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Ladrial
The Faline Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.07.15 19:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
Im trying to find the best way to make use of five accounts to mine ice and ore in high-sec. I say its slightly different as most the posts about this kind of thing are very heavy on the mathematical yields etc.
While this is a concern of course I don't also want to be clicking buttons more than I need to as I run missions on a sixth toon. (or play another game terrible I know lol) The good news is I have six monitor set up so its never out of site (its sexy!).
I have access to Orca, Mack Hulk etc. I also plan for each toon to have two ships one for ice and one for ore, so its easy to switch. I figure 4 hulks and an orca is best, but will three hulks an orca and a charon be worthwhile? I have never used an orca despite the fact I am trained.
At the moment I have 3 Macks (well 6 three for ore and three for Ice) and I switch em around when the ice pops. This is fine with three accounts and isn't major hassle. I don't mind spending Isk to make this easier.
Of course I want to pay for the accounts by mining but don't want to not be able to use the main effectively whilst doing so. I guess its a case of efficiency V hassle.....
Would love some help I think the hulks and the orca makes sense for the ore, but is there a better ship for the ice? Also is adding a Charon worth it at this level?
Thanks In Advance Guys/Gals :) |
Cap James Tkirk
Soldiers of Farscape Synthetic Systems
108
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Posted - 2013.07.15 21:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
search and read teh billion other threads like this the answer is here just look |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
361
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Posted - 2013.07.15 23:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
You need to go home and rethink your life.
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Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
177
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Posted - 2013.07.16 00:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
1 orca, 3 miners, 1 freighter is probably best if you are going to be mining in high sec. the roids are so small that you will end up spending most of your time just dragging/dropping and switching targets if you run hulks. you will mine out belts very easily with 3. the 5th account is probably better to be set up with a charon to haul the ore so you can mine in systems without stations better. with 4 miners you will spend to much time hauling ore back and forth with just an orca. it becomes more intensive timing everything and having to drop cans while the orca is hauling. |
Lyra Jedran
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
2
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Posted - 2013.07.16 01:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Find a quiet .5 system with no station. Have Orca drop Enormous Freight container. Have 4 hulk miners drop into fleet hangar while orca transfers to Freight container. Process entire belt into Freight containers then send your freighter pilot in for pick up. Each freight container holds 250k m3 and takes 250k m3 in cargo hold so a freighter can easily pick up 3 at a time. Decently trained hulk pilots can pull in 500k m3 an hour which translates to about 80 mln. The only downside is that someone else in a freighter can scoop your can without going suspect but that's why you chose a quiet system with no one in local. Use the same system for ice mining but you can use macks instead of hulks for little more afkness. |
Ladrial
The Faline Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.07.16 07:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the replys very helpfull so far. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
21880
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Posted - 2013.07.16 11:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:...the roids are so small that you will end up spending most of your time just dragging/dropping and switching targets if you run hulks.
That depends on where, and the level of system security. I sit on Kernite for 7 or 8 cycles most of the time. |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
162
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Swap out the freighter pilot for another miner. If you're in a station system, suck up the 2 to 3 minute turnaround time and have the Orca drop the ore off periodically. In a non station system, consider putting up a small temporary POS on a nearby moon to dump your stuff at. One full miner will more than make up for the intermittent loss of bonuses. ***Prodigal Frog***
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MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild Solitude Coalition
17
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Posted - 2013.07.16 21:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:Swap out the freighter pilot for another miner. If you're in a station system, suck up the 2 to 3 minute turnaround time and have the Orca drop the ore off periodically. In a non station system, consider putting up a small temporary POS on a nearby moon to dump your stuff at. One full miner will more than make up for the intermittent loss of bonuses. If you make the freighter pilot also mine, that is much much better than having the orca hual. That 2-3 minutes of not having boosts running makes you lose more m3 than just having the freighter dock-switch-collect-dock-switch back to miner-go back to mining
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Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
40
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Posted - 2013.07.16 22:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
While I don't run multiple accounts like that, I do run group mining operations from time to time.
Three well skilled and fitted Hulks with a good boosting Orca will fill that orca in about 30 minuets. With 4 Hulks and an Orca you are looking at about 3 or so loads and hour.
