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warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.07.09 04:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Been a while since I started to actively trade and something came to me as I began sifting through market data.
Has anyone ever looked at the effect of blockades on overall trade?
No, I do not mean Hulkageddon or Burn Jita type acts, since they're isolated in terms of area and time, In essence, I am wondering about the reverse.
I mean an actual Blockade of Null-Sec minerals, moon material, and products to high sec and low sec, while on the flip side a decline of Tritanium, minerals, and ice from high sec to null sec. Has anyone attempted to blockade null-sec to low/high sec entry ways simultaneously in Eve, including the low sec systems within jump range of jump freighters? If not, then has there been any data collected during the prior great wars on trading and pricing on commodities, i.e. when fighting intensifies near HED-GP for instance.
Curious about it, since Eve is supposed to be a self sustaining MMO, wouldn't the loss of key materials from null sec and ice from high sec result in a dramatic swing in commodity values for the forward thinker? (Unless you have tens of thousands of alts running all day long with long trains of Covert Ops haulers :P ) |
Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
165
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Posted - 2013.07.09 04:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
With the advent of Jump Freighters, titan bridges, and BlOps bridges it is impossible to blockade any section of nullsec. Rather unfortunate. Blockades would be fun. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
169
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Posted - 2013.07.09 05:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:Has anyone attempted to blockade null-sec to low/high sec entry ways simultaneously in Eve, including the low sec systems within jump range of jump freighters?
Figure out how many such systems there are and post back. I wish such a thing was possible... Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
13
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Posted - 2013.07.09 06:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
It could have been more possible long ago. As there once was only a handful of entrances to 0.0. For example at one point the only way to enter the norths 0.0 through empire was through p3en- in vale, ec- and 93pi- in pure blind. With pf- in syndicate, y9g- in syndicate, d4ku- in fountain, a2- in querious, hed- in catch, g-5 in providence, and b-v in great wildlands the only other ways to enter 0.0(I may be missing 1 or 2 places). Considering this was before freighters, jfs, bridges, supers, and ofc not to forget warp to 0, keeping these 10 entry points to 0.0 open was vital to 0.0 survival, and insanely important during times of war. Eves first major war, the Great Northern War involving BoB vrs Phoenix Alliance and friends lasted so long and became so big in large part because while BoB took over the ec- and 93pi- entries, PAs allies in Vale kept open the p3en- entry for their logistics. These entry points were nearly always camped 23/7, and oh man was it fun. Megacyte could have been largely blockaded at the time as arkonor is only found in the south. But considering it sold for 15-17k/unit when I first started playing, why bother?
BoB also years later tried to blockade the production of supercaps, and for a while it did work. A few wars and tactical targeting of csaas happened(hi Big Blue) but eventually it became unfeasible to stop the acquisition of a ship.
You want to look at actual market blockades though, I direct you to the introduction of t2 and the people who owned the bpos. People ***** about t2 bpos being unfair now, imagine paying 150mil for a cov ops cloak during a time when owning a battleship was a big milestone.
ugh, im so dated |
arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
36
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Posted - 2013.07.09 06:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source? |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
169
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source?
How? Jump freighter insta-undocks from Jita and jumps to cyno. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
36
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zappity wrote:arabella blood wrote:You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source? How? Jump freighter insta-undocks from Jita and jumps to cyno.
We are talking about blockading resources from null to empire? So the source is null. I meant some sort of station camp in null...but its Purly theoretical. |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
276
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Posted - 2013.07.09 11:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Zappity wrote:arabella blood wrote:You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source? How? Jump freighter insta-undocks from Jita and jumps to cyno. We are talking about blockading resources from null to empire? So the source is null. I meant some sort of station camp in null...but its Purly theoretical. A voluntary blockade is what you are suggesting, I suppose, as current logistics make a true blockade pretty difficult now.
the goons tried to make an OTEC (and this), and burn jita is another example of what is currently possible.
The effects of burn jita have been more difficult to analyze, but a voluntary blockade (as long as all members conform) has lots of potential. I'd love to be part of a coalition that controls >90% of something, and then squeeze the market like crazy. Any colour you like. |
arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
37
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Posted - 2013.07.09 11:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Im talking about a "hell camp" on vfk during otec...OP is asking if it have been done by force before, and what the result was, if i understood currectly.
At the end, the question is similar to: will somalli pirates will manage to stop the shipping of goods around the world? :)
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
204
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Posted - 2013.07.09 12:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
It is laughably easy to blockade individual 0.0 stations, but individual 0.0 stations aren't really significant in the grand scheme of things because very little actually goes on in them. |
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arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
37
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Posted - 2013.07.09 13:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
afk cloakers ruin my income thread in disguise? |
warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.07.09 22:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
@arabella Well, pirates don't blockade, they plunder :p
@aliventi, I thought the jump bridges and cynos had been nerfed a few patches ago, so their range can't go as far as it used to be. Some pocket low secs and null near high have to be used to cyno. So I thought some bottlenecks could exist.
