thing. Then I'll concede your argument. Until then...I play EVE and nothing that happens in null or low will ever affect my game in EVE - ever. Not once...it has zero impact on my game play. None. Period. End of story.
Market demand.
The majority of good produced in highsec, are one way or another headed to lower security areas, or are being sold by the lowsec and nullsec players' alts.
So, I ask you, what precisely do you do in EVE? There really isn't much that you can do that isn't effected by nullsec or lowsec. Maybe distribution missions.
So, the burden of proof is on you. How is it that your activities are not effected?
[Edit: The other thing is, you seem to think this is within your control. It's not. If they wished to, even a small-medium nullsec bloc can lock down an entire system for days at a time with little difficulty. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Frying Doom
2513
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:No name me one thing from null sec or low sec that I need to play EVE online. Name me just one thing. Then I'll concede your argument. Until then...I play EVE and nothing that happens in null or low will ever affect my game in EVE - ever. Not once...it has zero impact on my game play. None. Period. End of story. Market demand. The majority of good produced in highsec, are one way or another headed to lower security areas, or are being sold by the lowsec and nullsec players' alts. So, I ask you, what precisely do you do in EVE? There really isn't much that you can do that isn't effected by nullsec or lowsec. Maybe distribution missions. So, the burden of proof is on you. How is it that your activities are not effected? No even distribution missions are affected, as soon as you spend the isk you get or buy an item with LP in order to sell it, you are running into a market controlled by supply and demand.
The only way to not be effected by Null/Lo-sec is to run missions and never spend a dime. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:49:00 -
[156] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:No name me one thing from null sec or low sec that I need to play EVE online. Name me just one thing. Then I'll concede your argument. Until then...I play EVE and nothing that happens in null or low will ever affect my game in EVE - ever. Not once...it has zero impact on my game play. None. Period. End of story. Market demand. The majority of good produced in highsec, are one way or another headed to lower security areas, or are being sold by the lowsec and nullsec players' alts. So, I ask you, what precisely do you do in EVE? There really isn't much that you can do that isn't effected by nullsec or lowsec. Maybe distribution missions. So, the burden of proof is on you. How is it that your activities are not effected?
Sorry doesn't affect me...the market can go all nutsy...don't need it. I can get everything I need from running missions. ISK...loot...ammo...fittings...the rest can come from LP stores or mission rewards and crafting. So tell me how the market affects my my missioning. Missions are created by the game - not null of low sec. The market can fry for all I care. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
422
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
Quote:Sorry doesn't effect me...the market can go all nutsy...don't need it. I can get everything I need from running missions. ISK...loot...ammo...fittings...the rest can come from LP stores or mission rewards. So tell me how the market affects my my missioning. Missions are created by the game - not null of low sec. The market can fry for all I care.
So... you really think you can live off ammo drops from NPCs?
And what are you going to do with the ISK you get from running missions? Nothing but PLEX your account, hmm?
Also, I would still say you can be effected by nullsec. They can roll into a mission hub and lock it down, interdict the crap out of it, and you cannot mission there anymore. Yes, you could move, but you still would have been effected. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
859
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:53:00 -
[158] - Quote
I love mad themeparker tears. The Tears Must Flow |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:55:00 -
[159] - Quote
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:The game is about... this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256142&find=unreadGreat wars, 1000's of players fighting, Victory/Defeats & Tears, Alliances, Coalitions, Sovereignty, Trust, Backstabbing, Wealth and Power. As a Hisec miner chewing spacerocks in your mining frigate while you play WoT and LoL in another window... you're INSIGNIFICANT, you're just an individual with no cause... nobody CARES, CCP doesn't CARE, just shut up and keep mining... or unsubscribe and play something else.
Spoken by a forum alt in a High Sec NPC starter corporation.
that said, I tend to agree with you. |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:58:00 -
[160] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:Sorry doesn't effect me...the market can go all nutsy...don't need it. I can get everything I need from running missions. ISK...loot...ammo...fittings...the rest can come from LP stores or mission rewards. So tell me how the market affects my my missioning. Missions are created by the game - not null of low sec. The market can fry for all I care. So... you really think you can live off ammo drops from NPCs? And what are you going to do with the ISK you get from running missions? Nothing but PLEX your account, hmm? Also, I would still say you can be effected by nullsec. They can roll into a mission hub and lock it down, interdict the crap out of it, and you cannot mission there anymore. Yes, you could move, but you still would have been effected.
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing as if nothing happened. LOL!
And you know what is the best thing about it - it really pisses you guys off that null and low sec aren't really needed to play EVE at all. :)
Still waiting for someone to name me one requirement from null and low sec that is a must have to play EVE - just one item. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
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Vrenth
Black-Talon
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:59:00 -
[161] - Quote
Broe wrote:
As isk can buy PLEX and PLEX have a $ value it is nothing but a nasty form of shakedown or moneyracket or blackmail etc.