I would suggest having the freighter pilot mine until the orca is full and then he can switch ships and haul the load to station. Then switch back and mine until full again.
This keeps the 5th member productive the entire time, and not just the 10 minuets or so it take to make three hauling trips an hour. |
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Zaxix
Long Jump.
169
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Posted - 2013.07.16 23:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
MicDeath Titan wrote:Zaxix wrote:Swap out the freighter pilot for another miner. If you're in a station system, suck up the 2 to 3 minute turnaround time and have the Orca drop the ore off periodically. In a non station system, consider putting up a small temporary POS on a nearby moon to dump your stuff at. One full miner will more than make up for the intermittent loss of bonuses. If you make the freighter pilot also mine, that is much much better than having the orca hual. That 2-3 minutes of not having boosts running makes you lose more m3 than just having the freighter dock-switch-collect-dock-switch back to miner-go back to mining I'd love to see the math on that. Assuming all the miners are within range of the roid/ice no matter whether they have bonuses or not, then the only loss in the boosting is to duration of the cycle times. Is 180 seconds to 300 seconds of time offgrid and having 1 full time extra miner really worse than having 1 miner who has to retrieve a freighter, fly it back to pickup, fly back to dropoff and then fly back to the belt and get restarted? Keeping in mind the flight time and align time of the freighter. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but its difficult for me to believe. ***Prodigal Frog***
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Upde
Upde Harris Industries
17
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I thought freighters couldn't load cargo outside of a station / being docked or did that change ? |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
60
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
They changed that couple months ago. |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
17
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote:They changed that couple months ago.
for the love of jesus, are CCP trying to turn this into world or carebears. WTF did they chnage that for. It made perfect sense that a big jack of freighter should be docked at a station or a POS for loading. So now multiboxing ******* herders are just gong to tow a freighter around while hoovering up belts. CCP should jam a charron up their collective dirtboxes |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
169
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Upde wrote:Termy Rockling wrote:They changed that couple months ago. for the love of jesus, are CCP trying to turn this into world or carebears. WTF did they chnage that for. It made perfect sense that a big jack of freighter should be docked at a station or a POS for loading. So now multiboxing ******* herders are just gong to tow a freighter around while hoovering up belts. CCP should jam a charron up their collective dirtboxes What difference is there between opening an airlock on an industrial, Orca, or freighter? It never made any sense that freighters couldn't do everything that every other industrial ship (all haulers and cap industrials) could. If it makes no sense for freighters, why does it make sense for Orcas? To clarify, freighters could always scoop freight containers in space. If they could do that, how is this all that different? Just because that's the way it used to be doesn't mean it made any sense.
edit: they could also interact with certain POS modules in the past, so "docking" was never a primary limiting factor. ***Prodigal Frog***
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MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild Solitude Coalition
17
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Posted - 2013.07.17 05:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:MicDeath Titan wrote:Zaxix wrote:Swap out the freighter pilot for another miner. If you're in a station system, suck up the 2 to 3 minute turnaround time and have the Orca drop the ore off periodically. In a non station system, consider putting up a small temporary POS on a nearby moon to dump your stuff at. One full miner will more than make up for the intermittent loss of bonuses. If you make the freighter pilot also mine, that is much much better than having the orca hual. That 2-3 minutes of not having boosts running makes you lose more m3 than just having the freighter dock-switch-collect-dock-switch back to miner-go back to mining I'd love to see the math on that. Assuming all the miners are within range of the roid/ice no matter whether they have bonuses or not, then the only loss in the boosting is to duration of the cycle times. Is 180 seconds to 300 seconds of time offgrid and having 1 full time extra miner really worse than having 1 miner who has to retrieve a freighter, fly it back to pickup, fly back to dropoff and then fly back to the belt and get restarted? Keeping in mind the flight time and align time of the freighter. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but its difficult for me to believe. Added loss.
We are going to go with your view, and go with the absolute best scenario. Hulks with 1961m3 per cycle. With each cycle at 104 sec per cycle. With 4 hulks and the 1 Rorqual (Cuz hey we are going for the BEST!) he is pulling in 23,532m3 of ore every 104 seconds. 250k m3 ore bay + 137,294=387,294 m3 (because we are cargo fitting a rorqual who is also sitting at the belt. To maximize time spent boosting.) It will take 16 cycles and some change left to fill this Rorqual. This will take 28minutes and about 28 seconds.
