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Enochx Kaine
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
12
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am 0-3 thus far. That's okay. obviously I am doing something wrong, but WHAT am I doing wrong...that is the question I pose unto thee.
So here is the thing....I have only been killing NPCs in missions. And WHILE doing that I discovered that long range weapons were the way to go...ergo...I tend to lean towards long range weapons. And I only really want to fly Caldari and Caldari boats tend to lean towards missles.
So how am I supposed to use long range weapons in pvp, specifically FW pvp? All of my losses so far (except for the getting got at the gate camp) have occured while I was attempting an offensive novice plex. Here is how they basically went down. I usually start out killing the NPC. Depending on whether I am using missles or rails, I orbit around teh NPC at optimal range. When he is dead I scan and wait. I usually orbit 30K away from teh beacon thing because that is where the enemy will come in right? So I want to be AWAY from that because they will more than likely have short range weapons.
When they arrive, I automatically hit orbit for optimal range. I think this is where I get in trouble because everytime it seems they close the distance SUPER freaking fast. like before I even know what is going on. Then they tackle me with warp disruptors and statsis and by then I am a sitting duck. All I can do is fire and pray...I can't get away and my guns can't track as well that close.
So.....what am I doing wrong here? I think what I need to do is as soon as an enemy player arrives, I should target him and hit "keep at distance" instead of orbit. that SHOULD get me out of his range before he can do anything right? And then depending on if he has a microdrive or not he shouldn't be able to catch up.....right? Should I just abandon long range weapons when I am plexing or pvp'ing in general? Can I be a successful brawler with rockets? Is there any hope for your buddy Enockx Kaine?
ANy advice or links to places with tactics or anything to help me learn faster would be greatly appreciated. |
Enochx Kaine
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
12
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
and another thing....they seem to always know when I am offensive plexing. How do they know this? And how can I know if someone is trying to take one of our plexes? is there some sort of notice or somethign I don't have clicked on or what? |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
31
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting you ship's fitting helps.
Do you have a micro warp drive? Do you use it? What ship are you trying to kite with?
There is no way to know if someone is plexing. You just know when a WT is in system for a couple of minutes. He is in a plex. |
Praxis Ginimic
Dark Knight Legion The Hydra Confederacy
387
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kiting requires a mwd. You will need to strategically pulse it to keep range. If they have a faster ship then you're just out of luck. Try using a tracking disruptor with a range script.
They are finding you in the plex with d-scan. You can use D on short range to see if someone is on the acceleration gate. If you can't take the ship on scan then either bug out before it lands or call for help.
You can brawl with rockets. You can also brawl with blasters.
Edited for stupid smart phone |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
474
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
You must be in a different tz to your other guys.
Try and talk to Smook or Sean. JuricM, MostNoobs and Sol (+ a few more) should also be able to help with a some pvp fits/tactics.
Jump in your Alliances/Corps public channel and you will find me there and I can help. Your/Our TS3 usually has a few people in it.
Even in the quiet times you should have a few Alliance members on who can help. Come on one of the small roams we do near dt on many weeknights.
You will have to put up with me is the only drawback.
You should be living in Enaluri as well - that way people can help you.
If you still live in High sec we can't help as efficiently.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Enochx Kaine
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
12
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Posted - 2013.07.15 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:You must be in a different tz to your other guys. Try and talk to Smook or Sean. JuricM, MostNoobs and Sol (+ a few more) should also be able to help with a some pvp fits/tactics. Jump in your Alliances/Corps public channel and you will find me there and I can help. Your/Our TS3 usually has a few people in it. Even in the quiet times you should have a few Alliance members on who can help. Come on one of the small roams we do near dt on many weeknights. You will have to put up with me is the only drawback. You should be living in Enaluri as well - that way people can help you. If you still live in High sec we can't help as efficiently.
No they help a lot. I just joined the corp. yesterday I think? Maybe the day before. They are going to give me some pointers and such and they have already helped me out with some builds....I just wanted to post here as well. I want as much information as I can get.
i mean yesterday I had a merlin with rails and got beat by a heron. That shouldn't happen. I will figure it out, I just want as much info as possible so I can figure it out sooner.
I got all my stuff at ichwhatever V. I should be close to everyone right? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1485
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Only three fights? That's what you're doing wrong. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1851
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
its sometimes hard to figure out what went wrong or if you would have had a chance if you would fly different etc. Looking at the log can help but the best what you can do to learn from your mistakes is to record the fight and watch it again afterwards. (I am using OGB and stream the fights to my disc for example) eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos
27
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Only 2 of your losses are showing up on eve-kill, so I can't talk about the merlin that you lost.