Does this not pose a problem?
You are assuming that once you turn your money into a PLEX for 19.99, it is still worth money. It is not. You cannot ever turn that PLEX (or the isk) back into money. It has no real monetary value any longer, you have payed CCP for a service and expended it instantly.
To explain it with a scientific analogy:
Lets say you take that same 20$ bill and burn it: This is a chemical change, there is no way to turn it back into money.
Turning it into a PLEX has the same effect on you. CCP gets the money, you can never get it back.
There it is folks, giving money to CCP is equivalent to setting fire to your money. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
422
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:02:00 -
[162] - Quote
Quote:There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing is if nothing happened. LOL!
For about two weeks. The game would be shut down after that.
Quote:And you know what is the best thing about it - it really pisses you guys off that null and low sec aren't really needed to play EVE at all. :)
No, I find mild amusement in the staggering level of the self inflicted ignorance you are perpetrating. Believing that you can somehow turn this into a single player game, and tunnel vision on without paying heed to the ever shifting world around you, is sheer lunacy.
Quote:Still waiting for someone to name me one requirement from null and low sec that is a must have to play EVE - just one item.
You've been given numerous examples, and you have discounted them offhandedly. You will never be given an example you do not reject, because that is the game you are playing. It's pretty transparent. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:05:00 -
[163] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Sorry doesn't affect me. Yes it does, because it's what gives everything you do value and meaning, and it's where all your stuff either comes from or ends up.
Quote:I can get everything I need from running missions. Not in the amounts you need and not without competing with other players, at which point, guess what? You're being affected by what everyone else does GÇö including those in low and null.
Quote:There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. GǪaside from the many things listed and which you have never been able to address, much less dispute or disprove. Meanwhile, everything you've mentioned so far is affected by low and null through the means of economy, tools, and competition. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:06:00 -
[164] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing is if nothing happened. LOL!
For about two weeks. The game would be shut down after that. Quote:And you know what is the best thing about it - it really pisses you guys off that null and low sec aren't really needed to play EVE at all. :)
No, I find mild amusement in the staggering level of the self inflicted ignorance you are perpetrating. Believing that you can somehow turn this into a single player game, and tunnel vision on without paying heed to the ever shifting world around you, is sheer lunacy. Quote:Still waiting for someone to name me one requirement from null and low sec that is a must have to play EVE - just one item. You've been given numerous examples, and you have discounted them offhandedly. You will never be given an example you do not reject, because that is the game you are playing. It's pretty transparent.
Game would not be shut down...you are delusional.
Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :) Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
423
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:07:00 -
[165] - Quote
Hey, can we get some lowsec guys to track this Khira person down and "effect" them from lowsec, preferably in the middle of a mission?
Pretty sure they'd have to concede the point after that.
Quote:Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :)
So, what you did was move the goalposts after your "I can't be effected by nullsec" statements were broken. So, to make sure you didn't lose the argument, you changed it to "I don't need any items from nullsec".
Once again, you are very transparent. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:11:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Sorry doesn't affect me. Yes it does, because it's what gives everything you do value and meaning, and it's where all your stuff either comes from or ends up. I put the value on the game. I determine what is fun and has value. Not you. Quote:I can get everything I need from running missions. Not in the amounts you need and not without competing with other players, at which point, guess what? You're being affected by what everyone else does GÇö including those in low and null.
Bullshit - the game generates missions...not players, not null or low sec. The game can generate hundreds of them...and guess what I am not competing for any of them - at all. None.
Quote:There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. GǪaside from the many things listed and which you have never been able to address, much less dispute or disprove. Meanwhile, everything you've mentioned so far is affected by low and null through the means of economy, tools, and competition.
Sorry...name me one item. Last chance. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
423
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:13:00 -
[167] - Quote
I do hope that you can somehow self-justify all of this.
Because the rest of us? We think you're pathetic. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:13:00 -
[168] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hey, can we get some lowsec guys to track this Khira person down and "effect" them from lowsec, preferably in the middle of a mission? Pretty sure they'd have to concede the point after that. Quote:Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :) So, what you did was move the goalposts after your "I can't be effected by nullsec" statements were broken. So, to make sure you didn't lose the argument, you changed it to "I don't need any items from nullsec". Once again, you are very transparent.
I didn't move anything...still waiting on what null sec does to my game that affects me in game. Because I need nothing from null or low sec to play EVE - at all. Really pisses you guys off that it is true - huh? LOL!
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1200
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:13:00 -
[169] - Quote
khira i don't know if you're trying to save face or something here but i feel embarassed on your behalf just reading it |
Khira Kitamatsu
681
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:14:00 -
[170] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I do hope that you can somehow self-justify all of this.
