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Ezra Endashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.12 08:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm new to EVE and I like it so much especially mining. So I have a question about Mining Barges and for example Retriever. It have 2 high slots but 0 turret hardpoints. So what's the point of having this barge without being able to install Mining laser?
All 3 Mining barges for ORE have 0 turret hardpoints, I don't get it. ORE Mining Barges |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
184
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Posted - 2013.07.12 08:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ezra Endashi wrote:I'm new to EVE and I like it so much especially mining. So I have a question about Mining Barges and for example Retriever. It have 2 high slots but 0 turret hardpoints. So what's the point of having this barge without being able to install Mining laser? All 3 Mining barges for ORE have 0 turret hardpoints, I don't get it. ORE Mining Barges
Because they use Strip miners which are different from your standard miners, they are not actually classed as a turreted system. And yes, you will need to train to use them too |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
110
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Posted - 2013.07.12 08:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mining Barges and Exumers use Strip Miners |
Ezra Endashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ok, I get it now :) I'll train for that and I'm already savin' ISK for that
Thx |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1657
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Consider as an intermediate ship, using a procurer.
Far better tank, similar yield, smaller ore hold.
And a lot cheaper, at around 12 million, rather than 27 million, and 1 less strip miner to buy (It gets a 200% bonus to yield, to the retrievers 66% bonus. both work out at around 3 strip miners worth) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Ezra Endashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.12 10:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Consider as an intermediate ship, using a procurer.
Far better tank, similar yield, smaller ore hold.
And a lot cheaper, at around 12 million, rather than 27 million, and 1 less strip miner to buy (It gets a 200% bonus to yield, to the retrievers 66% bonus. both work out at around 3 strip miners worth)
Well I saw that Retriever is much more expensive but I didn't know for bonuses on Procurer. Think I'll try with with Procurer than. Thx for intel |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
187
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
What you have to remember, is that up until recently both the Procurer and Retriever and their T2 versions were just viewed as stepping stones until you could fly the might Hulk.
But about a year ago CCP re-jigged them all to give them a different role,
So now you have the;
Procurer/Skiff. for dangerous area mining. Lots of good resists, a single Strip miner, which mines 3 times the amount as a Coveter/Hulk. But only has a moderate sized ore hold.
Retriever/Mackinaw. Ideal for the solo miner. Huge ore hold, only two Strip Miners, which each mines 1.5 the amount of a Coveter/Hulk
Coveter/Hulk. Designed to shred roids fast, they can chew through at an incredible rate. But a small hold means you have to have a hauler in support or you are going to be docking just about every cycle
So, now it's not the case of bigger is best, it's using the right ship for the job |
Threndir
Knights of the Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Max, you make it sound like the Procurer and Skiff actually do mine more than a Covertor / Hulk. I know you do not meant it that way but a better comparison (in my opinion) would be:
A procurer/skiff have only 1 strip miner, but a 200% bonus to strip miner yield. The one stripminer mines as 3 un-bonussed strip miners.
A Retriever/Mackinaw have 2 stip miners but every strip miner get's a 50% bonus to strip miner yield. The 2 strip miners mine as 3 unbonussed strip miners.
etc :)
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Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
189
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Threndir wrote:Max, you make it sound like the Procurer and Skiff actually do mine more than a Covertor / Hulk. I know you do not meant it that way but a better comparison (in my opinion) would be:
A procurer/skiff have only 1 strip miner, but a 200% bonus to strip miner yield. The one stripminer mines as 3 un-bonussed strip miners.