Your Cormorant Loss - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18509179
Things you did wrong: 1) You did not have a MWD. Using and AB instead does not give you the speed you need to kite in PVP 2) You dual tanked your ship! Never ever dual tank! 3) You did not have a point mod on your ship, so even if you somehow were winning, they would just run away 4) You tried to kite with anti-matter ammo. Only the harpy can pull that off. 5) You did not use faction ammunition. Never use regular ammo in PVP, faction ammo is better and can be used with the same skills. Use Caldari Navy anti-matter.
Your Corax Loss - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18509177 1) You have no propulsion mod on this ship - nothing to make you move quickly, makes it impossible to even try to kite 2) You have no point on the ship again 3) You have not used all the fitting slots on the ship 4) You have not used faction ammo again
From the looks of it, you are really struggling with ship fitting. You should train your Engineering skills to level 4, then your weapon upgrades skill to 5, then advanced weapon upgrades to 4, then engineering to 5.
Without these fitting skills, you are relying too much on fitting mods and rigs to arm your ship, and are losing out on the ability to put damage or tanking modules in instead.
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Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Only three fights? That's what you're doing wrong.
This, lost 11 on my main and 14 on an alt before finally getting a kill. Learn from each loss and the kills will come. |
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
431
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your fits are ****, so I assume you tactics are as well.
Go join RvB and learn basic mechanics then give it another go. You won't get anywhere until you learn the basics. http://thewaysofthemew.blogspot.com We are recruiting - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1823364&#post1823364 |
Sentry-The Defiant
Pipe Hitters Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.15 19:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am having fair luck with. A 2 day old char in a kite condor. The way I fit it is 3 llight missile launchers. A mwd 2x tracking disruptors and a long point. A ballistic control and nano fiber in the lows. I have killed 2 sniping destroyers with that fit and could prob handle close range ones. Cap is an issue so you need to learn to pulse the mwd. And speed is your tank. |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
518
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Posted - 2013.07.15 20:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:You must be in a different tz to your other guys. Try and talk to Smook or Sean. JuricM, MostNoobs and Sol (+ a few more) should also be able to help with a some pvp fits/tactics. Jump in your Alliances/Corps public channel and you will find me there and I can help. Your/Our TS3 usually has a few people in it. Even in the quiet times you should have a few Alliance members on who can help. Come on one of the small roams we do near dt on many weeknights. You will have to put up with me is the only drawback.You should be living in Enaluri as well - that way people can help you. If you still live in High sec we can't help as efficiently.
Not the only drawback, one of the biggest mind you, the other is following me in a suicide run against overwhelming odds! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Enochx Kaine
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
12
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Posted - 2013.07.15 21:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:Only 2 of your losses are showing up on eve-kill, so I can't talk about the merlin that you lost. Your Cormorant Loss - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18509179Things you did wrong: 1) You did not have a MWD. Using and AB instead does not give you the speed you need to kite in PVP 2) You dual tanked your ship! Never ever dual tank! 3) You did not have a point mod on your ship, so even if you somehow were winning, they would just run away 4) You tried to kite with anti-matter ammo. Only the harpy can pull that off. 5) You did not use faction ammunition. Never use regular ammo in PVP, faction ammo is better and can be used with the same skills. Use Caldari Navy anti-matter. Your Corax Loss - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=185091771) You have no propulsion mod on this ship - nothing to make you move quickly, makes it impossible to even try to kite 2) You have no point on the ship again 3) You have not used all the fitting slots on the ship 4) You have not used faction ammo again From the looks of it, you are really struggling with ship fitting. You should train your Engineering skills to level 4, then your weapon upgrades skill to 5, then advanced weapon upgrades to 4, then engineering to 5. Without these fitting skills, you are relying too much on fitting mods and rigs to arm your ship, and are losing out on the ability to put damage or tanking modules in instead.
Those are really old. I actually forgot about those. That guy who killed those two ships has been ranked number one on battleclinic killboards for weeks now. I never had a chance against him. I think I was still doing the sisters of eve quests when that guy killed me. I ALMOST had him once, but he was probably just playing with me like a cat with a half dead mouse. I shall have my revenge......next year.
wonder why my fights from the past couple of days aren't showing up. I think I need to use MWD instead of Afterburner from what I am reading here.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1113
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Posted - 2013.07.15 21:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:Your Corax Loss - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=185091771) You have no propulsion mod on this ship - nothing to make you move quickly, makes it impossible to even try to kite 2) You have no point on the ship again 3) You have not used all the fitting slots on the ship 4) You have not used faction ammo again
You got killed by Rakkanar, he is 1. on Battleclinic
And seeing how Battleclinic rankings are pure distilled pvp skill, I'm pretty sure that makes him a PVP god.
yup yup. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Andracin
Sickology
154
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 02:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
You got killed by Rakkanar, he is 1. on station camping Lisbatane
And seeing how he never leaves the station for anything other than shiny kill whoring, I'm pretty sure that makes him a PVP god.
yup yup. |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
519
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
You should come out with us on our pre DT roams and we'll show you how to get killed by any general gal scrub That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
arktyus
Turalyon Plus
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your fits are going to be crap with low skills, so is your damage. This is what I've noticed , but the losses will help you get comfortable with PVP. Also I find I die to pirates that camp the plex. They are really good at PVP and have much better skills and fits. Just get the experience. Also I always ask them after the fight what I could have done better. They usually say I did really good, but they have a better fit or a counter to my ship.
