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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1300
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:15:00 -
[301] - Quote
Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop. This is not a signature. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:18:00 -
[302] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop.
See, there we go with that abuse of the word whining again.
I am simply pointing out facts that show that there is an inbalance. If I was whining I wouldn't be using fact or real numbers and just be spouting nonsense like the frighter gank whiners and the people who think flying a mining barge in empire is dangerous. |
John Bishop
Bishops' Raiders
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:22:00 -
[303] - Quote
eve is a sandbox. but it isnt your sanbox. its the sanbox at the park down town. full of good and bad kids... some kids have overprotective parents (highsec players) others dont (null sec players) and some kids dont care they will ruin your day either way.
high sec doesn't need fixed or Nerfed.
eve is eve. it is chaos in harmony |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1300
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:26:00 -
[304] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop. See, there we go with that abuse of the word whining again. I am simply pointing out facts that show that there is an inbalance. If I was whining I wouldn't be using fact or real numbers and just be spouting nonsense like the frighter gank whiners and the people who think flying a mining barge in empire is dangerous.
You are being hard on me good sir.
Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.
If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.
If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.
Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.
I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy. This is not a signature. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3906
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:27:00 -
[305] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Do hisec rewards need a nerf?
Or is it more that hisec risks need a buff? Nailed it
Note that risk = cost of trying x chance of failure
So to buff risk at the same time as keeping the economist happy, the cost of trying needs to go up significantly. Thus my suggestions to move industry to player control, increase costs of NPC facilities, reduce availability of NPC facilities, and thus enhance the chance of failure since player owned infrastructure can be attacked.
But to do that we need an overhaul of POSes. On the flip side, it puts industry in all space on even footing, with NPC facilities as a fallback for the hypothetical "reboot EVE from scratch" scenario (which is a catch-all for "this group of players got curb-stomped"). Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:31:00 -
[306] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
You are being hard on me good sir.
Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.
If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.
If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.
Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.
I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy.
The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us.
Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:46:00 -
[307] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
You are being hard on me good sir.
Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.
If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.
If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.
Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.
I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy.
The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us. Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there.
OMG -high sec buffed? Let's see, recently, mission rewards have been nerfed in high. Mission AI has been improved - so you lose more drones, and you have a greater risk of getting warp jammed. Ice Mining has been nerfed. Mining rewards have been nerfed in high, increased in low and null. New Criminal Status put into place - now not only do you have to worry about Concorde but everyone in high sec. That's just for starters.
Quit your whining...and play the game. If it is too hard - go play Hello Kitty.
BTW - null is not suppose to be easy. You are rewarded for playing there - you just have to have a lot of people backing you up. If you think you can solo in null - you are not very smart. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:01:00 -
[308] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Numbers show that Null sec is where the vast bulk of PVP deaths have happened on the order of 7 to 1 against high sec. Of high sec losses 8 die to pve for every 1 pvp death and most of those pve deaths are from the likes of condors in tutorial missions.
I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats |
baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:09:00 -
[309] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:
OMG -high sec buffed? Let's see, recently, mission rewards have been nerfed in high. Mission AI has been improved - so you lose more drones, and you have a greater risk of getting warp jammed. Ice Mining has been nerfed. Mining rewards have been nerfed in high, increased in low and null. New Criminal Status put into place - now not only do you have to worry about Concorde but everyone in high sec. That's just for starters.
Quit your whining...and play the game. If it is too hard - go play Hello Kitty.
BTW - null is not suppose to be easy. You are rewarded for playing there - you just have to have a lot of people backing you up. If you think you can solo in null - you are not very smart.
Mission rewards in null and low were also nerfed. Mission AI was improved in all PVE so it also hit low and null. New criminal change have no impact upon upon most PVE activities aside from looters who are now flagged to everyone rather than just the victims corp so in effect, thats made life easier for the missioner.
What you have missed out is the change to agents that resulted in all level 4 agents going to +20 while we saw multiple nerfs to anoms in null sec. The addition of incursions to high sec beats null sec income from anoms hands down. There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec. |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:19:00 -
[310] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us.
Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there.
This proves everything, you obviously have no ******* clue about null at all - this explains your continuous whining over hisec.
so what do you want then? you want hisec to be nerfed so that null activities could have higher value? (not that they aint today)
now then.. you would then go into null (you say we.. so I think it's your corp and or alliance - yes?) then everyone goes there, everyone hunts you, everyone steals your rock or mission... what do you do then?
me as a 0.0 resident.. only good thing about it wold be maybe more targets - and thats maybe because tons of hisec chars are alts.
this hisec nerf idea is only good on paper but in the end it would up costs of all ships, fits.. everything - you'd have to farm 3x more to afford pvp.
you obviously cant be so stupid to think that hisec nerf would make life cheaper?!
baltec1 wrote:What you have missed out is the change to agents that resulted in all level 4 agents going to +20 while we saw multiple nerfs to anoms in null sec. The addition of incursions to high sec beats null sec income from anoms hands down. There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.
what the hell are you on about? how many times I already have asked you to tell me hoe many ppl do incursions?
do you have any god damn idea?
