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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 03:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I left for service when i made this guy; got back to the states recently and I'm continuing my path into mining. But after researching alot of the endgame methods for gaining isk
I'm left with a pit in my stomach about these incursions. Players are reporting anywhere from 500-1bil/day in isk gain by fleeting up for these While when I run back to station after 15 times with my retriever, I'm getting a couple mil. (This is hours of time).
My research reports that hulks don't even make 1/8th of incursion piltos.
I'm just hoping someone from CCP can at the very least clarify this so I can stop mining and just train for a battleship like everyone else since I could just refine loot. I just lost my motivation to mine with all this information. I really really want to be a miner and make my own stuff and sell it and everything but..
I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do. |
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 04:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a GAME! Do what you want.
ISK is NOT the endgame. Only beginners think that. If you like mining, why don't you continue? |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 04:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lutz Major wrote:It's a GAME! Do what you want.
ISK is NOT the endgame. Only beginners think that. If you like mining, why don't you continue?
Because it feels like It's pointless. Like no matter how much I try, I'll never be able to afford my losses if I want to go goof around in a cruiser or battleship in lowsec. I want to mine because I want to have control of production; to help a corp make ships. But I'm having trouble seeing it as a viable option with people running incursions making enough to replace ships, buy and control market chunks, and even just refine their loot and do the same thing I'm doing.
I need a reason. I only came to this game because of the advertisement of reality, awesome gameplay, and ECONOMY.
So I'm here posting in several threads about the pisspoor management of the Economy and Mining in general to either A) Get confirmation that the winter expansion is put on hold or produced on time With changes to mining B) See that nothing will ever be done to mining no matter what words they push down throats and conform to Incursions or C) Confirm my cancellation and move on to another game.
ISK is THE endgame. You have isk, you pay for your accounts; make pvp ships; do everything and anything you want because you can afford the loss. |
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 05:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote: ISK is THE endgame. You have isk, you pay for your accounts; make pvp ships; do everything and anything you want because you can afford the loss.
No its not. Fun is.
But if you want ISK, then missioning is neither the way to go. You will have to find another profession like trading or scaming. Have fun creating dozens of spreadsheets, watching the market and trying to foretell future needs. If thats what you want do this.
I did what I did and I had fun with it. At some point it was even fun to stand up in the middle of the night and log in ...
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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 05:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lutz Major wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote: ISK is THE endgame. You have isk, you pay for your accounts; make pvp ships; do everything and anything you want because you can afford the loss.
No its not. Fun is. But if you want ISK, then missioning is neither the way to go. You will have to find another profession like trading or scaming. Have fun creating dozens of spreadsheets, watching the market and trying to foretell future needs. If thats what you want do this. I did what I did and I had fun with it. At some point it was even fun to stand up in the middle of the night and log in ...
So you admit the amount of work involved in making trading, mining, and manufactoring profitable. And yet incursion pilots train a few skills, fit a few mods, grab a friend and just click in space mindlessly while the logistic buddies listen for a que to "heal" someone else.
Obviously it's time for change and you made that point even clearer. Thank you. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 05:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:ISK is THE endgame. You have isk, you pay for your accounts; make pvp ships; do everything and anything you want because you can afford the loss. You are gonna be very disappointed when you find this isn't true.
ISK is not the endgame. I've got lots of it. Many tens of billions in ISK and assets. I'm currently flying around in a cheap T1 cruiser, because I find that fun.
Then there are the days when I just head out to the nearest asteroid belt and mine. Not because I need the ISK, I can earn much more doing other things, but because I often find that fun for a while. I make about 85m / belt.
And other times I do something else.
If anything, the end game is trying to learn how many different ways you can have fun.
* I've earned my wealth from mining, industry, trade, hauling, missions, and wormholes. I've never done an Incursion. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 05:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
isks arn't the end-game. At least... not anymore.
There was a time when earning your first billion isks was something to celebrate. Not anymore.
Now, mining can be more rewarding than what you are doing right now. It has it's how end-game, which is flying a hulk. The best way to make isks out of it is to have either a friend or an alt doing the hauling for you. Your hulk never leaves the belt, it jetsi's it's cargo once it's nearly full, and the hauler retrieve the ore.
