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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
296
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Posted - 2013.07.09 15:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the subject says, what is your opinion on Jaguar and Wolf these days. What fittings you found most useful for PVP? Would you consider them over or underpowered when compared to the other assault frigates?
Prior the T1 cruiser buff I found the Dual-Prop-Jaguar very useful in fighting T1 cruisers, but since now most of the T1 cruisers can easily fit dual webs this job turned into a suicide mission. |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
115
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Posted - 2013.07.09 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meditril wrote:As the subject says, what is your opinion on Jaguar and Wolf these days. What fittings you found most useful for PVP? Would you consider them over or underpowered when compared to the other assault frigates?
Prior the T1 cruiser buff I found the Dual-Prop-Jaguar very useful in fighting T1 cruisers, but since now most of the T1 cruisers can easily fit dual webs this job turned into a suicide mission. How heavily is the TE nerv hitting the Arty-Wolf?
So AF's are always going to be bad when compared to the T1 cruisers. T1 cruisers received such a huge buff, that frankly they are far and away the best ships in the game currently when you look at cost / effectiveness.
But for AF's:
Jag has always been MEH in my book. I don't really find it that good or useful.
On the other hand, the arty wolf is one of the best solo PvP frigs in existence currently. While the TE nurf does effect falloff boats, I feel that the wolf is still very effective when fit and flown properly. It is hands down one of the Top 5 Frigs ATM |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1093
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Jag is ****. It has been **** for ages
Wolf is alright. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.09 23:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chessur wrote:[quote=Meditril] On the other hand, the arty wolf is one of the best solo PvP frigs in existence currently. While the TE nurf does effect falloff boats, I feel that the wolf is still very effective when fit and flown properly. It is hands down one of the Top 5 Frigs ATM
Share a preferred fit? |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1257
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 23:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Minmatar has a total of three ships with an optimal range bonus:
Thrasher Jaguar Muninn
I can make an argument about Destroyers being special snowflakes and balancing with regards to the Thrasher. The other two ships simply struggle. It's probably time to do away with the optimal bonus for Minmatar. Change the Jag's optimal bonus to a falloff bonus. Damage projection is it's Achilles Heel. Give it more Armour so it has a multitude of fitting options. My two cents. |
Chessur
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
115
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shinjo Bajahnhosuu wrote:Chessur wrote:[quote=Meditril] On the other hand, the arty wolf is one of the best solo PvP frigs in existence currently. While the TE nurf does effect falloff boats, I feel that the wolf is still very effective when fit and flown properly. It is hands down one of the Top 5 Frigs ATM Share a preferred fit?
[Wolf, artywolf] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Co-Processor II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Warp Disruptor II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
[Wolf, artywolf easier fitting] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Co-Processor II Gyrostabilizer II Fourier Transform Tracking Program Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Warp Disruptor II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
[Wolf, artywolf meta point] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Fourier Transform Tracking Program Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Faint Warp Disruptor I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Just some pretty standard fits really
From Crendraven |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
275
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Posted - 2013.07.10 03:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Jag is probably the weakest Assault Frigate when considered as an Assault Frigate, but it has some practical application as a durable chase tackler. But AFs are basically expensive toys right now anyway.
I don't think much of the Wolf, either, but I also almost never fly it.
Quote:Change the Jag's optimal bonus to a falloff bonus. What a boring solution. It'd mean the two Minmatar AFs have an identical set of bonuses and the same weapon system. Make the Jag a missile boat. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
297
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Both are "meh". |
Roweship
RNI Inovation
3
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Posted - 2013.07.10 19:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Welcome to the age of Mehmatar may it last a thousand years |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
496
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Posted - 2013.07.10 21:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
I for one am glad that minmatar is no longer considered 'winmatar' however I feel that minmata ship feel even more 'minmatar' than ever before and I've been flying them more since the rebalance than ever.
They are no longer 'better' than most but they are still good at what they do. They are skirmishers at heart and still have that ability if you know how to do it.
As for the Jag I put that firmly in the same place that the rifter now shares - In the hands of a skilled pilot it will surprise people how effective it can be but is generally assumed as crap since the other AF got their buffs. It is still the fastest AF out there and can be faster than most of the T1 'combat' frigs (from the fits I have and have encountered)
Now the wolf I have always liked but I know a lot of people who automatically assume any ship with just 2 mids is bad. It is hard hiting with either AC's or Arty and can be a tough nut to crack when fitted to brawl.
