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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Its only produces tritanium which is the cheapest ore so you can't get much for it so your ISK an hour is low. For this reason I avoid it and go for the more expensive ores.
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like. |
MicDeath Titan
Twilight Star Rangers
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Its only produces tritanium which is the cheapest ore so you can't get much for it so your ISK an hour is low. For this reason I avoid it and go for the more expensive ores.
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like. Because when you run a large fleet, moving said fleet the moment a system is scordite free hurts much more than actually just mining the damn veld. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 09:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
MicDeath Titan wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Its only produces tritanium which is the cheapest ore so you can't get much for it so your ISK an hour is low. For this reason I avoid it and go for the more expensive ores.
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like. Because when you run a large fleet, moving said fleet the moment a system is scordite free hurts much more than actually just mining the damn veld.
I was thinking more in terms of solo mining. |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
59
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Posted - 2013.07.12 10:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
As solominer its usually best to go for the more valuable ores and even focus on the higher yield rocks of the said ores. Especially if you mine in the .5 .6 systems where you can find the better stuff more. If/when tritanium is in bigger demand then ofc Veldspar value starts to rise again. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1657
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Posted - 2013.07.12 10:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/
Right now, no, not really.
Of course, this can change, if the price of Trit goes up.
As Veld is the easiest ore to lay your hands on, this is a good situation. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 10:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/
Right now, no, not really.
Of course, this can change, if the price of Trit goes up.
As Veld is the easiest ore to lay your hands on, this is a good situation.
I take it trit will go up when FW heats up at the end of July. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
OK I don't keep tabs on FW, but what's happening at the end of July that will warrant a potential price hike in trit? |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alisarina wrote:OK I don't keep tabs on FW, but what's happening at the end of July that will warrant a potential price hike in trit?
start of the summer holidays in uk and other places. A load of users suddenly spend more time on EVE, that means more PvP that mean more loses that means more demand for ships. Ship builders will demand more trit, the price of trit rises. Simple economics |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
454
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Demand for would pyrite rise too in that situation, as would Mex, and all the other minerals (in the ratios the popular ships require).
More time spent on EVE also means more mining, more mission running so more minerals entering the market. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
16
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Demand for would pyrite rise too in that situation, as would Mex, and all the other minerals (in the ratios the popular ships require).
More time spent on EVE also means more mining, more mission running so more minerals entering the market.
that would depend highly on the ratios of players pvping and mining nad I'll admit that when I entered this game I was looking at combat instead of industry so I guess that people who aren't going to get very far into the game isn't going to go mining.
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
457
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Posted - 2013.07.12 16:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
A fair amount of newer players mine initially, though probably not all that much in terms of volume.
Just saying, don't assume there will be enough of a price spike in trit for Veld to be more worthwhile to mine that Scordite just as a result of Northern Hemisphere summer. |
Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
177
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Posted - 2013.07.12 17:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
if you're a solo player, better off running lvl 4 missions. if you are in a group constantly, mine everything in site and move on to the next. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
346
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Its only produces tritanium which is the cheapest ore so you can't get much for it so your ISK an hour is low. For this reason I avoid it and go for the more expensive ores.
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like.
Mining is done according to cubic meters (m3) of ore, so look at the value of ore in terms per m3, not per unit.
I can't be arsed to check current prices, but while it may very well be the case that the present price per unit of Veldspar is much lower than the present per-unit price of Scordite, the fact is that the price difference per volume is much smaller. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
734
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Its only produces tritanium which is the cheapest ore so you can't get much for it so your ISK an hour is low. For this reason I avoid it and go for the more expensive ores.
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like. Mining is done according to cubic meters (m3) of ore, so look at the value of ore in terms per m3, not per unit. I can't be arsed to check current prices, but while it may very well be the case that the present price per unit of Veldspar is much lower than the present per-unit price of Scordite, the fact is that the price difference per volume is much smaller. ^^ this is what so many miners fail to grasp.
This is why Omber price per m3 was so low for so long and still got mined.
It is true that Veldspar and thus tritanium are very low isk per unit. but they are also the smallest m3 per unit.
currently according to cerlestes.de the least valuable ore is omber at 152 isk per m3, veldspar is at 154 and scordite at 193 being the top high sec ore.
Omber is generally the highest isk per unit of any high sec ore, however it is also the biggest m3 per unit. Mining pulls in ore at a specified m3/cycle. What this means to you miners out there, is isk per unit means nothing, it is isk per m3 that you need to pay attention too.
Currently omber is the highest isk per unit high sec ore, but it is the lowest isk per m3. veldspar is more valuable per m3 than omber and plagioclase. Scordite is still the most valuable high sec ore per m3, has been for some time, but with the ore composition changes we have seen the ore values shift back to a ratio closer to where they should be. As I said scordite is the most valuable high sec ore right now, but it is no longer near the top of the charts, in fact the only null sec ores it beats out are spodumain and Gneiss which used to be the bottom two ores for the whole game, now beating out all high sec ores ecept scordite and pyroxeres.