It's the most efficient way to mine. Also to train for ore processing and trading skill to max profit. It's kind silly to compare your courrent isks income whith incursion which are the PvE endgame, while you havn't reached to endgame level of a miner at all.
Training for incursion starts by running missions, and Lev1-2 missions are far from lucrative. Level 3 and 4 are interesting, but you can definity do the same income by mining and trading.
They can be a lot of isks to be made by mining, but i would be lying if i said an incursion wasn't the best way to make isks at the moment.
Thing is.... you don't go to an incursion untill you can either fly a logistic cruiser, a T3 cruiser or a faction battleship and Faction modules. Which will take time and money.
Not to mention that Incursion require other players to join in. It's not something you can do solo.
Either way bot mining and incursion are good to make isks, and honestly you will end-up with more isks than you really need in either case, so don't make it your top priority. As said the above, the question you must ask yourself is "Do i want to be an industrial?". Choose the path you think is fun to explore. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two more posts to prove my point and even provide more reasons as to why mining REQUIRES a huge upgrade.
This topic isn't about what is 'end game' because that is a matter of opinion composed, most often, by your goal in the game.
So why is my way of having fun inferior in ALL aspects to combat pilots? Why do combat pilots make more isk then me and I'm the one they have to buy their mods and ships from by well over ten fold?
It's obviously time for a change. You both furthered my point. Thank you. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
hum lol, you will need an even bigger updrade to start doing incursions. We are talking about a few months of skill training here. So no it doesn't prove your point at all.
Now most miners in eve do it because they like to mine. Yes yes it's true i swear. And thank god to that. You won't have ships to buy without those miners out there.
Now if being a combat pilot is what you want in the first place, yes clearly you should stop mining and start doing missions. On that, you have a point. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:hum lol, you will need an even bigger updrade to start doing incursions. We are talking about a few months of skill training here. So no it doesn't prove your point at all.
Now most miners in eve do it because they like to mine. Yes yes it's true i swear. And thank god to that. You won't have ships to buy without those miners out there.
Now if being a combat pilot is what you want in the first place, yes clearly you should stop mining and start doing missions. On that, you have a point.
So because I enjoy mining, I should conform to building your ships for stupid prices? No. EVE should cater to all of it's playerbase. We're being stalked and hunted in ALL security sections of space so saying we can go watch a movie is a lie as well. We have to re-target just like combat pilots. We have to manage our position just like combat pilots do. We have to keep an eye on which asteroids are most profitable just like combat pilots keep an eye on which targets are of higher priority.
You're going nowhere with this 'miners afk' thing. Not everyone has $45 to spend to get 2 hulks and an orca on alt accounts. There are more miners in 1 account then these multi boxers.
We miners need something. Increased minerals from ore? An ACTUAL mining ship with an ACTUAL cargo hold? Why should WE have to have multiple accounts and combat pilots only need their one?
And even then; to fly a freaking hulk with t2 mods is a long process of training just as much as training for t2 shield mods. Why should we be the only ones to suffer? |
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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Faction Navy battleship: 3 lvl 4 skills and then a few points in Battleships. t2 shield mods: level 4 in 2 skills. MAYBE dps upgrade mods: lvl 4 weapon upgrades? MAYBE lvl 5 for 1 or 2? T2 guns are the only thing with a long training time which would be the end-game portion of a battleship.
Have you seen how much it takes to fly a orca which is in fact the only viable 1account mining ship of worth?(AND the price of putting t2 mining drones to make it effecient?)
Try again. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
751
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:I left for service when i made this guy; got back to the states recently and I'm continuing my path into mining. But after researching alot of the endgame methods for gaining isk
I'm left with a pit in my stomach about these incursions. Players are reporting anywhere from 500-1bil/day in isk gain by fleeting up for these While when I run back to station after 15 times with my retriever, I'm getting a couple mil. (This is hours of time).
My research reports that hulks don't even make 1/8th of incursion piltos.
I'm just hoping someone from CCP can at the very least clarify this so I can stop mining and just train for a battleship like everyone else since I could just refine loot. I just lost my motivation to mine with all this information. I really really want to be a miner and make my own stuff and sell it and everything but..
I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do.
Mining is a low attention, low stress, low player skill activity that can be done solo with a cheap ship from an incredibly abundant resource. If you want to "play EVE" while studying for your exams, then mining is a good way to do it.
