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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ayla Vanir
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:55:00 -
[61]
This is an interesting topic, as it sheds light on one of the issues that may have an measurable impact on major alliances and corps. That is, something that could actually present some level of risk to a shaky alliance or corp that just invested a bit too much ISK/time/people/resources into some thing or other.
On one hand, I see logic in assuming safe guards would be in place to protect such valuable assets. This logic comes from real-world experience. But real-world logic is often shot down as a valid rationale for a given discussion topic within the EVE universe.
On the other hand, I see it as a Good Thing (tm) to give the major players something to think about during their sleepless hours. It's the classic Risk vs. Reward aspect of EVE game play - writ large. Huge rewards potentially come from having such fleet ships. Maybe they need to have an equivalent risk associated with losing one. I think for this reason alone these ships shouldn't come with any additional protection that any other ship couldn't have.
Escrow Market Revamp
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TauTut
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:18:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kylania Titans will be play things exclusively for the uber alliance leaders. All normal players shouldn't even worry about them, since you'll never own one and probably never even see one.
This is the kind of attitude that was expressed about Jedi in the early days of Star Wars Galaxies ... now you can't even fart without one popping out of your backside.
-TT
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Soren
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:29:00 -
[63]
All ownership of titans will be given to me, I promise to take care of them. _______________________________________________
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:36:00 -
[64]
U can bet your ass that alliances will start having multiple members training on the ability to pilot a titan and they will try to take it if they have an opportunity! Atleast thats what i would do. If there would be any chance on capturing/stealing a titan in one piece that should be preference above blowing it up, how tempting and 'l33t' that may be.
But sadly titans are indeed the playthings of the uber rich and unless ccp lets someone parade it around empire in some form of event i don't think me and most other players will ever see one.
Actually i'm starting to get concerned about that, sure it's cool such a big uber ship, but i think it's time now that ccp starts to look at the masses again and put in stuff your average podpilot can use and afford and stop spending time on big toys for the select uber few... but hey thats IMO
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:43:00 -
[65]
This whole issue does not even really need discussing as you need a dedicated character for the vessel as it is.
Trust of the person who flies it has to be total and if you dont have that trust in that person then such a vessel isnt for your corp.
Besides it isnt CCP's job to build a system to cover you from the harshness of betrayal and your lack of character judgement should someone run off with one. -----
Current Faction Sales:
3 x Navy Issue Ravens, 1 x Dread Gurista Web, 1 x Shadow Serpentis Heavy Neutron Blaster |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:15:00 -
[66]
"Trust of the person who flies it has to be total and if you dont have that trust in that person then such a vessel isnt for your corp.
Besides it isnt CCP's job to build a system to cover you from the harshness of betrayal and your lack of character judgement should someone run off with one."
Ask Istvaan or Kayo about how well one can really judge, if their corp mates are worthy of trust at this scale...
We have built-in security measures for blueprints which are often worth much less than these new ships. There's nothing wrong in requesting similar sort of security measures for assets costing this much.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.19 20:12:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ukucia
Originally by: SengH ok how about this... 2 carriers remote armor repping each other tanking concord indefinetly and letting their fighters just butcher everything at the gate? Its easily possible with a 3rd T2 BC running gang mods and the mindlink implant... esp since capital ships are supposed to be immune to EW.
CONCORD doesn't have to play by the rules. Beef up their EW so that cap ships aren't immune. Or give them a "Jove Cannon of WTFBBQPWNage". Or spawn 800 of them. The lag in that system would keep people from warping into the danger zone until CONCORD finally destroyed them.
Hi, being able to tank CONCORD without dying is considered an exploit, and CONCORD would pop the fighters like zits.
Also, a Carrier isn't going to be able to tank concord. Heavily Hardened 20k armor BSes die in well under 30 seconds.
A Carrier will die even faster, because a CONCORD patrol is most likely going to spawn for each fighter, and atm, Carriers can't get in high sec, or be built there (or did they decide to change that?) So it's really a moot point.