Low sec ores are three of the top 4 ores currently. H & H taking the top two spots followed by arknor and then jaspet.
In my opinion the current order were see in the values of ores is exactly where it should be. The prices may go up and down, but right now the mix is perfect to keep the value of ores in relation to the risk of obtaining them, aside from the fact that low sec ores appear in high sec ore exploration sites. but the volumes in those sites is to small to really have an impact. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1389
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
Money. Manufacturing. Volume of Trit. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Felicity Love
Interstellar Booty Hunters
748
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Posted - 2013.07.15 01:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I'm wondering if there is any point to mining Veldspar?
The only reason I can see is that you needed a load of tritanium in a hurry for ship building and the like.
This is one of the biggest reasons, but if you want to step up your productivity a few notches then go out and mine the ore(s) that will get you better ISK/hour, get it refined, sell what you don't need (for any given manufacturing projects) and buy your Trit.
You might find this advantageous, you might not. Depends on the scale of your mining efforts.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
joffre lannister
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2013.07.15 01:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I always thought that veldspar produced the highest isk per m3 due to its massive volumes over the other low grade ore. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1701
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Posted - 2013.07.15 01:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
joffre lannister wrote:I always thought that veldspar produced the highest isk per m3 due to its massive volumes over the other low grade ore.
Then you've always thought wrong.
Veld used to be an ok ore to mine. But it was never the best. Pyro, for example, always beat it.
It's always worth consulting a calculator to check. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
37
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, it's worth mining Veldspar. It's worth mining everything, actually.
I mine a specific belt and I don't stop until there is nothing left on the overview. Apparently there are still some miners out there who believe in the myth that you can "groom" an asteroid belt by only mining certain rocks. I feel even sorrier for the ones who have a stopwatch and spreadsheet out for every rock trying to take it down to it's last few units. Why not just pop the rock?
It's much more profitable and less time consuming to just wipe out the entire belt. Anything other than that, you are wasting your time. I always have a laugh at those who enter the belt, and sloooooooowly make their way across the belt just to mine the only Massive Scordite rock in the entire belt. Then, once they've mined that rock, they warp out, more than likely to another belt just to scrounge for another single Massive Scordite rock. Pathetic. |
MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild Solitude Coalition
17
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
QuakeGod wrote:Yes, it's worth mining Veldspar. It's worth mining everything, actually.
I mine a specific belt and I don't stop until there is nothing left on the overview. Apparently there are still some miners out there who believe in the myth that you can "groom" an asteroid belt by only mining certain rocks. I feel even sorrier for the ones who have a stopwatch and spreadsheet out for every rock trying to take it down to it's last few units. Why not just pop the rock?
It's much more profitable and less time consuming to just wipe out the entire belt. Anything other than that, you are wasting your time. I always have a laugh at those who enter the belt, and sloooooooowly make their way across the belt just to mine the only Massive Scordite rock in the entire belt. Then, once they've mined that rock, they warp out, more than likely to another belt just to scrounge for another single Massive Scordite rock. Pathetic. I find this funny. "I mine a specific belt and I don't stop until there is nothing left on the overview. " Followed by: "Apparently there are still some miners out there who believe in the myth that you can "groom" an asteroid belt by only mining certain rocks."
No wonder you think it is a myth.
"I feel even sorrier for the ones who have a stopwatch and spreadsheet out for every rock trying to take it down to it's last few units. Why not just pop the rock?" Because wasted cycles add up.
"It's much more profitable and less time consuming to just wipe out the entire belt." No it isn't. You waste a lot of time moving to a new belt if you mine out the belts every day. You need to let them rest in order to make make the most of it. |
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QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
37
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
MicDeath Titan wrote:
No wonder you think it is a myth.
Because wasted cycles add up.
You waste a lot of time moving to a new belt if you mine out the belts every day. You need to let them rest in order to make make the most of it.
I don't think it's a myth, I know it's a myth. The devs have stated that on this forum before. Yes, it's true that if you let the belt sit without mining it for a few days, the rocks will grow to the largest size allowed for that system. However, you can't "groom" a belt to make it have more Omber rocks than Veldspar rocks. Doesn't work that way.
The devs have stated there is a method to the distribution of asteroid types, and that "grooming" the belt isn't it.
Wasted cycles. Well, for one, if you've been mining in the same system long enough, and you know the barge you mine in every day like the back of your hand, you know when to cut off the strip miner. Two, if you are that anal about wasted cycles and isk/hour, then EVE is no longer a game to you, it's a job, a task, a chore.
Play the game for more than 5 months and you'll figure things like this out...... |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
735
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Posted - 2013.07.15 03:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
QuakeGod wrote:MicDeath Titan wrote:
No wonder you think it is a myth.
Because wasted cycles add up.