Incursions require you to pay attention, bring the right ship, work with others, know what you're doing and have limited availability.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
200
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do.
The ones who are shooting things for minerals are not the same as the ones who are making hundreds of millions of ISK an hour on Incursions. The ones you're thinking of are the 60M ISK/hr mission runners who have pimped out ships worth tens of billions of ISK.
If your goal is to wander low sec in a gang engaging in PvP, train for that play style. Running Incursions is a natural extension of that play style. Running missions is a natural extension of that play style. Mining and manufacturing are not natural extensions of the low sec roaming gang play style.
You shouldn't be mining with the intention of making ISK. If your intent is to make ISK, pick the activity that you can do which makes the most ISK. Don't complain that the activity you're doing is not making the most ISK. You obviously picked that activity for other reasons.
Complaining that mining doesn't make enough ISK compared to the cowboys flying sexy ships is equivalent to complaining that a job as a production line employee in China doesn't pay as much as CEO of Apple. The labour is cheap because there are so many people willing to undercut each other to do that job.
If you're really concerned about the time it takes to make the ISK you want, why not buy PLEX to convert to ISK? The exchange rate is quite favourable at this point in time.
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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:I left for service when i made this guy; got back to the states recently and I'm continuing my path into mining. But after researching alot of the endgame methods for gaining isk
I'm left with a pit in my stomach about these incursions. Players are reporting anywhere from 500-1bil/day in isk gain by fleeting up for these While when I run back to station after 15 times with my retriever, I'm getting a couple mil. (This is hours of time).
My research reports that hulks don't even make 1/8th of incursion piltos.
I'm just hoping someone from CCP can at the very least clarify this so I can stop mining and just train for a battleship like everyone else since I could just refine loot. I just lost my motivation to mine with all this information. I really really want to be a miner and make my own stuff and sell it and everything but..
I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do. Mining is a low attention, low stress, low player skill activity that can be done solo with a cheap ship from an incredibly abundant resource. If you want to "play EVE" while studying for your exams, then mining is a good way to do it. Incursions require you to pay attention, bring the right ship, work with others, know what you're doing and have limited availability.
Oddly enough, so does mining if you want to make even 1/10th the profit of incursion fleets. What's your point? You say it's low attention which IS true if you're not worried about losing your meta4'd or t2'd out mining ship to a highsec ganker or watch local in null/lowsec.
Low stress? Are you kidding? Even the kids in a retriever deal with stress because if they "dont pay attention" they normall lose that retriever to a bunch of frigate rats.
Low player skill? what are you even trying to get at here? Trained skillbooks ? Because as a solo miner the only viable miner would be an orca with a crazy fit to have miners and t2 mining drones which is a LONG and rather HIGH skill level. If you're trying to tell me that right click-lockon-moveto is lowskill then you are also referring to PvE combat pilots who do the SAME thing..
They target, they click their modules. Same damn thing. Heck drone boats don't even need to do that. They send out drones and AFK with their repair and hardeners. What skill are you talking about? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
751
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
So I'm here posting in several threads about the pisspoor management of the Economy and Mining in general...
Mining is in the state that it's in largely because of changes to the game loudly demanded by miners. When you have a low-skill, low risk, low investment, low attention activity that harvests an extremely abundant resource to sell in a competitive economy, then how much money do you think you're going to make at it?
If you want to make mining lucrative, then you need to ask CCP to make it difficult, dangerous and for there to be far less asteroids available.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
You seem fairly angry over this...
Mining is not pointless, nor is training for it.
I have a secret mining hideaway with a hulk, blueprints and a stash of ships.
The thing about mining is this:
It has the lowest income of any profession in the game, but on the other hand, its completely dependable and predictable. None of this "will I find a radar site" malarky.
It does not require time investment. If you start running an incursion site, and have to go before its finished, you'll get booted out of fleet and receive bugger all. Mining rewards you per second of activity. If you have to stop half way through a cycle, flick off the lasers and you'll get the ore you are owed. Its minimum attention. You can have a video in a windowed mode (or on a second screen in my case) and just flick back occasionally to check on your hold and possibly shield HP if you haven't permatanked your hulk.