Now time to go back to base. Lets assume you are already aligned and ready to go. so about 10 second flight. Lets say it takes another 10 seconds for dock, emptying cargo, and undocking. So far 20 seconds. Now say it takes a minute to get back into warp, no point in turning on links since we of course timed the haul so it happened at the start of the cycle. by the time we land back at the belt, it would have been about 90 seconds. In this instance, it is okay to use a Cargo fitted Rorqual that is on grid to do hauling. Since you can beat the cycles by the time you get back IF you time it, and activate the strips on all miners at the same time.
The best scenario for 4 hulks and 1 rorqual.
Let bring it down to Orca level, also on grid and cargo fitted. Still 23,532 m3 per cycle, and each cycle is 120 seconds. An orca cargo fitted can hold 137,294k+50k+40k=227,294 m3, again also sitting at the belt. It will take 9 cycles and some change to fill the orca. This will take about 19 minutes and 19 seconds.
Also assuming you are aligned and ready to go, about 10 second flight. Again lets say it takes 10 seconds to dock, empty and undock. So far 20 seconds. about 45 second align to warp time, another 10 second flight. 75 seconds out of the 120 seconds, so 45 lee way for derp moments. This too also works as long as your got it down pat. No arguments here.
Again, this is the best scenario to keep an always active boost on, cargo fitted (pops like a zit when ganked), and on grid.
If you do derp and didn't time it right and don't realize it? One mistake will cost 2,941 in m3 per miner that didn't get that cycle boost.
So lets look at the 2-3 minutes it would probably take you in the real world, since we all can't be at our best. With the Rorqual will only need to make two trips, and will force a cycle loss of boosts (this assumes you missed the beginning of the cycle after you undocked. Cuz hey, **** happens you know?) Each miner affected by this will lose 4,299 m3 of ore per cycle missed. Since we have only two trips, that would mean our max total fk up range is 17,196-68,784 m3 per hour. If you take the freighter route, you only ever need to make is a single trip. That will cost you only 10,182 m3 of ore to make that trip, or 16,970 m3 of ore if it took you 5 minutes.
Looking at the Orca now. the fk up range is 11,764-35,292 m3 (lower due to the longer cycle time giving you a leeway so you don't miss that 2nd cycle during transit) The miner needing to grab a freighter to haul will only cause a loss of 10,182 m3 if it takes you 3 minutes or 16,970 m3 if it takes you 5.
So, if you are on the ball, and have it timed down pat, sure go for it. use the booster to haul. I would rather lose a set amount of m3, than worry about messing up even once causing me to lose out of lots of m3 of ore. This becomes even more important the more miners you have.
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joffre lannister
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2013.07.17 09:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
You should post in this thread on all 5 accounts saying things like
"Wow you're a great player!"
Create an artificial-positively reinforced forum environment to enhance the pleasure of visiting this thread for future reads.
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Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
41
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Posted - 2013.07.17 12:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
joffre lannister wrote:You should post in this thread on all 5 accounts saying things like
"Wow you're a great player!"
Create an artificial-positively reinforced forum environment to enhance the pleasure of visiting this thread for future reads.
Kind of like mental ************.
Edit: I did not expect that stroking yourself would get caught by the filter..... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
22131
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Posted - 2013.07.17 13:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:joffre lannister wrote:You should post in this thread on all 5 accounts saying things like
"Wow you're a great player!"
Create an artificial-positively reinforced forum environment to enhance the pleasure of visiting this thread for future reads.
Kind of like mental ************. Edit: I did not expect that stroking yourself would get caught by the filter.....
Oh, it catches everything..........even names of famous authors like Phillip K. ****, and politicians like **** Cheney. |
joffre lannister
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2013.07.17 18:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:joffre lannister wrote:You should post in this thread on all 5 accounts saying things like
"Wow you're a great player!"
Create an artificial-positively reinforced forum environment to enhance the pleasure of visiting this thread for future reads.
Kind of like mental ************. Edit: I did not expect that stroking yourself would get caught by the filter..... Oh, it catches everything..........even names of famous authors like Phillip K. ****, and politicians like **** Cheney.
Good pal **** Cheney. |
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