Now a Dread with sme killer setup in siege mode could probably tank a CONCORD group indefintely, but you can't stay in siege mode forever, and passerbys are going to eventually start shooting you too.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.19 20:14:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Riffix Some numbers and skill figured thrown out in this thread are not accurate. Just so everyone is clear:
Skill reqs and prices (domain region)
Mothership Faction carrier skill 450mil (note: dread skills are 90mil) Capital ships skill 360mil Advanced Spaceship command 45mil (this is beyond the BS skills and this does not include jump drive operations or any skills for using captial modules, fighters or anything)
Titans same as above but include 4.5 mil for factional titan skill
You mean 4.5bil for the titan skill.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.01.19 20:46:00 -
[69]
Originally by: rod blaine Also, anyone that does not simply train and assign a specific character to fly a titan and leave it in it to log off with the ship rather then leave it at a pos to be destroyed by a hostile fleet at that one time of day your pilot isnt online, simply deserves no better.
Yes it's a major sacrifice to make, a character that highly trained locked up ina titan for most of its days, but then again, that's what character sales are good for.
Honestly this is the best and most realistic policy for a titan.
As for who flies it, look at it another way. What is the street value in euros or dollars of 70 Billion isk. Even if you calculate it at roughly 15 US per 100m isk.....that's a LOT of equivalent RL cash. (70,000,000,000/100,000,000)* 30 = $10,500.00 Dollars.
Now the next time you go down to the pub with your mates, look at them very very closely. How many would you really trust with that amount of RL cash just sitting around?
Real life, verifiable info is the only way to really be secure in handing over that amount of assets to any one person in an alliance or corp. And if you don't trust your CEO/Alliance leader with your actual phone # and address why should they trust you with over ten thousand real life dollars?
Nyxus
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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Riffix
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Posted - 2006.01.19 21:32:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Riffix
Titans same as above but include 4.5 mil for factional titan skill
You mean 4.5bil for the titan skill.
LOL, you are correct. Thanks for catching me totally screwing the point of my post. It has been edited
"Lead, follow, or get the #@$@#$ out of the way" |
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.01.20 06:07:00 -
[71]
Edited by: pershphanie on 20/01/2006 06:08:33 If titans and motherships are too big to fit in stations then how can you buy a ship hanger at a station big enough to fit a titan? Wouldnt the ship hanger be too big to fit in a station as well?
But seriously.. how the hell are you supposed to safly sell a titan/mothership? Especially the ew immune mothership. Are you supposed to just trust whom ever you are selling it to not to rip you off?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.20 06:16:00 -
[72]
"But seriously.. how the hell are you supposed to safly sell a titan/mothership? Especially the ew immune mothership. Are you supposed to just trust whom ever you are selling it to not to rip you off?"
I henceforth volunteer as independent and unbiased third party for titan and mothership sales o/
one side simply hands me the keys to the ship, and the other, the isk that's supposed to be payment... then, when i get both i simply hand the money to the former keys owner, and vice versa.
... honest >>;;
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Ukucia
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Posted - 2006.01.20 09:56:00 -
[73]
Originally by: pershphanie
If titans and motherships are too big to fit in stations then how can you buy a ship hanger at a station big enough to fit a titan? Wouldnt the ship hanger be too big to fit in a station as well?
Maybe the hangars will be packaged like Ikea furniture.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.20 10:17:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Gariuys on 20/01/2006 10:18:48 Edited by: Gariuys on 20/01/2006 10:17:33
Originally by: j0sephine "But seriously.. how the hell are you supposed to safly sell a titan/mothership? Especially the ew immune mothership. Are you supposed to just trust whom ever you are selling it to not to rip you off?"
I henceforth volunteer as independent and unbiased third party for titan and mothership sales o/
one side simply hands me the keys to the ship, and the other, the isk that's supposed to be payment... then, when i get both i simply hand the money to the former keys owner, and vice versa.
... honest >>;;
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.01.20 10:41:00 -
[75]
All i am going to say is risk V reward, and dont fly it if you can not afford to lose it, There should be no way to lock i any ship to your corp, The simple fact is there is a 6 page thred on this forum (now with added dev) with all you hard core pvper's biotching about not changeing the game.
To reduce penilitys well if you trust the wrong person with your 50 billion isk ship thats your fault, if you leave it in space floating about for any one with the skills to steal then thats your fault.
Titans and ms's should be fair game nothing special, Co i tell you know if you leave your ships in space and its worth some isk, and i find it I will be taking it!
And thats the way you want it to be.
------------------------------------------------- Contribute to the buy Hohenheim a carrier fund in game now! |
csebal
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:33:00 -
[76]
Originally by: j0sephine "Trust of the person who flies it has to be total and if you dont have that trust in that person then such a vessel isnt for your corp.