TELLME how is 5x40 and couple of smaller fleets AFFECTING YOUR NULL? are you out of your mind? For ex one of them is me, and it affects me so I could afford PVP in null - if there werent incursions I'd be in null only, wouldnt have hisec char and I'd do still fine. |
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Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:21:00 -
[311] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.
That's why null rat killing is so low.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats |
baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:28:00 -
[312] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Numbers show that Null sec is where the vast bulk of PVP deaths have happened on the order of 7 to 1 against high sec. Of high sec losses 8 die to pve for every 1 pvp death and most of those pve deaths are from the likes of condors in tutorial missions.
I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats
From December 5th, 2007 until November 29th, 2011
High sec PVP losses 1,974,022
Low sec PVP losses 4,126,911
Nul PVP losses 7,061,988
You can find more info from the CCP Diagoras blogs. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3908
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:28:00 -
[313] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:[quote=baltec1]I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats
Most Violent Systems (High-sec, last 24h):
- Couster
- Uitra
- Jita
- Clellinon
- Deepari
- Hadaugago
- Josameto
- Akiainavas
- Jouvulen
- Trossere
So out of the top 10, 3 are not tutorial systems. In Tutorial systems, players will be losing at least two ships due to missions GÇö one where they drive an unfitted condor into a space station and blow it up, a second one where they are ambushed by a large squad of NPCs with webs, scrams, dampers, etc.
But then again, Jita and Uitra together more than make up for the tutorial systems in terms of volume, so just two hisec systems provide more kills per day than the top 3 nullsec systems. The number per system in nullsec drops very rapidly, compared to the number of violences in hisec.
So baltec1 does have a point (the statistics include mandatory PvE losses) but I'm not sure his point really matters, since the volume of losses outside tutorial systems is also quite high. Of course poddings in nullsec wipe hisec poddings right of the charts, but now we're just playing the cherry-picking game of "my thing is bigger than your thing" mixed in wiht a bit of "no true Scotsman."
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:30:00 -
[314] - Quote
he cannot make anything out of dotlan stats I think... we could go on forever here.
1 day later he will make new post somewhere "nerf hisec" and it all continues |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:35:00 -
[315] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:[quote=baltec1]I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats Most Violent Systems (High-sec, last 24h):
- Couster
- Uitra
- Jita
- Clellinon
- Deepari
- Hadaugago
- Josameto
- Akiainavas
- Jouvulen
- Trossere
So out of the top 10, 3 are not tutorial systems. In Tutorial systems, players will be losing at least two ships due to missions GÇö one where they drive an unfitted condor into a space station and blow it up, a second one where they are ambushed by a large squad of NPCs with webs, scrams, dampers, etc. But then again, Jita and Uitra together more than make up for the tutorial systems in terms of volume, so just two hisec systems provide more kills per day than the top 3 nullsec systems. The number per system in nullsec drops very rapidly, compared to the number of violences in hisec. So baltec1 does have a point (the statistics include mandatory PvE losses) but I'm not sure his point really matters, since the volume of losses outside tutorial systems is also quite high. Of course poddings in nullsec wipe hisec poddings right of the charts, but now we're just playing the cherry-picking game of "my thing is bigger than your thing" mixed in wiht a bit of "no true Scotsman."
These are whole regions.
Most violent regions (24 hours) Ships / Pods 0.0 Region 1. Map Fountain 2856 / 2448 2. Map Syndicate 754 / 316 3. Map Providence 651 / 264 4. Map Curse 555 / 322 5. Map UUA-F4 826 / 0 6. Map Stain 297 / 272 7. Map Delve 185 / 353 8. Map Catch 273 / 228 9. Map Deklein 193 / 248 10. Map Pure Blind 225 / 211
Ships / Pods Empire Region 1. Map The Forge 4260 / 901 2. Map Essence 2755 / 311 3. Map Domain 2318 / 529 4. Map Lonetrek 2476 / 343 5. Map Sinq Laison 2275 / 477 6. Map Metropolis 2249 / 470 7. Map Heimatar 2213 / 324 8. Map Black Rise 1960 / 317 9. Map Placid 1836 / 361 10. Map Verge Vendor 1920 / 195
NPC rats do not kill pods - players do.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:37:00 -
[316] - Quote
Compared to high sec, it is.