So I guess the answer is no, nor did anyone bothered to record the market reactions during those wars in the past. I was curious about price and supply shocks with blockades
A blockade does not need to be total or complete to change market prices. If jump freighter pilots must use more fuel or travel around blockaded routes, time becomes a cost variable. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Paragon Blitz
515
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Posted - 2013.07.10 00:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Samroski wrote:arabella blood wrote:Zappity wrote:arabella blood wrote:You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source? How? Jump freighter insta-undocks from Jita and jumps to cyno. We are talking about blockading resources from null to empire? So the source is null. I meant some sort of station camp in null...but its Purly theoretical. A voluntary blockade is what you are suggesting, I suppose, as current logistics make a true blockade pretty difficult now. the goons tried to make an OTEC (and this), and burn jita is another example of what is currently possible. The effects of burn jita have been more difficult to analyze, but a voluntary blockade (as long as all members conform) has lots of potential. I'd love to be part of a coalition that controls >90% of something, and then squeeze the market like crazy.
Once you get to having a serious impact, the first person to break ranks from the cartel will make enormous profits. This dynamic makes the whole setup unstable.
An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
37
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Posted - 2013.07.10 06:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:
A blockade does not need to be total or complete to change market prices. If jump freighter pilots must use more fuel or travel around blockaded routes, time becomes a cost variable.
Ice, ice, baby....
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Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
172
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 07:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
With 11.25 light years of jump range there are far too many systems to blockade a JF. They can pick any of hundreds of different systems that go from low to highsec to jump to. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Rhea,5/Jita Even Jita has 221 systems you can jump to.
If JFs and titan bridges didn't exist then you could blockade. There are only a finite number of ways to get in a system by using only gates and maybe a jump bridge. So you go from several hundred possibilities to less than 10. You can do that. There are potentially thousands of moons and other resources like belts and anioms to mine in that would be impossible to blockade them all. This leave stations. But as Bad Bobby said next to nothing goes on in a station. If you blockade one of them they move to any of the dozen with jump range. The man power for a 24 hour a day station blockade that would be challenging to break would be out of the ability of all but the largest alliances. There have been many notable station hell camps where access to most everything inside was lost when the station was flipped. PNQY and R3P0 come to mind.
It is a cool idea. The effects of blockading could potentially be devastating. But CCP would have to claw JFs and titan bridges away from too many people. It is just too well entrenched in the way SOV works. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
arabella blood
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 07:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:With 11.25 light years of jump range there are far too many systems to blockade a JF. They can pick any of hundreds of different systems that go from low to highsec to jump to. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Rhea,5/Jita Even Jita has 221 systems you can jump to. If JFs and titan bridges didn't exist then you could blockade. There are only a finite number of ways to get in a system by using only gates and maybe a jump bridge. So you go from several hundred possibilities to less than 10. You can do that. There are potentially thousands of moons and other resources like belts and anioms to mine in that would be impossible to blockade them all. This leave stations. But as Bad Bobby said next to nothing goes on in a station. If you blockade one of them they move to any of the dozen with jump range. The man power for a 24 hour a day station blockade that would be challenging to break would be out of the ability of all but the largest alliances. There have been many notable station hell camps where access to most everything inside was lost when the station was flipped. PNQY and R3P0 come to mind. It is a cool idea. The effects of blockading could potentially be devastating. But CCP would have to claw JFs and titan bridges away from too many people. It is just too well entrenched in the way SOV works.
Afk cloak in all the systems!! \o/ |
Q 5
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Samroski wrote:arabella blood wrote:Zappity wrote:arabella blood wrote:You dont have to blockade the destination, you can (theoreticly) blockade the source? How? Jump freighter insta-undocks from Jita and jumps to cyno. We are talking about blockading resources from null to empire? So the source is null. I meant some sort of station camp in null...but its Purly theoretical. A voluntary blockade is what you are suggesting, I suppose, as current logistics make a true blockade pretty difficult now. the goons tried to make an OTEC (and this), and burn jita is another example of what is currently possible. The effects of burn jita have been more difficult to analyze, but a voluntary blockade (as long as all members conform) has lots of potential. I'd love to be part of a coalition that controls >90% of something, and then squeeze the market like crazy.
This mostly won't work for more then 1 of many game mechanics built in so that doesn't happen. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
658
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 22:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
The only man made blockade tactic im aware of is, choosing an item and reeking havoc till competition dispersers. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 23:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm pretty glad about the jump freighters thing ... we have enough gate camping in the game as it is . Without the ability to cyno jump the 24/7 gate would make the 20 to 45 minute gate camps people kill starved resort to look like exciting play.
Strategically sort of real and we have some dynamics of shooting inanimate structures that are only a little better but hopefully they iterate a little more regularly on which poison we need to drink and make the drudgery aspects a bit lighter when they stumble on one that will work (and that "stumbling" is not an insult.. that's the way of many innovation.. throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks)
BUT
... harassing trader routes... specifically what you were mentioning you didn't want to consider,
those are effectively partial blocades. Anything that interupts supply lines through interuption is in the same general category.. just a matter of scale and semantics.
The German u-boats in WWII did have a significant effect in terms of cost, wastage and thus supply to the allied milatary in Great Britain.
Ganking activity in a given system , if significant enough not to be de-minimus (say even 5% of freight moved destroyed) would begin to influence the emergence of other hubs or the disbursement of materials traded other ways than the markets (miners finding industrialists who don't mine enough to develop longer term supply relations at agreed weekly prices and volumes etc)
I don't think that would effect freighter sales much ....
...but it could be a good and growing business niche for a person fancying themselves as a broker. |
Felicity Love
Interstellar Booty Hunters
747
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 15:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Blockades require manpower.
Manpower require dedication.
Dedication requires an attention span and ability to focus ... it breaks down after that into epidemics of "can't be arsed" and "I'm bored...."
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
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