Besides it isnt CCP's job to build a system to cover you from the harshness of betrayal and your lack of character judgement should someone run off with one."
Ask Istvaan or Kayo about how well one can really judge, if their corp mates are worthy of trust at this scale...
We have built-in security measures for blueprints which are often worth much less than these new ships. There's nothing wrong in requesting similar sort of security measures for assets costing this much.
Honestly m8. Anyone learning titan skill has already got skills worth billions from its corp / alliance (i doubt many have the isk themselves to learn such things). That alone requires immense trust.
If such a guy leaves the corp or stops playing eve, its a theft bigger than most medicore corps could ever suffer simply because they do not have that much value laying around to be stolen.
Now if said pilot also takes a titan with him.. nope. If you can't trust the person flying YOUR titan, then you should not have a titan. Trust / personal connections are the most valuable assets in this game, and CCP should not devalue them by inventing 'trust-insurance' for multi-billion ISK investments.
What should they do? By that logic, if say I steal a titan, they should take it from me and ban me for corp theft? If they do, they can start banning everyone for it. Furthermore, if i simply leave my corp with 5bils worth of titan skills in my head, and join the enemy alliance, should CCP give those skill books back to my corp and erease the skills from my head?
Nope. You can not build an insurance around something like this. Just as the old saying says: Don't stretch beyond your means.
Things like titans / motherships are not for individuals. They are meant for groups. If you can't find / train pilots the group can trust 101%, then the group is not suited for projects of this scale.
My post does not represent the general or official opinion of HUN corp, or The Forsaken Empire. No matter what YOU believe. |
Seleene
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:38:00 -
[77]
Awesome post, csebal. Very well put! -
History of the MC Teaser Trailer |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2006.01.20 12:11:00 -
[78]
Nomatter what you do as far as restricting the pilots ability to jump corp so on and so forth, if the person entrusted with the titan decides to get out there is not a thing CCP or anyone else can do about it.
For one thing he could simply have a buddy in another corp (the one he is defecting to) set upp a jump field, he jumps there and jetisons from the titan, naturally the people waiting have a titan pilot waiting to hop in and *poof* titan is lost.
Well to be honest you dont even have to be that creative, simply fly off and meet the replacement pilot and make the switch... once outside of the titan not much can keep the leaving pilot in the corp.
Thus in short, I can only give the same advice people give when it comes to protecting against corp theft, only allow people you TRUST to fly the titan.
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Karmic
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Posted - 2006.01.20 12:15:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Seleene Awesome post, csebal. Very well put!
Seleene you know you trust me and all .... Can I borrow your Nyx when you get it and take it out for a spin ? - - - - - - - - -
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:02:00 -
[80]
so basically I have to hand a mothership over to rkk to sell it
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Lacero Callrisian
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:17:00 -
[81]
I think we will end up with lots flying around, just because they're so hard to kill. Immune to EW means they can warp from safe spot to safe spot for ever, and then log after the pvp timer runs out. The same goes for motherships.
Although they will be built slowly and in small numbers, if none ever die there will be lots of them in a year or so. More so for Motherships as they're cheaper.
Also, if you're supposed to have one pilot who sits in the titan all the time most alliances will need 3 or 4 titans just to make sure one is always available. This also leads to there being lots in game.
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Aelfren Blackshadow
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:37:00 -
[82]
Titan theft, I don't read or reply to these forums very often but be able to steal a Titan is insane. The developer / manufacturer of these Titans must have been either very stupid or drunk while designing its defensive systems.
I'm no new starship designer but just for starters how about a password protect on the ships computer? Incorrect password enters and the pilot is vented into space or electrocuted. In addition require a different password on the attempted warping on the Titan, in case the password gets hacked, same penalty for incorrect entry.
Finally have the CEO have a destroy Titan button useable from the same system, which prevents the corps own asset from being used against it.
I'm sure there are better ideas, but I know if I were designing one they'd be virtually impossible to steal.
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Moridin
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:52:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Aelfren Blackshadow Titan theft, I don't read or reply to these forums very often but be able to steal a Titan is insane. The developer / manufacturer of these Titans must have been either very stupid or drunk while designing its defensive systems.