Its also minimum risk in empire space and fairly low investment, especially compared to how much some people pay for bling fit mission ships.
What I'm saying is that it's an amazing backup income stream.
Being wardecced and can't run missions? Run off to your secret mining hideaway.
Lost your incursion runner and have no liquid isk to replace it? Run off to your secret mining hideaway.
Only need 1-2mil more isk for something and don't want to search for hours for a radar site? Run off to your secret mining hideaway.
I've never run high end incursions, and don't really want to. It doesn't interest me that much TBH. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
751
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Malcanis wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:I left for service when i made this guy; got back to the states recently and I'm continuing my path into mining. But after researching alot of the endgame methods for gaining isk
I'm left with a pit in my stomach about these incursions. Players are reporting anywhere from 500-1bil/day in isk gain by fleeting up for these While when I run back to station after 15 times with my retriever, I'm getting a couple mil. (This is hours of time).
My research reports that hulks don't even make 1/8th of incursion piltos.
I'm just hoping someone from CCP can at the very least clarify this so I can stop mining and just train for a battleship like everyone else since I could just refine loot. I just lost my motivation to mine with all this information. I really really want to be a miner and make my own stuff and sell it and everything but..
I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do. Mining is a low attention, low stress, low player skill activity that can be done solo with a cheap ship from an incredibly abundant resource. If you want to "play EVE" while studying for your exams, then mining is a good way to do it. Incursions require you to pay attention, bring the right ship, work with others, know what you're doing and have limited availability. Oddly enough, so does mining if you want to make even 1/10th the profit of incursion fleets. What's your point? You say it's low attention which IS true if you're not worried about losing your meta4'd or t2'd out mining ship to a highsec ganker or watch local in null/lowsec. Low stress? Are you kidding? Even the kids in a retriever deal with stress because if they "dont pay attention" they normall lose that retriever to a bunch of frigate rats. Low player skill? what are you even trying to get at here? Trained skillbooks ? Because as a solo miner the only viable miner would be an orca with a crazy fit to have miners and t2 mining drones which is a LONG and rather HIGH skill level. If you're trying to tell me that right click-lockon-moveto is lowskill then you are also referring to PvE combat pilots who do the SAME thing.. They target, they click their modules. Same damn thing. Heck drone boats don't even need to do that. They send out drones and AFK with their repair and hardeners. What skill are you talking about?
Bear in mind that you're talking to someone who has done mining in 0.0 so, I know how "dangerous" belt rats are.
Have you participated in Incursions?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:I cannot see a reason to pursue it if these combat pilots can both Get the minerals AND make 10times the isk then I do. The ones who are shooting things for minerals are not the same as the ones who are making hundreds of millions of ISK an hour on Incursions. The ones you're thinking of are the 60M ISK/hr mission runners who have pimped out ships worth tens of billions of ISK. If your goal is to wander low sec in a gang engaging in PvP, train for that play style. Running Incursions is a natural extension of that play style. Running missions is a natural extension of that play style. Mining and manufacturing are not natural extensions of the low sec roaming gang play style. You shouldn't be mining with the intention of making ISK. If your intent is to make ISK, pick the activity that you can do which makes the most ISK. Don't complain that the activity you're doing is not making the most ISK. You obviously picked that activity for other reasons. Complaining that mining doesn't make enough ISK compared to the cowboys flying sexy ships is equivalent to complaining that a job as a production line employee in China doesn't pay as much as CEO of Apple. The labour is cheap because there are so many people willing to undercut each other to do that job. If you're really concerned about the time it takes to make the ISK you want, why not buy PLEX to convert to ISK? The exchange rate is quite favourable at this point in time.
You just basicly called the Incursion pilots CEO's of rich and Miners a bunch of kids making shoes...
The problem is not that I want to make a ton of isk and it's my only goal.
The problem is that my way of having fun is inferior in all aspects despite being equal in training time, right-click targetting amount; and even then we happen to do MORE WORK then these "ceo" who sit on their big pile of dam near free money by going into manufactoring and trading.
Why is my 'fun' that is also 'work that i enjoy' so far inferior to lazy people with shiny toys THAT I MADE. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:
So I'm here posting in several threads about the pisspoor management of the Economy and Mining in general...