A Retriever/Mackinaw have 2 stip miners but every strip miner get's a 50% bonus to strip miner yield. The 2 strip miners mine as 3 unbonussed strip miners.
etc :)
Sorry, bad wording on my part. You are right. On paper they are all ballanced to act as if they has 3 strips fitted. But, because of the bonuses the Covertor / Hulk get, they rip out a hell of a lot more when the math is done |
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.07.12 13:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
I personally prefer the procurer for mining. I just like the safety of having a lot more tank. Not a fan of the squishy retriever. |
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Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
220
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Posted - 2013.07.12 13:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
There's give-and-take among the various barges. The Procurer has a moderate ore hold (12,000 m3) and two low slots for mounting mining laser upgrade units, but is the toughest of the mining barges, capable of fielding a battleship-grade shield tank. The Retriever has three low slots for MLU's, which can boost its yield-per-minute beyond the Procurer's, and has a much larger ore hold (up to 27,000 m3, depending on Mining Barge skill) for extended loiter time, but has much weaker defenses. The Covetor has bonuses to yield tied to the Mining Barge skill, along with two low slots for MLU's, but sacrifices both loiter time (its ore hold is only 7,000 m3) and defenses; it's ill-suited for solo work, geared more towards mining fleet operations. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
31
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Posted - 2013.07.12 14:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse wrote:I personally prefer the procurer for mining. I just like the safety of having a lot more tank. Not a fan of the squishy retriever.
+1 to this. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1669
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Posted - 2013.07.12 20:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
[Procurer, tank]
Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
EM Ward Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Medium Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Strip Miner I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
That's around 30 million in ship and fittings. 66.9k ehp uniform. 74.1k vs antimatter. 15 days to train with no implants or remaps (though you won't get the levels with that. that's with 5s across the board)
If you go active on the tank (fields, rather than amps) you'll get around 5k ehp more. At the cost of 5 days more training.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
10418
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Posted - 2013.07.12 20:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
^^ @ 66k EHP most suicide gankers will pass you over for the guy in the poorly tanked Mackinaw next to you, in fact unless you've really really annoyed someone you're extremely unlikely to get ganked with this fit.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.07.13 05:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:^^ @ 66k EHP most suicide gankers will pass you over for the guy in the poorly tanked Mackinaw next to you, in fact unless you've really really annoyed someone you're extremely unlikely to get ganked with this fit.
That's exactly why I like the procurer, ha ha! |
Ezra Endashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
One more newbie question, what is EHP? |
Threndir
Knights of the Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Effective_hitpoints |
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
36
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ezra Endashi wrote:One more newbie question, what is EHP?
Effective Hit Points. The sum total of your shields, armor and structure based on your lowest resists.
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Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:That's around 30 million in ship and fittings. 66.9k ehp uniform. 74.1k vs antimatter. 15 days to train with no implants or remaps (though you won't get the levels with that. that's with 5s across the board)
If you go active on the tank (fields, rather than amps) you'll get around 5k ehp more. At the cost of 5 days more training.
[Procurer, tank]
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
81k EHP (omni)
No implants needed. Shield Upgrades 5 not needed. |
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.07.13 12:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:That's around 30 million in ship and fittings. 66.9k ehp uniform. 74.1k vs antimatter. 15 days to train with no implants or remaps (though you won't get the levels with that. that's with 5s across the board)
If you go active on the tank (fields, rather than amps) you'll get around 5k ehp more. At the cost of 5 days more training.
[Procurer, tank] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I 81k EHP (omni) No implants needed. Shield Upgrades 5 not needed. Only modules/rigs that don't contribute to your tank are strip miner and ACR rig. PDS gives you nice buff to shield HP.
With all that stuff and all V's I'm only seeing 71k EHP...is that a typo?
Having said that...I wouldn't take a Power Diagnostic System II. I'd take a Shield Power Relay II personally.. |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1693
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Posted - 2013.07.13 12:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:That's around 30 million in ship and fittings. 66.9k ehp uniform. 74.1k vs antimatter. 15 days to train with no implants or remaps (though you won't get the levels with that. that's with 5s across the board)
If you go active on the tank (fields, rather than amps) you'll get around 5k ehp more. At the cost of 5 days more training.
[Procurer, tank] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I 81k EHP (omni) No implants needed. Shield Upgrades 5 not needed. Only modules/rigs that don't contribute to your tank are strip miner and ACR rig. PDS gives you nice buff to shield HP.