Groups might work much better, if you want the kills. Solo for me seems hard with my sp and cheap fits |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
475
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Your fits are ****, so I assume you tactics are as well.
Go join RvB and learn basic mechanics then give it another go. You won't get anywhere until you learn the basics.
We will help him.
No need for RvB. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
521
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 04:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Your fits are ****, so I assume you tactics are as well.
Go join RvB and learn basic mechanics then give it another go. You won't get anywhere until you learn the basics. We will help him.No need for RvB.
Oh ****!
He's buggered now then! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Andracin
Sickology
157
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
arktyus wrote:Your fits are going to be crap with low skills, so is your damage. This is what I've noticed , but the losses will help you get comfortable with PVP. Also I find I die to pirates that camp the plex. They are really good at PVP and have much better skills and fits. Just get the experience. Also I always ask them after the fight what I could have done better. They usually say I did really good, but they have a better fit or a counter to my ship.
Groups might work much better, if you want the kills. Solo for me seems hard with my sp and cheap fits
first of all hi arktyus! Havn't blown you up in a couple days or so
As a pirate in a faction war zone you don't really have to camp the plexes so much as troll through them as you roam around. In systems where nearly everyone is prey err I mean FW pilot, it makes sense to hunt the plexes cause that is where you find targets, willing or otherwise. Ive had some damn good fights in or around plexes since FW was implemented and I love a good fight win or loose.
As for SP I started my pvp life with 250K SP. Be willing to take your losses, come back and do it again...and believe it or not alot of very high SP pilots fly some very low SP ships. Minus implants that puts them on a pretty close par with the noob their fighting when you actually get down to adding up the number of skills impacting the fight...the rest comes down to understanding game mechanics and stuff that just takes time and experience to work out.
But arktyus is right...if you convo me and don't attempt to feed my inner troll with your tears and raging, you can ask me about what you did, what I did, what you could have done to avoid being blown up, how better to fit your ship, ect. I've even given some polite players the isk to buy a new ship with better fittings than they lost. You would be surprised how many low sec dwellers are not the evil griefing monsters you would think from the violencing we do of your ship. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1115
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 12:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andracin wrote:You got killed by Rakkanar, he is 1. on station camping Lisbatane
And seeing how he never leaves the station for anything other than shiny kill whoring, I'm pretty sure that makes him a PVP god.
yup yup.
Hey i saw him in Avenod once.. a while ago.. for a short while... BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Selmak Kado
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Innovia Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.07.16 14:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
You gys should teach him to cloak :D |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
247
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
You don't necessarily need a point, if you don't care for getting kill mails. Just chasing them off from 40-50k (which very few militia pilots are set up to take on by default) is an acceptable strategy if you don't mind having no KM to show for it (or if you get a buddy who can tackle for you). If you do get a point, then you'll either have to fight from a closer range (around 20k), or you'll have to close in to a closer range after beating them up a bit from long range and hope you get the point on them before they decide to run.
MWD is essential. This is how you keep range with a sniper or kiter. You don't want to be using it 24/7, most of the time, only when it looks like they'll be closing range. Also, a lot of times people will overheat their prop mod in order to burn towards you. Therefore, it is often wise to keep your MWD overheated at the start of the fight (but not on until you need it) so you can react quickly to their burn. This is situational, though, because you also don't want to speed out of range either.
You'll might want to consider DPS+Speed fits rather than tank ones, since if you're kiting/sniping your main strength is in killing the enemy before they can ever hit you and your main threat will be from people who are faster than you. Tracking disruptors can help provide long range tank with minimal investment.
Keep your guns/launchers overheated, again you want to kill the enemy before they can reach you.
Also, orbit is bad for kiting/sniping, yes, at least with turrets. Not sure if it's as bad for missiles since they don't have to worry about tracking. Keep at range works, but can be clunky as the 180 turns can wreck tracking, though again this isn't much of a problem for missile ships. However, keep at range also has the risk of having you turn to fly towards your enemy right as they decide to start burning towards you, giving you little time/ability to react. In my opinion, manual flying is much better than either orbiting or kiting, but it runs the risk of having you shoot out of your max range and so requires a lot of fine tuning.
And yep, higher skills will help a lot. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
479
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Selmak Kado wrote:You gys should teach him to cloak :D
But if we fit cloaks we wont have enough CPU for all the warp stabs. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
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