Mining is in the state that it's in largely because of changes to the game loudly demanded by miners. When you have a low-skill, low risk, low investment, low attention activity that harvests an extremely abundant resource to sell in a competitive economy, then how much money do you think you're going to make at it? If you want to make mining lucrative, then you need to ask CCP to make it difficult, dangerous and for there to be far less asteroids available.
Another problem: It -is- dangerous because combat kiddies make it so. Have you not seen "Hulkageddon" and "Ice mining embargo by Goonswarm" and every year, according to the history of EVE, is a new threat to miners.
You wanted it to be dangerous? It's already there. We do just as much right-click targetting as combat pilots. Our profession, if anything, is among the MOST dangerous of professions. |
Kinetic Absorption
Hendrix Angels Fabricated Confabulations
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Same here. I want to mine but with all this stuff I'm learning it feels like I'm always looking over my shoulder
I'm flying a retriever in highsec and for all this hubbub about "low risk" it certainly doesn't feel like it.. I was less stressed when I was running missions x.x |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
126
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 06:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Okay... a few things...
1. You claim that you were attracted to this game because it was "like reality" and then balk when they guys with the guns make more money than an industrialist. You are aware that most mercenaries make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while your average miner barely clears between 30 to 60 thousand (at least here in the US).
2. You claim that you were attracted to this game because of the Economy, which is an almost pure "laissez faire" system.... yet you seem to be complaining about how there is very little money to be made in the profession of mining. Here's the thing... the amount of ISK you make is almost entirely dependent on supply and demand. So far, the trend is that there has been steadily increasing supply (because there are more and more people becoming miners who are mining more and more to make more ISK) with almost stagnant demand (not enough people are blowing up each others' ships). On the other hand... Incusions only pop up in select locations, their value is based on the LP you gain from them (the LP allows you to purchase items that are not in wide circulation), and the LP is only rewarded to those that do the most damage. This means there is very, very little supply to sate demand... which means that the stuff you buy with Incursion LP is worth more and commands a higher price.
3. You want CCP to do "something" to make mining more profitable? Like what? Creating a new ship that mines more than a Hulk will just make the problem worse (because it will increase supply, making minerals worth less). Taking asteroid belts away from many places (see: introducing "scarcity") is always an interesting option... but miners generally balk at this as it makes the profession more "difficult." CCP could go into the in-game market and buy off a ton of minerals to ease up the supply side of things... but this would be only a temporary fix at best. It would also go against CCP's "hands-off" policy regarding the in-game market. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Okay... a few things...
1. You claim that you were attracted to this game because it was "like reality" and then balk when they guys with the guns make more money than an industrialist. You are aware that most mercenaries make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while your average miner barely clears between 30 to 60 thousand (at least here in the US).
2. You claim that you were attracted to this game because of the Economy, which is an almost pure "laissez faire" system.... yet you seem to be complaining about how there is very little money to be made in the profession of mining. Here's the thing... the amount of ISK you make is almost entirely dependent on supply and demand. So far, the trend is that there has been steadily increasing supply (because there are more and more people becoming miners who are mining more and more to make more ISK) with almost stagnant demand (not enough people are blowing up each others' ships). On the other hand... Incusions only pop up in select locations, their value is based on the LP you gain from them (the LP allows you to purchase items that are not in wide circulation), and the LP is only rewarded to those that do the most damage. This means there is very, very little supply to sate demand... which means that the stuff you buy with Incursion LP is worth more and commands a higher price.
3. You want CCP to do "something" to make mining more profitable? Like what? Creating a new ship that mines more than a Hulk will just make the problem worse (because it will increase supply, making minerals worth less). Taking asteroid belts away from many places (see: introducing "scarcity") is always an interesting option... but miners generally balk at this as it makes the profession more "difficult." CCP could go into the in-game market and buy off a ton of minerals to ease up the supply side of things... but this would be only a temporary fix at best. It would also go against CCP's "hands-off" policy regarding the in-game market.
1) Do we live in space right now? You would think realism was referring to if WE were in space like this.
2) You just made a good point. We should remove remote reppers so that more ships are lost and demand is higher. Thanks!