I'm no new starship designer but just for starters how about a password protect on the ships computer? Incorrect password enters and the pilot is vented into space or electrocuted. In addition require a different password on the attempted warping on the Titan, in case the password gets hacked, same penalty for incorrect entry.
Finally have the CEO have a destroy Titan button useable from the same system, which prevents the corps own asset from being used against it.
I'm sure there are better ideas, but I know if I were designing one they'd be virtually impossible to steal.
i like all those idea. but those are all sa***uard against theft. they do not cover if a director backstabs you.
also im not to fond of a destroy button. things might happen.
like i had this guy 1 time "i think it was not intended" who ejected from his ship while we were doing a 1on1 pvp |
Void Dragon
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:54:00 -
[84]
IF i ever stole a titan id just recycle it
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csebal
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:59:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Void Dragon IF i ever stole a titan id just recycle it
And you WOULD die under the sheer weight of the minerals you would get. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of HUN corp, or The Forsaken Empire. No matter what YOU believe. |
Jazzatola
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Posted - 2006.01.20 13:59:00 -
[86]
I'm playing devil's advocate here but don't the usual Eve rules apply just at a larger scale?
Don't fly a ship you can't afford to lose. If you can't afford to lose a capital ship then maybe you should be setting your sights a little lower?
-Jazzatola (CEO) Gallente Research Institute |
csebal
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Posted - 2006.01.20 14:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Aelfren Blackshadow
Finally have the CEO have a destroy Titan button useable from the same system, which prevents the corps own asset from being used against it.
IT would create a distortion of such proportions, that the system would collapse into itself, vanishing from the map completely, wiping out all life within 5 light years :) My post does not represent the general or official opinion of HUN corp, or The Forsaken Empire. No matter what YOU believe. |
Aelfren Blackshadow
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Posted - 2006.01.20 14:05:00 -
[88]
I must be having a dumb day can't seem to get the quote to work.
The idea for the passwords was to guard against a director back stabbing you as well as general theft.
I'll explain, you don't give the directors the password to pilot the Titan, only your trusted Titan pilots get to know this. Only the trusted directors get to know the password that allows the Titan to warp.
NEVER give both passwords to one person. That way it would require 2 trusted high ranked people in the corp to back stab you and steal the Titan.
The final recourse of the CEO in the event this happens is to simply destroy the Titan, I'd put the button in the Corp interface somewhere new so that it would be very hard to press by mistake. However if this button is needed I'd say the the corp has more problems than a stolen Titan.
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Morgana Janan
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Posted - 2006.01.20 14:24:00 -
[89]
It actually makes sense to me for Titans to be a risky investment, and stealable as such. Any corporation - or alliance, for that matter - with the resources, time, and effort to build one of these big expensive monsters is taking a substantial risk. That includes the threat of theft and that these things are the biggest bullet magnets in the 'verse. You have to balance that out with the prestige (*cough* Freudian overcompensation *cough*) and sheer power of owning it.
It's a calculated risk. And I think that's for the best. A ship with as much destructive power as a Titan has to have some major downsides, including the threat of theft.
So how do you insure your Titan isn't stolen? Do what people in the real world do with aircraft carriers and battleships and nuclear bombs: post guards, do very thorough background checks on anyone joining your corporation capable of using such a behemoth, and make it clear what the consequences of such an action would be.
It adds to the richness of EVE, in my opinion.
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Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.01.20 14:46:00 -
[90]
GTT...
Grand Theft Titan... LOL
Seriously, stealing a titan would be quite an undertaking. First, you'd have to remove it from it's dock. How can be done in various ways. Second, it would have to contain fuel for the jump drive, if not, you won't be going anywhere!. Then you'd need a friend to create a cynos field for you to escape, so it's a two man job at least, plus, let's hope your friend doesn't get found and ganked in the process.
Ok so you do all that, you've got the 6 bil in skillbooks, you had the friend in the indy who brought the fuel to jump after you cunningly removed the Titan from it's dock, you have the friend setting up a cynos field... you jump, you're out!!!
Weeee... now where are you gonna go with your titan? Sell it? To who? Fly around in it? For how long? SHOULD you get so lucky as to be able to sell it to an enemy of the people you stole it from for example. You will still have to move it there. No doubt, the people who you stole it from will not just lie down and let you merrily fly around in it.
It's not impossible, but just quite challenging. It's something close to stealing a bugatti veyron and trying to sell it on the black market... good luck ^^ |
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