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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
61
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
(please refrain from "i remember when this goddam game was alive kid". Actually do if you want)
I heard that missions were introduced in an update and were not part of the original EVE game. Before this you had to belt rat or mine (in a goddam carpal tunnel battleship) or do other things i have not thought of if you wanted to make isk in highsec.
It was a time when Battleships could cost 180 million isk and buying a Battleship BPO required a consortium of people to do it instead of today where everyone and their mother has one.
I heard a story about a 300 million isk scam that nearly wiped out a dozen people when today an elite missioner could make that in a day
Is all of this true?
Next questions
1. In your opinion did level 4 missions remove the need for people do leave highsec to make isk
2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh)
3. CCP was there a rise in the playerbase when level 4 missions were introduced.
I was going to list the isk per hour ratio of elite pvper vs everthing else in the game but then there would be much faggotry in the angry replies in this thread
Next section (needs vets opinions on this one)
Do you think that SOV and level 4s have combined to keep a lot of people in highsec.
Ie If there was no real earnings to be made in highsec and i heard of the mythical nullsec where you could find BS with over a million bounties on them then i would be planning to get out there for a long extended trip to up my wallet. But now that most of Nullsec is claimed and nothing is unknown its not worth going.
Also and this is huge, massive i mean really really big. Nullsec is unknown. there should be no data coming out of there that players are not providing for themselves. If i wanted to go to a region and carebear for a while then people should have to come in and find me doing it. not look ingame at the stats page and work it out from there or look at dotlan. This part of the game makes absolutely no sense, none.
If i went to Alpha Centuri to play god the only time Earthlings should know about it is four years later when the star went Nova or when i return to Earth with my army of robot monkeys. NASA should not be able to look on dotlan to see exactly what i am doing. The only way they should know is when they send a ragtag group of 80s action heroes up there to find out what i am doing.
Your thoughts please and a big hello to all the trolls. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
190
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:(please refrain from "i remember when this goddam game was alive kid". Actually do if you want) I heard that missions were introduced in an update and were not part of the original EVE game. Before this you had to belt rat or mine (in a goddam carpal tunnel battleship) or do other things i have not thought of if you wanted to make isk in highsec.
It was a time when Battleships could cost 180 million isk and buying a Battleship BPO required a consortium of people to do it instead of today where everyone and their mother has one.
I heard a story about a 300 million isk scam that nearly wiped out a dozen people when today an elite missioner could make that in a day
1. No, but I mined for Omber for my first Omen, or something.
2. Battleships where the best ships in the game at the beginning, battleships fleets where the summum of militairy hardware, I don't remember what my first Armageddon cost, but I was very proud when I obtained it (I lost it 1 day later).
3. Dunno, could be, scams where there the minute eve launched so yeah prolly. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Killgor
The Collective White Noise.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
yes, missions were introduced later. I remember when the biggest rat was the Juggernaut ( for sansha) in deep southern stain and isk bounty was 50,000. It was the highest bounty ship minus officer/faction spawns. And they used to be a pain in da arse to kill. I also remember mining in thoraxs and vexors. I also remember to get into stain you had to pass through a heavily gate camped DSS and you better have a pass. |
kratos candre
Southern Pride
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
* For missions * I remember when Lvl 4's use to be hard to do. Like angel or gruista extav. where damn near impossible to do solo. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
126
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
I wasn't actually around, so I can only base this off of what I have heard.
1) Battleship BPOs DID require a consortium of people to purchase, instead of being purchased by individual players. I remember soon after I joined the game even that there was a scam where someone swindled investors by claiming that they would be purchasing build rights to a Battleship BPO.
2) Remember: Level 4 missions were not always easy. Virtually every level 4 mission had multiple warp scrambling rats in them, and IIRC, the rats did roughly twice as much damage (But had twice the bounties). Level 3 missions were ALSO way harder. The progression was essentially: Level 1: Frigates Level 2: Cruisers Level 3: Battleships Level 4: Multiple Battleships (or a VERY experienced battleship pilot).
The advice that was given to new players was that they should wait around SIX MONTHS before getting into a Battleship to run level 4 missions.
3) Missions did not remove the need to go to low sec. Low sec was the only place to reliably acquire mid-level minerals, such as Nocxium and Isogen. IMO, it was the drone regions and player built outposts which "killed" low sec. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
231
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
kratos candre wrote:* For missions * I remember when Lvl 4's use to be hard to do. Like angel or gruista extav. where damn near impossible to do solo.
But then people managed to document every behaviour and make guides for every single missions.