People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:38:00 -
[317] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Compared to high sec, it is. People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it.
Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years.
|
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:42:00 -
[318] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:baltec1 wrote:Compared to high sec, it is. People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it. Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years.
he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D
he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null"
it's just wrong - wont happen. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:44:00 -
[319] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:baltec1 wrote:Compared to high sec, it is. People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it. Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years. he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null" it's just wrong - wont happen.
I know this, you know this, and many others know this...he is either trolling or is really rather dim witted.
|
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
91
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
The right kind of community to make null thrive doesn't exist here. Maybe the Chinese over on Serenity are doing null better?
I mean... if null is actually fine in theory and we just fail at it in practice, is it really imbalance? |
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baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:51:00 -
[321] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D
he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null"
it's just wrong - wont happen.
We have blown up several trillion isk worth of stuff in the current war. We dont need to nerf high sec to get more targets (who will dock up when we enter system) into null.
This is purely about balance and rewarding people who take risks. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7311
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:54:00 -
[322] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:
NPC rats do not kill pods - players do.
Now take into account the population difference and people podding themselves. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2026
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 09:58:00 -
[323] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:
NPC rats do not kill pods - players do.
Now take into account the population difference and people podding themselves.
Right...all those people in high sec just self destructed.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7312
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:06:00 -
[324] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Right...all those people in high sec just self destructed.
Its one of the main ways of getting around quickly if you don't have access to a jump clone but please, point out where I said all of them.
Also many of the high sec regions you posted infact contain low sec systems and the assorted camps that go long with them on the highsec gates. For example Amamake, Rancer, Tama and Old Man Star are in the top 10 most deadly systems and generate a lot of dead pods which will be added in with your "high sec" regions pod kills.
In fact Rancer (Sinq Laison Region) is the most deadly system to pods in all of EVE with 43.98% of kills being pods. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1243
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:17:00 -
[325] - Quote
Hypercake Mix wrote:The right kind of community to make null thrive doesn't exist here. Maybe the Chinese over on Serenity are doing null better?
I mean... if null is actually fine in theory and we just fail at it in practice, is it really imbalance? a nullsec system centred around bots and kfc money? no, i'm pretty sure they're not doing it right |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:32:00 -
[326] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D
he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null"
it's just wrong - wont happen.
We have blown up several trillion isk worth of stuff in the current war. We dont need to nerf high sec to get more targets (who will dock up when we enter system) into null. This is purely about balance and rewarding people who take risks.
oh okay.. and how do they affect you now again? aint they ones who keep your pvp **** cost down? it's like wanting to be shot in a leg basically.
Havent you already learned that hisec is risky place also and null is not that much risk as you say?
I cant imagine whats so riskyyyyy oughhhh about null. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7312
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:41:00 -
[327] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Havent you already learned that hisec is risky place also and null is not that much risk as you say?
Where is this high sec risk?
You are more likely to get hit by a car in RL than get ganked in a freighter and the chances of a mission boat being ganked are around the same as an American stands at being struck by lightning.
The records show that null sec is at least 4 times more risky than high sec yet the rewards are around the same. We also know that null income has been nerfed quite hard over the years while high sec has seen no nerfs to it and a good few buffs. This has resulted in the current situation where its just not worth the extra effort and risk. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1300
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:46:00 -
[328] - Quote
Dear baltec1, in-game friends of mine (in one of the larger alliances) tell me that they can safely rat etc in null as they have look-outs posted to watch for any unknown ships up to several jumps away.
Not so risky is it?
Cloaked ship in your system? No problem dock up, and hi-sec folk are risk averse!
Always remember, that for the newer players in particular, level 4 missions are really quite hard to do.
To put it bluntly, don't like the hi-sec playground, stay out of it.
No one forced you to go to null, that was your decision.
Live with the consequences.
This is not a signature. |
Uma D
Uma D Ltd.
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:46:00 -
[329] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
how many exhumers go *pop* per day? have you even bothered to learn about it? hisec is ridiculous isk sink.. while also being so called "risk free isk faucet"
Thank you so much for that statement, which clearly shows you do not understand anything about how eve works.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7312
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:54:00 -
[330] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear baltec1, in-game friends of mine (in one of the larger alliances) tell me that they can safely rat etc in null as they have look-outs posted to watch for any unknown ships up to several jumps away.
Not so risky is it?
If it wasn't risky they wouldn't be docking up every time a neutral entered system would they? |
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