You waste a lot of time moving to a new belt if you mine out the belts every day. You need to let them rest in order to make make the most of it.
I don't think it's a myth, I know it's a myth. The devs have stated that on this forum before. Yes, it's true that if you let the belt sit without mining it for a few days, the rocks will grow to the largest size allowed for that system. However, you can't "groom" a belt to make it have more Omber rocks than Veldspar rocks. Doesn't work that way. The devs have stated there is a method to the distribution of asteroid types, and that "grooming" the belt isn't it. Wasted cycles. Well, for one, if you've been mining in the same system long enough, and you know the barge you mine in every day like the back of your hand, you know when to cut off the strip miner. Two, if you are that anal about wasted cycles and isk/hour, then EVE is no longer a game to you, it's a job, a task, a chore. Play the game for more than 5 months and you'll figure things like this out...... LOL, you are correct sir. If you actually keep track, when a belt respawns it will have the exact same number of rocks of the exact same types after a respawn as it had before. Regardless of whether it has been completely mined out or not. The myth was that by only popping the worthless rocks they could respawn as better rocks. this is not true. However the other supposed myth is that if you do not pop the rocks but leave them with a cycle or less left in them, when the belt respawns the rocks will increase in size. after several weeks of doing this you will have the rocks spawning at the maximum size allowed for that belt. if you pop a rock it will respawn at the minimum size and again require time to grow.
The problem with this is it takes a lot of time and patience to groom a belt in this way, and there is nothing stopping some other miner from coming along and taking that last little bit of the rocks. When that happens all your work is for nothing. but even miners that groom belts will mine everything, including the veldspar. the difference in price is not enough to make it worthwhile to skip them over, especially in a groomed belt where the veldspar rocks are huge.
However believe what the op is asking is about cherry picking. rather than mining one or two belts fully, either empty or to a groomed state, there are those that will go out and pull all the pyroxeres and scordite out of 10 different belts. sure the isk/m3 they are left with at the end will be higher, but the time lost moving between so many belts combined with the partial cycles due to the more valuable rocks being much smaller leaves you with a much lower total m3 of ore mined. the difference in isk per hour made from cherry picking compared to strip mining is insignificant. But I know many will just continue on doing it, but that effectively allows smarter miners to groom the lower end ores in those same belts.
Is veldspar worth mining? Hell yes, just ask the most famous experienced miner in the EVE universe, Chribba, he mines veldspar, and has built an empire on it. |
MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild Solitude Coalition
17
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Posted - 2013.07.15 04:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
QuakeGod wrote:MicDeath Titan wrote:
No wonder you think it is a myth.
Because wasted cycles add up.
You waste a lot of time moving to a new belt if you mine out the belts every day. You need to let them rest in order to make make the most of it.
I don't think it's a myth, I know it's a myth. The devs have stated that on this forum before. Yes, it's true that if you let the belt sit without mining it for a few days, the rocks will grow to the largest size allowed for that system. However, you can't "groom" a belt to make it have more Omber rocks than Veldspar rocks. Doesn't work that way. The devs have stated there is a method to the distribution of asteroid types, and that "grooming" the belt isn't it. Wasted cycles. Well, for one, if you've been mining in the same system long enough, and you know the barge you mine in every day like the back of your hand, you know when to cut off the strip miner. Two, if you are that anal about wasted cycles and isk/hour, then EVE is no longer a game to you, it's a job, a task, a chore. Play the game for more than 5 months and you'll figure things like this out...... That goes against what I have seen, and what has happened. The current belts I have groomed grew in size. from 12 roids of azure plag to 22-25. Moving the normal plag to azure from many many days of work. Is it easy? No. It is randomly distributed. The more belts the system has, the harder it to force a spawn of the roid type. Even then I doubt anybody could get a system full of any one type of ore.
I assume the dev remark is based off something from like this, http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Farming_asteroids
From my scans, recordings, and work I have concluded that each system as a max m3 for roids, that is NOT the sum of the belts max m3. After each downtime, there is a random amount of m3 that gets randomly distributed across the system. If that random distribution lands on a roid that is already active, that m3 gets added to it. if it doesn't land on an active roid it spawns a new roid. So far my scans have shown that this new roid is also random.
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QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
37
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Posted - 2013.07.15 04:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Exactly. It's random. No amount of "grooming" is going to give you a belt of only the types of asteroids that you want. Do you know why? Because some guy like me is going to come along and pop every single asteroid in that belt, therefore negating any attempt at "grooming" that you were working toward.
The only way this would even be remotely feasible is in null-sec with sovereignty where you can control access to the belts to an extent, and even then it would take a very, very long time and a lot of luck with the random ore spawns. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8872
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Is veldspar worth mining? Hell yes, just ask the most famous experienced miner in the EVE universe, Chribba, he mines veldspar, and has built an empire on it. All a lie, there's no profit in it, you should just leave it all to me
/c
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