Angel Extravaganza IS impossible to do solo if you don't know what the hell you are doing. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Happier times when there was only Frigates, Cruisers and Battleships in the game and no one was afraid of being cyno ganked! The game might as well be called Dock In Space since capitals came into play. |
kratos candre
Southern Pride
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:kratos candre wrote:* For missions * I remember when Lvl 4's use to be hard to do. Like angel or gruista extav. where damn near impossible to do solo. But then people managed to document every behaviour and make guides for every single missions. Angel Extravaganza IS impossible to do solo if you don't know what the hell you are doing.
but newbs cried "we should have access and burn thur LVL 4's in a 2month old toon." so CCP dumbed it down for more subs. |
kratos candre
Southern Pride
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
0wl wrote:Happier times when there was only Frigates, Cruisers and Battleships in the game and no one was afraid of being cyno ganked! The game might as well be called Dock In Space since capitals came into play.
Was great time before captials. But i know a lot of ppl would rather just have carriers and dreads than super caps.
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Xoria Krint
The Movement
19
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote: 1. In your opinion did level 4 missions remove the need for people do leave highsec to make isk
Yes. Eve should be Risk vs Reward. Level IV missions in high-sec does not have enough risk but a nice reward. It makes no sense and all level IV agents should be moved to lowsec/0.0.
Karn Dulake wrote: 2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh)
Except that you can't mine Bistot in high-sec.
Oh.. While i'm at it: Remove local as well, at least in low-sec/0.0.
The carebears have reformed Eve-Online to the worse in many years now. Slowly but steady it is being dumbed down by all the whining and crying. You can quote me on that. All the damn popups and warnings? Why? Let people learn by mistakes. Tutorial? Not needed. Local? Not needed.
Give us some new ships, new pirate methods..... Give us a damn PvP expansion and force the carebears out of high-sec. |
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Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I rememeber when T2 mods were stupendously expensive.
I remember running and hiding when a Deimos came into system.
I remember when a Brutix cost 60m, was the most effective BC and aboslutley WTFpwnd
I rememebr when there wasnt an empty lowsec system, because ratting there was worthwhile.
I remember getting paid to scout haulers down the curse pipe to paragon soul, and never losing a ship, because i had spent a month making my own warp to 0 bookmarks, and catching people at gates that didn't have them.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Killgor
The Collective White Noise.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yea, back in the day, corps collectively had to buy BPO's and for awhile it was rare to have more than one. I love this game with all the ups and downs but one of the biggest downfalls has been the devaluation of the isk. The ability to buy plex with cash and sell it in game for isk has really threw off the economics of the game. You can't call yourself a player driven economy when non ingame money can be used to get ingame money. |
Skaz
Skazmanian Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes, there were no agents or missions at launch.
I mined to get my ships, rats were also a source of ISK but the bigger ones could be nearly impossible to kill. Mining in 0.0 was possible for everyone. Space wasn't as easy to claim and enforcing said claim even harder. Ninjamining was a very fun and lucrative business.
Trading was also really profitable, still is.
I remember mining to buy my first BS and then mining in my BS while training skills to use it effectively.
Excepting missions this is what most noobs do when they start today.
What has been added on since has been to improve the PvP aspect of the game and to keep raising the ceiling so that there is always something left that you haven't tried out, that is to make sure that there isn't an endgame in EVE.
Highsec and the trade/manufacture/research that goes on there isn't simply carebearing, it's in fact necessary for the economy of EVE. There would be far lesser activity if you'd simply make all of EVE nullsec. People would leave after having been forced into losing all their **** for the millionth time and having no safety to cool off in and rebuild.
What the problem is that you can't force nullsec on highsec dwellers without losing subs and you really can't change nullsec all that much to make it enticing enough to carebears without compromising the total lawlessness that most player love about it.
The solution is obviously some sort of a middle ground. Lowsec is pretty much useless today. It serves no real purpose or brings EVE any real benefit other than destroying stuff in the name of economic stability. Reworking that into something different might be a solution, how I don't know, but it's the one area that I see some measurable degree of improvement possible. |
Barakkus
959
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Trust me, at this point level 4 missions are the bottom of the barrel in terms of income generators. |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
These answers really make it seem like CCP overplayered their hand and removed the frontier feel about this game.
(Only Opinion)
Personally if you wanted to remove level 4 missions then you have to revamp nullsec and get rid of the whole amount of free data you can recieve to allow people to go there any not be spotted by dotlan/eve mechanics |
Xoria Krint
The Movement
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Killgor wrote:Yea, back in the day, corps collectively had to buy BPO's and for awhile it was rare to have more than one. I love this game with all the ups and downs but one of the biggest downfalls has been the devaluation of the isk. The ability to buy plex with cash and sell it in game for isk has really threw off the economics of the game. You can't call yourself a player driven economy when non ingame money can be used to get ingame money. I agree. The devaluation of ISK has destroyed much of Eve Online. |
Mirime Nolwe
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, there we go again with Level 4 nerf threads. In fact, this was a bit forgotten for quite some time now.