Because the rest of us? We think you're pathetic.
::shrugs:: I don't think much of you either since you still haven't named anything from null sec and low sec that affects me playing EVE. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:14:00 -
[171] - Quote
[quote=Khira Kitamatsu]Game would not be shut down.]/quote]Of course it would, for the reasons explained to you that you have failed to address, dispute or disprove.
Quote:Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec. No, you're still avoiding the many things that have been named, all of which you have failed to address, dispute or disprove.
Quote:You know I am right The only right you are is not in the head. You have said nothing that is in any way related to EVE; you have offered nothing to support your argument; you have provided no explanation for why you think you are disconnected from the game; you have utterly failed at every step to address, dispute, or disprove even a single fact given to you.
You know we are right and you know you can't answer our questions because they would prove you so wrong you'd have to be outlawed to prevent it accidentally infecting innocent people.
Quote:I put the value on the game. Incorrect. The market does. The one generated by the common pool of players, including the ones from low and null.
Then prove it. Tell us what it is you do and how you believe it to be completely disconnected from the market, from the economy, from production, and from destruction. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:19:00 -
[172] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:I didn't move anything. GǪapart from the goal posts. Once it was made abundantly clear that you could be affected, you tried to move it to GǣimpactedGǥ. Once impact was shown, you tried to move it to Gǣnot needingGǥ. Once need was shown, you tried to move it to Gǣgame can survive withoutGǥ. Once survival was shown to be at risk, you're now stuck at Gǣumad?Gǥ.
Quote:still waiting on what null sec does to my game that affects me in game. No. GÇ£WaitingGÇ¥ implies that it has yet to happen, when in reality, it happened many pages ago. What you're actually doing is avoiding the many things that have been named, all of which you have failed to address, dispute or disprove. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8404
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:36:00 -
[173] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Sorry...name me one item. Last chance.
All officer mods and high-end deadspace mods? Also, all T2 production requires moon mineral reaction products - you cannot mine moons in highsec nor can you run reactions there. Unless you only fly T1 ships with t1/named/faction/c-type mods, you're always going to use stuff that cannot be made without stuff from lowsec/0.0.
Also, what do you buy with your LP? Nullsec is the main consumer of a large portion of LP store items, because ships are actually lost there. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:47:00 -
[174] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing as if nothing happened. LOL!
You could still sign in, yes. You could still keep playing, yes. We have acknowledged these things.
"As if nothing happened," is a big fat "No," however, because the ISK value of ships and goods on the high sec market is tied inextricably to the wars and destruction that goes on in null and low sec. Without them in the game, the value of these items would absolutely crash overnight so you would not be able to continue playing "as if nothing happened." Ore you mine and rewards from missions would be worth less because the items created from that ore would be worth far less because the demand for those items would go way down because there would be far fewer items being removed from the game.
Shortly, CCP would have to rebalance mission rewards because they would not be in line with the market. And so on and so forth.
This is elementary. It's very simple to understand and absolutely impossible to argue against. You have yet to attempt to do so, which demonstrates an unwillingness or inability (hint: it's both!) to do so. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:36:00 -
[175] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I love mad themeparker tears.
Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills.
Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh? "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:45:00 -
[176] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:"As if nothing happened," is a big fat "No," however, because the ISK value of ships and goods on the high sec market is tied inextricably to the wars and destruction that goes on in null and low sec.
If you mission the ISK made is independent of null and low-sec. The ISK comes from bounties and money saved in not buying items. Be it from mining to salvaging, and it's all independent of null and low-sec. The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money not even tied to activities in null or low-sec.
No trade wars. No moon goo tie ups. No ore tomfoolery. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:47:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:I love mad themeparker tears. Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills. Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh?
how long did it take? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:I love mad themeparker tears. Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills. Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh? how long did it take?
Not as long as the TEST and Goon fight. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:55:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money GǪthat has suddenly become worthless, useless, and pretty much completely devoid of purpose. Oh wait, that rather makes it matter, doesn't it?
Just because the ISK is made GÇ£independently of low/nullGÇ¥ (i.e. in a ship you got from your career agents, armed only with looted equipment and loaded with found ammo) doesn't mean that low and null has no impact on the activity. They had a lot to do with giving the activity value and making it possible to begin withGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money GǪthat has suddenly become worthless, useless, and pretty much completely devoid of purpose. Oh wait, that rather makes it matter, doesn't it?
To you.
I'm not dependent on the market, moon goo or the other stuff. Saw how the game is played (like in EQII), and like in WoW, became self-sufficient. Only bills in the game are for things, again, not tied to any value in null or low-sec.
To you it's about making ISK. To me it's about saving ISK. You got to sell to make the ISK to buy stuff. I just need to save.
Big difference. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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