In short I like them both, more so now that minmatar are seemingly getting the short end of the rebalances. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Derek Wiildstar
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.07.11 00:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
[quote=Milton Middleson Make the Jag a missile boat.[/quote]
That would rock.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1099
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 03:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jag should be missiles and active shield tanking obviously. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Liam Inkuras
Justified Chaos
336
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 03:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Jag should be missiles and active shield tanking obviously. Gimme 'dat T2 Breacher baby I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1259
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 04:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
*cough cough* Hawk! *cough cough* |
Maru Sha
The Department of Justice
4
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Posted - 2013.07.11 08:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Jaguar as a missile boat? Hell no! Use a breacher if you have to have a missile boat.
I strongly agree with this guy here ... the Jaguar is all about versatility. I have roughly between 20 to 30 different fittings for it (solo, no gang boost, no special implants, no drugs). I think everybody with a little bit of creativity should be able to find his/her own nice fitting. I always found the Jaguar so much fun to fly ... I never really botherd with the wolf (which is a pity, I know). |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1102
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 08:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:*cough cough* Hawk! *cough cough*
You're right, silly hawk.. using a minnie bonus.. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. |
Brainbashi
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 20:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
When you look into Wolf-¦s hull bonuses there is a lot of potential for awesome kiting platform. Dual damage boost is awesome on volley ship not to mention tracking and falloff bonus but the poor capacitor criples it. It is hard to run MWD and long point with those numbers. But on the other hand. Small 5 man fleet where you have one Hyena, Keres and 3Wolfs can be really deadly.
Jaguar is ship what I personally haven-¦t yet found too much of a use. It also have potential expesially against Amarr ships but there another hulls what can perform equally well if not even better. |
Major Killz
SniggWaffe
223
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 21:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
ART Wolf is sh!t compared to rail-gun Harpy, Thrasher and Talwar. At least solo. Like I've said in the past; in fleets of 2 or more they can be deadly and end engagements hella quickly which is something you'd want.
The Jaguar is harder to judge because I can use set-ups that can if not win cannot lose against another assault frigate. There's a lot of interesting set-ups like 10mn-dual Asb-dual MSE-Interceptor-ART- dual SAR- Armour plate-JAGUAR.
I find a fleet of jaguars backup by logistics to be hella deadly compared to other such fleets. Obvi Retribution fleets with logi are more deadly. Same could be said about Ishkurs too but dont see much of those fleets.
So! I would say they'er not the best at anything but good at everything.
For skirmishing go: Harpy > Enyo > Wolf
For balls deep go -> Hawk > Vengeance > Ishkur (jag would most likely be at the end of this list, like the last..)
- Killz
Combat Video Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon (June 13, 2013) - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
500
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 21:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jag (like the rifter) is generally considered the weakest of the AF's
This is good....means you get more fights in them! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
302
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill.
Can you share your fitting, please? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
471
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 15:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jag can be a beast.
Came across one the other day that took forever to break.
With the right fit it is an impressive ship imo.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
TijsseN
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 16:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
The jaguar is a fast and versatile heavy tackling frigate since it has four midslots so it can fit a shield extender, full tackle and MWD or AB. The lowslots can be filled up with nanofibers to give it suprising agility and speed. DPS is not its strong point in that configuration, but my fleetmates will take care of that. |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
189
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 17:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. Can you share your fitting, please?
No. Work out your own for the things you want to do with it. But it certainly can engage a Navy Vexor solo.
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Baali Tekitsu
Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
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Posted - 2013.07.14 03:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Meditril wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. Can you share your fitting, please? No. Work out your own for the things you want to do with it. But it certainly can engage a Navy Vexor solo.
I would doubt hat Vexor Navy part, though I have to admit, the dual MASB fit is the only assault frig my Thrasher has to fear in a straight brawl. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1111
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 15:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Meditril wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. Can you share your fitting, please? No. Work out your own for the things you want to do with it. But it certainly can engage a Navy Vexor solo.