I'm only seeing 71k ehp? 7 million or so more expensive, and 6 days more training (I pulled it back to a strip 1 for that, to make the training time difference fairer. otherwise it'd be 29 days)
Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 takes a while to train. And it's not like anyone on the fit I suggested needs Shield Upgrades 5. The Amps only need it at 4.
The big difference with the tank is that yours is more on shields than hull. So repairing from an almost successful gank would probably be cheaper for this fit. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.07.13 17:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tobias Hareka wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:That's around 30 million in ship and fittings. 66.9k ehp uniform. 74.1k vs antimatter. 15 days to train with no implants or remaps (though you won't get the levels with that. that's with 5s across the board)
If you go active on the tank (fields, rather than amps) you'll get around 5k ehp more. At the cost of 5 days more training.
[Procurer, tank] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I 81k EHP (omni) No implants needed. Shield Upgrades 5 not needed. Only modules/rigs that don't contribute to your tank are strip miner and ACR rig. PDS gives you nice buff to shield HP. I'm only seeing 71k ehp? 7 million or so more expensive, and 6 days more training (I pulled it back to a strip 1 for that, to make the training time difference fairer. otherwise it'd be 29 days) Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 takes a while to train. And it's not like anyone on the fit I suggested needs Shield Upgrades 5. The Amps only need it at 4. The big difference with the tank is that yours is more on shields than hull. So repairing from an almost successful gank would probably be cheaper for this fit.
Yes it may be more expensive but you're less likely to be ganked. If you repeatedly lose retrievers then you're going to be out more money in the long run. Having said that...I agree with the strip 1 notion. Only because it cuts down on training time AND cost.
However...the support skills I must push for. You absolutely want those at least at IV for all purposes. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
93
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Posted - 2013.07.14 03:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
You don't need T2 anything to fly a Procurer in 0.5 or higher space and be 99% safe from ganking.
[Procurer, CONCORD Bait Car]
Mining Laser Upgrade I Mining Laser Upgrade I
Survey Scanner I Medium Shield Extender I Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Strip Miner I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
With both invluns running you get 35k EHP. It would take 2 x Catalysts doing 700dps and costing 30mil isk total to gank this 15mil isk or so boat. Most gankers probably aren't doing 700dps, so they'll need more pilots and ships. You can replace a mining laser upgrade with a Damage Control I and get a ton more ehp. No one will make any profit off ganking this boat. If you get ganked its because they hate you. When they gank you ***** the KMs and you will be in the green on your killboard.
If you don't believe me, check the New Order killboard and see how many Procurers are on it. They'll go after the mack sitting next to you. If they get enough pilots to hate-gank your Procurer, they'll probably just try to get a couple more pilots to gank the anti-tanked Orca sitting in the belt.
Newbies should be able to fly this easy peasy.
I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Verran 'Firefox' Severasse
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.07.14 03:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:You don't need T2 anything to fly a Procurer in 0.5 or higher space and be 99% safe from ganking.
[Procurer, CONCORD Bait Car]
Mining Laser Upgrade I Mining Laser Upgrade I
Survey Scanner I Medium Shield Extender I Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Strip Miner I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
With both invluns running you get 35k EHP. It would take 2 x Catalysts doing 700dps and costing 30mil isk total to gank this 15mil isk or so boat. Most gankers probably aren't doing 700dps, so they'll need more pilots and ships. You can replace a mining laser upgrade with a Damage Control I and get a ton more ehp. No one will make any profit off ganking this boat. If you get ganked its because they hate you. When they gank you ***** the KMs and you will be in the green on your killboard.
If you don't believe me, check the New Order killboard and see how many Procurers are on it. They'll go after the mack sitting next to you. If they get enough pilots to hate-gank your Procurer, they'll probably just try to get a couple more pilots to gank the anti-tanked Orca sitting in the belt.
Newbies should be able to fly this easy peasy.
This is true...I was thinking more along the lines of 0.6 but T1's are fine yeah.
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