3) I'd rather not mine MORE because the hulk can't fit much in it's cargo. I'd rather a ship that mined less but could HOLD more. Like how orca's are but made for mining instead of hauling. Because as things are right now; an Orca is what I have to aim for to keep profit which mind you takes 2-3 months atleast to train for and mine effectively with. Just like all these people for their shiny battleships. No reason to touch the market. Give us ores that are in null/lowsec into highsec is another option!
We already have the risk of being ganked in highsec, why not just give us the nullsec ores since it'd be stupid to go to nullsec without being in a GIANT alliance with a safe system for mining in.
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:3) I'd rather not mine MORE because the hulk can't fit much in it's cargo. I'd rather a ship that mined less but could HOLD more. Like how orca's are but made for mining instead of hauling. Because as things are right now; an Orca is what I have to aim for to keep profit which mind you takes 2-3 months atleast to train for and mine effectively with. Just like all these people for their shiny battleships. No reason to touch the market. Give us ores that are in null/lowsec into highsec is another option!
We already have the risk of being ganked in highsec, why not just give us the nullsec ores since it'd be stupid to go to nullsec without being in a GIANT alliance with a safe system for mining in.
LOL! You are a funny troll!
So you want to mine less than a Hulk and still want to earn more?
You are attracted to this game because of it's player driven economy and yet you show so little knowledge about it. What would happen if rare ores would be seeded in high-sec? How long would it take until the prices fall .... deep? Or do you think they will rise?
From your angry posts I see that you mine alone. Have you thought about joining mining groups to increase yield? |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ah, I'm sorry, I don't live under a bridge, no. Trolling is more of what you are doing.
And yes, I would love to mine less then a hulk but with the cargo capacity of an orca. It's less trips back and forth to a station. As for your reference to 'mining corp' .. why should I be forced to? Even then, I can't just jump in a system and go "Miner lf orca support, fleet invite please." and expect to get one.
I also can't keep a hulk for more then a week because every week some combat kiddie giggling his arse off gets his buddies and suicide ganks it. But yet we let these incursion pilots with a 1.2-1.5bil ship earn a billion isk in a day and not lose their "shiny little toy" for months on end.
So tell me... How would YOU fix the market? I personally would remove remote reppers so those shiny toys die once in awhile and the demand for minerals is increased. OR just put nullsec ores into highsec so solo miners have a remote chance to even compete.
Now at this point I have to rebound YOUR accusation and call YOU a troll. Either that or you're just a very heartless guy and want miners to suffer for eternity. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
You're going nowhere with this 'miners afk' thing. Not everyone has $45 to spend to get 2 hulks and an orca on alt accounts. There are more miners in 1 account then these multi boxers.
Why are you complaining about having to get a small fleet to mine anyway? You need 45 dollars to have 2 hulks an an orca in solo? Care to calculate the price of 3 T3 ships, 2 Faction BS, and 2 logistic cruisers to run an incursion? That's about 105 Dollars to multibox that and billions of isks to invest in. (And yes some people actually do have multiple accounts to get 20 ships together and run incursions in solo.)
Or.... you make some friends to fly those other ships and voila, you save yourself the need to pay alt accounts. This is an MMo afterall. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:
You're going nowhere with this 'miners afk' thing. Not everyone has $45 to spend to get 2 hulks and an orca on alt accounts. There are more miners in 1 account then these multi boxers.
Why are you complaining about having to have a small fleet to mine anyway? You need 45 dollars to have 2 hulks an an orca in solo? Care to calculate the price of 3 T3 ships, 2 Faction BS, and 2 logistic cruisers to run an incursion? That's about 105 Dollars to multibox that and billions of isks to invest in. Or.... you make some friends to fly those other ships and voila, you save yourself the need to pay alt account. This is an MMo afterall.
Refer to post above where I say that a miner can't necessarily jump into local with "Miner LF orca Fleet" and expect to get one. Also it's not completely common to have a corp with an orca to spare 24/7.
Sooo saying multiboxing all those for an incursion? I would like someone to post a screenshot of them sitting in front of their computer with all of that going on because I doubt highly anyone has.
Whereas a big portion of miners are forced to mutlibox a hauler due to such ridiculously low cargo space on a 200million isk hulk which quite a few people lose frequently to highsec ganks nowadays. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
200
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:I also can't keep a hulk for more then a week because every week some combat kiddie giggling his arse off gets his buddies and suicide ganks it.
Where are you mining?