Jag is ****
it dies to all the other AF's and gets violated by most the navy frigs too. Hell its quite killable in an Incursus... BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
515
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 20:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Meditril wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. Can you share your fitting, please? No. Work out your own for the things you want to do with it. But it certainly can engage a Navy Vexor solo. Jag is **** it dies to all the other AF's and gets violated by most the navy frigs too. Hell its quite killable in an Incursus...
Incursus can kill a lot of things. But then again so can the merlin, rifter, tristan, punisher, tormentor, executioner, slasher, condor, kessy, atron, breacher.......come one this kind of arguement is pretty crap since the rebalances really.
The main thing about the Jag I find is the DPS is very poor compared to the other AF's. It's tank and speed can surpass most of them so it kinda balances out.
The main issue I find is that the optimal bonus is a pretty poor bonus for it and that it is a jack of all trades, master of none type of ship. In the hands of a competant pilot the Jag can do some amazing stuff. In the hands of a noob who doen't have much of clue it will die horribly. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Plato Forko
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 21:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
The only issue with the Jag is that making good use of all its bonuses means pigeonholing yourself into a role that can be served just as well by an attack frigate for far less ISK and without the need of a cap booster. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1113
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 21:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Meditril wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I like the jag. It works well. And everyone underestimates it. Like, they stay in hope of an easy kill and start panicking once they reckognize that they are the easy kill. Can you share your fitting, please? No. Work out your own for the things you want to do with it. But it certainly can engage a Navy Vexor solo. Jag is **** it dies to all the other AF's and gets violated by most the navy frigs too. Hell its quite killable in an Incursus... Incursus can kill a lot of things. But then again so can the merlin, rifter, tristan, punisher, tormentor, executioner, slasher, condor, kessy, atron, breacher.......come one this kind of arguement is pretty crap since the rebalances really. The main thing about the Jag I find is the DPS is very poor compared to the other AF's. It's tank and speed can surpass most of them so it kinda balances out. The main issue I find is that the optimal bonus is a pretty poor bonus for it and that it is a jack of all trades, master of none type of ship. In the hands of a competant pilot the Jag can do some amazing stuff. In the hands of a noob who doen't have much of clue it will die horribly.
None of the other AF's gets killed by a t1 frig inside of scram range as easily. You can kill the enyo that way but its a really hard fight. Against the others you will just die.
The jag has nothing of value over the other t2 frigs. Its a waste of isk to fly one. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
518
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 22:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
None of the other AF's gets killed by a t1 frig inside of scram range as easily. You can kill the enyo that way but its a really hard fight. Against the others you will just die.
The jag has nothing of value over the other t2 frigs. Its a waste of isk to fly one.
Enyo is generally pretty easy to kill if you scram kite ala rail incursus or scorch tormentor, hell even 200mm auto rifter can do it. Most people flying an enyo only put AM or void in because of 'looks at those deeps man!' I soloed an typical fit enyo a couple of months or so ago in my Tormentor and he didn't even get through my shields! (in a bloody amarr boat! thats bad).
Now I'll concede that if a pilot knows what he's doing and loads up null he should have whelped me bad but this goes back to my previous posts and my general philosophy on pvp in eve. It has more to do with the pilot than the ship as there is ship dieing all the time to ships that SHOULDN'T be able to kill them, but it happens. And no it's not always down to links and shite.
For example I soloed a dramiel in my punisher I know how much you hate them and you know what the real stickler is?
...
I didn't even have any tackle fitted, just an AB & web. He landed on grid thinking of an easy kill and got owned in about 10 secs flat before it even registered that he was losing.
Pilot first - ship second. It is one of the most fun things about eve pvp, the pychology of how players fit/fly their ships.
Now back to the original question. The Jag can field a comparable tank and far greater speed that the other AF. Hell it can go faster than most of the T1 'combat' frigs. But to compensate for this it does mediocre damage. Literally just think of it as a T2 rifter.
The wolf on the other hand has excellent damage and projection with both AC's and arti's and can fit a formidable armour tank. It doesn't have such a speed advantage that the Jag does, especially if it is plated, but it can still motor along. I find the wolf is the minnies attempt to beat the retribution at it's own game.
One glaring weakness of both ships is the crap capacitor.....It's shite! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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