If i remember correctly, some time ago (before incarage) CCP said they intended to remove lvl 4 from High Sec, might be wrong.. |
Mirime Nolwe
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Killgor wrote:Yea, back in the day, corps collectively had to buy BPO's and for awhile it was rare to have more than one. I love this game with all the ups and downs but one of the biggest downfalls has been the devaluation of the isk. The ability to buy plex with cash and sell it in game for isk has really threw off the economics of the game. You can't call yourself a player driven economy when non ingame money can be used to get ingame money.
Sorry about the double post but this deserve to be quoted over and over again. Especially the bold part.
|
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
I miss selling bookmark sets on escrow for insane amounts of isk... Made far more than mission running. ;) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
752
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Killgor wrote:Yea, back in the day, corps collectively had to buy BPO's and for awhile it was rare to have more than one. I love this game with all the ups and downs but one of the biggest downfalls has been the devaluation of the isk. The ability to buy plex with cash and sell it in game for isk has really threw off the economics of the game. You can't call yourself a player driven economy when non ingame money can be used to get ingame money.
You can when the money comes from another player. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mirime Nolwe wrote:Well, there we go again with Level 4 nerf threads. In fact, this was a bit forgotten for quite some time now.
If i remember correctly, some time ago (before incarage) CCP said they intended to remove lvl 4 from High Sec, might be wrong..
This has got nothing to do with nerfing level 4 missions in highsec. I have grown insanely fat and rich from level 4 missions so i am not talking about nerfing them.
Im talking about the feel for the game and the differences in times gone by |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
679
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 15:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:(please refrain from "i remember when this goddam game was alive kid". Actually do if you want) I heard that missions were introduced in an update and were not part of the original EVE game. Before this you had to belt rat or mine (in a goddam carpal tunnel battleship) or do other things i have not thought of if you wanted to make isk in highsec.
It was a time when Battleships could cost 180 million isk and buying a Battleship BPO required a consortium of people to do it instead of today where everyone and their mother has one.
True and people used to buy battleship bpos and recoup the investment selling copies. One of the first targets I made war on in Eve (taggart transdimensional) was effectively an apocalypse pyramid selling scheme.
Quote:I heard a story about a 300 million isk scam that nearly wiped out a dozen people when today an elite missioner could make that in a day
Well one of my first directors in JF almost wiped out our trading budget by accidently sending 25m isk to an eve dominatrix from the "pain syndicate"...
Quote:Next questions
1. In your opinion did level 4 missions remove the need for people do leave highsec to make isk
2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh)
3. CCP was there a rise in the playerbase when level 4 missions were introduced.
1. Yes I think so. 2. Pretty much mining with lasers 3. There was a steady rise throughout that period for a lot of reasons - just look at the patchnotes for something like Exodus and you will see huge improvements across the entire game. Hence its difficult to lay increases against specific features.
I was going to list the isk per hour ratio of elite pvper vs everthing else in the game but then there would be much faggotry in the angry replies in this thread
Quote: Next section (needs vets opinions on this one) Do you think that SOV and level 4s have combined to keep a lot of people in highsec.
Ie If there was no real earnings to be made in highsec and i heard of the mythical nullsec where you could find BS with over a million bounties on them then i would be planning to get out there for a long extended trip to up my wallet. But now that most of Nullsec is claimed and nothing is unknown its not worth going.
Sov has been pretty terrible and has been used and abused by 0.0 powers since introduction. I've long believed it makes the game too easy for large powers to act as absentee landlords.
Quote:Also and this is huge, massive i mean really really big. Nullsec is unknown. there should be no data coming out of there that players are not providing for themselves. If i wanted to go to a region and carebear for a while then people should have to come in and find me doing it. not look ingame at the stats page and work it out from there or look at dotlan. This part of the game makes absolutely no sense, none.
Yep - the sensible proposal is no local chat in 0.0 and far more limited map statistics. There has always been a problem in 0.0 with perfect intel information that you don't have to work for.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 15:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh) Less complicated in principle. If you simply warp in, kill rats then turn in the mission you get the ISK delivered straight to your wallet whereas even in the most basic form of mining you have to deal with the market to get paid. Of course in missions you have Blitzing, the question of whether it's profitable to salvage...etc. but then in Mining it's which ores to mine, whether your skills make it better to refine or sell the raw ore and so forth.