The belts where I usually hang out are quite safe: I'd sit there with an unattended fleet of two hulks and an orca from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed, returning to the computer occasionally to move ore to the Orca or haul stuff back to station. Not much of an income, but far better than I could make if I was trying to run missions while gardening and housekeeping.
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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:I also can't keep a hulk for more then a week because every week some combat kiddie giggling his arse off gets his buddies and suicide ganks it. Where are you mining? The belts where I usually hang out are quite safe: I'd sit there with an unattended fleet of two hulks and an orca from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed, returning to the computer occasionally to move ore to the Orca or haul stuff back to station. Not much of an income, but far better than I could make if I was trying to run missions while gardening and housekeeping.
I was in Amarr/Minmatar areas for pyroxes for awhile but that's where I was always being suicided. So far I've gone 3 weeks now without losing a hulk now. But that's because 2 suicide ganks failed because I've rigged out my hulk with a huge buffer. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 07:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Refer to post above where I say that a miner can't necessarily jump into local with "Miner LF orca Fleet" and expect to get one. Also it's not completely common to have a corp with an orca to spare 24/7.
Sooo saying multiboxing all those for an incursion? I would like someone to post a screenshot of them sitting in front of their computer with all of that going on because I doubt highly anyone has.
Whereas a big portion of miners are forced to mutlibox a hauler due to such ridiculously low cargo space on a 200million isk hulk which quite a few people lose frequently to highsec ganks nowadays.
Oh because you think you can just /Lfg an incursion on local?
Let me get this straight out of the box for you. Because Incursions are now the best way to make isks (There is now denying that fact), you have 50 ships doing them at the same time. Problem is, if you are more than 20 or 10 (Depending on the level of the incursion) you 0 isks from the incursion.
The isks will go to the top DPS, and the rest will have nothing to bones to chew on. You really thing that in that scenario a FC will pick up a random guy in local channel? Don't be silly :3
And if be great chance, you get a fleet this way. The FC will scan your ship. If he see's something he dosn't like there, he will ask you to leave and if you refuse he will give instructions to logistic ships to let you die when you get primaried. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Refer to post above where I say that a miner can't necessarily jump into local with "Miner LF orca Fleet" and expect to get one. Also it's not completely common to have a corp with an orca to spare 24/7.
Sooo saying multiboxing all those for an incursion? I would like someone to post a screenshot of them sitting in front of their computer with all of that going on because I doubt highly anyone has.
Whereas a big portion of miners are forced to mutlibox a hauler due to such ridiculously low cargo space on a 200million isk hulk which quite a few people lose frequently to highsec ganks nowadays.
Oh because you think you can just /Lfg an incursion on local? Let me get this straight out of the box for you. Because Incursions are now the best way to make isks (There is now denying that fact), you have 50 ships doing them at the same time. Problem is, if you are more than 20 or 10 (Depending on the level of the incursion) you 0 isks from the incursion. The isks will go to the top DPS, and the rest will have nothing to bones to chew on. You really thing that in that scenario a FC will pick up a random guy in local channel? Don't be silly :3 And if be great chance, you get a fleet this way. The FC will scan your ship. If he see's something he dosn't like there, he will ask you to leave and if you refuse he will give instructions to logistic ships to let you die when you get primaried.
Which doesn't deny the fact that one person in 1 fleet has the ability to pull a billion isk/day. Nor that a missioner lvl 4's can make the money back for his ship in a very short amount of time.
I don't mind these being true quite honestly. I'm fine with how much income all these "i trained forever in combat" pilots make, but if we're going to go around giving such tremendous opportunity to money making to these people then what about the industrial pilots that work a HECK of A LOT harder with spreadsheets and market prediction making only a tenth(if not less) then these people who put very little work into just fitting the right mods and clicking a button?
The only reason people have miners nowadays is because they find a pocket and do real life things while they make isk VERY slowly and VERY minimally. So why not change mining and give each part of industrial the same chance at that large pool of income/day?
Why are combat pilots so much more privelaged when a solo miner has to t2 fit an orca(including VERY VERY expensive t2mining drones) to be able to compete in his profession?
Are you denying that mining needs a huge makeover and made more profitable because they put the same amount of time and more work then combat pilots(if they invest into marketting)? |
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