Renan Ruivo wrote:kratos candre wrote:* For missions * I remember when Lvl 4's use to be hard to do. Like angel or gruista extav. where damn near impossible to do solo. But then people managed to document every behaviour and make guides for every single missions. Angel Extravaganza IS impossible to do solo if you don't know what the hell you are doing. The difference is that Angel Extra is now a multi-spawn mission, it used to have the same rats (more or less) but all of them were spawned in immediately in groups... and in the first room all of those groups were (at one point) insta-agro. The damage that room could cause was intense - more than the current bonus room if for no other reason than everything was close enough to do full (or nearly full) damage immediately.
A corp I used to work quite closely with used to warp a T2, full tank Domi in to get agro and his job was to kill the Vipers and Webifiers (all of them scramed then). As soon as he had agro from everything he needed to call in support (which was originally a 6 shield transfer Scorp) because otherwise he'd pop before he could kill all the tacklers... Angel Extra used to be a lot harder than it is now. |
yumike
Eve of Madness
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 15:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:
1. In your opinion did level 4 missions remove the need for people do leave highsec to make isk
2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh)
3. CCP was there a rise in the playerbase when level 4 missions were introduced.
1.) There was no missions, Then there was level 1-3, then 4's were added, then fives were added. I recall when 3's were the king of the crop, and they added fours while I was away (Fried my computer{Was my first time overclocking}) and I was out for several months before returning.
2.) The ease of fours to this day are still differing. There's many people who still need help to complete them, yes to me they are little more then different substances to mine and I use varying ammo types but for what I imagine to be the vast majority of the playerbase there is a great difference - so no.
3.) Because of level 4 missions? I doubt it. But EVE has been steadily growing since it's incarnation, I still recall 4k people being online and going "damn, whys everyone on for. Oh its the weekend dur" So of course EVE has grown, And maybe not necessarily because of level 4's specifically but possibly for the doors that level 4s have opened (A larger variety of ships, choices, challenge & reason to fleet up at times.) |
Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 15:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:
Also and this is huge, massive i mean really really big. Nullsec is unknown. there should be no data coming out of there that players are not providing for themselves. If i wanted to go to a region and carebear for a while then people should have to come in and find me doing it. not look ingame at the stats page and work it out from there or look at dotlan. This part of the game makes absolutely no sense, none.
If i went to Alpha Centuri to play god the only time Earthlings should know about it is four years later when the star went Nova or when i return to Earth with my army of robot monkeys. NASA should not be able to look on dotlan to see exactly what i am doing. The only way they should know is when they send a ragtag group of 80s action heroes up there to find out what i am doing.
They have long chains of ponies that fly the information back and forth...duh.
Would you like a kitten? |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xoria Krint wrote:
Give us some new ships, new pirate methods..... Give us a damn PvP expansion and force the carebears out of high-sec.
all that would do is force carebears out of eve online completely.... less subs = less staff = less eve online development.
pirates have more than enough ways to kill other player.... that fact you are whining about not getting easier kills suggest piracy may not be the career for you. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
45
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xoria Krint wrote:Karn Dulake wrote: 1. In your opinion did level 4 missions remove the need for people do leave highsec to make isk
Yes. Eve should be Risk vs Reward. Level IV missions in high-sec does not have enough risk but a nice reward. It makes no sense and all level IV agents should be moved to lowsec/0.0. Karn Dulake wrote: 2. Due to the easy nature of level 4 missions are they just a more complicated form of mining (think about it people, eh eh)
Except that you can't mine Bistot in high-sec. Oh.. While i'm at it: Remove local as well, at least in low-sec/0.0. The carebears have reformed Eve-Online to the worse in many years now. Slowly but steady it is being dumbed down by all the whining and crying. You can quote me on that. All the damn popups and warnings? Why? Let people learn by mistakes. Tutorial? Not needed. Local? Not needed. Give us some new ships, new pirate methods..... Give us a damn PvP expansion and force the carebears out of high-sec.
They will just quit. I don't get the mentality behind, "play like I do!"
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
408
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Killgor wrote:Yea, back in the day, corps collectively had to buy BPO's and for awhile it was rare to have more than one. I love this game with all the ups and downs but one of the biggest downfalls has been the devaluation of the isk. The ability to buy plex with cash and sell it in game for isk has really threw off the economics of the game. You can't call yourself a player driven economy when non ingame money can be used to get ingame money. You can when the money comes from another player.
Player?
Is that what we call someone who's entire participation in the game is logging in 30 bots once a day?
Mr Epeen
If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet. |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
62
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Please keep on track people this has been a great thread so far.
its not a bashing thread |
Dinatra
Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
You can pretty much look at the oldest records on the old forums to get a picture of what was going on: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=3519&page=5188
There are some posts there where people are looking for investors in Battleship BPOs :) |
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