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Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll keep this short.
1. We need separate salvaging sites that make use of salvaging skills (Relic sites seem to only use hacking skills.)
2. Give us a tech I salvaging starter frigate similar to the ORE mining frigate. Not a heron with salvaging bonuses or a Noctis that is not a starter frigate. |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
697
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:1. We need separate salvaging sites that make use of salvaging skills (Relic sites seem to only use hacking skills.)
relic sites use archeology, which is pretty close to hacking compared to the salvage skill.
Fortis88 wrote:2. Give us a tech I salvaging starter frigate similar to the ORE mining frigate. Not a heron with salvaging bonuses or a Noctis that is not a starter frigate.
It's called a destroyer with 4 salvagers, 4 tractor beams and salvage rigs. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
501
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Go into a wormhole with a few friends and salvage the sleeper wrecks
risk/reward ratios. EVE has them. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:2. Give us a tech I salvaging starter frigate similar to the ORE mining frigate. Not a heron with salvaging bonuses or a Noctis that is not a starter frigate.
It's called a destroyer with 4 salvagers, 4 tractor beams and salvage rigs.[/quote]
Don't troll bro. Apparently you cannot read. I knew there would be one who couldn't. I SAID STARTER FRIGATE. One that is specially made for salvaging. This gives credibility to the salvaging profession and reinforces that it is an actual profession. If I wanted to build a make-shift salvaging vessel out of a destroyer, I would. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
And archeology is not salvaging. Neither is hacking. That's why they are separate skills. Please only serious responses. |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
197
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
What would be the point when you can salvage just fine in a Heron? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1395
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Posted - 2013.07.18 17:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
What would you want to see in a dedicated salvage frig that can't already be done in current hulls? And how would that improve the game as a whole? |
hellcane
Never Back Down
68
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Salvaging doesn't need more because it isn't an actual dedicated profession? |
Daytarion
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
2
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:Don't troll bro. Apparently you cannot read. I knew there would be one who couldn't. I SAID STARTER FRIGATE. One that is specially made for salvaging. This gives credibility to the salvaging profession and reinforces that it is an actual profession. If I wanted to build a make-shift salvaging vessel out of a destroyer, I would. Do you know how long it takes to train for the aforementioned destroyed?
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
715
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 20:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Salvaging is one of the few things in Eve that need no re-balancing whatsoever. Eve is Real |
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
890
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 20:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daytarion wrote:Quote:Don't troll bro. Apparently you cannot read. I knew there would be one who couldn't. I SAID STARTER FRIGATE. One that is specially made for salvaging. This gives credibility to the salvaging profession and reinforces that it is an actual profession. If I wanted to build a make-shift salvaging vessel out of a destroyer, I would. Do you know how long it takes to train for the aforementioned destroyed?
16m on a starter map with no implants. Hardest part will be affording the skill book as a newbie. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 22:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:What would be the point when you can salvage just fine in a Heron? You can mine just fine in an ibis too. That didn't stop CCP from creating a special ORE mining frigate. Mining is a real profession. Just saying...I would like to see salvaging bumped up to the "real" category as well. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 22:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1395
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 22:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site.
Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? |
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.07.18 23:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
I've always been a fan of salvage... it's like a drug for me. I agree it would be nice to see salvaging evolve into a larger profession.
With the the recent change to exploration Data/Relic sites (and the removal of cans that required the use of a salvager) I highly doubt a simple "click salvager get loot" type of exploration site (like we once had) will be created. I also think creating a site with a mini-game (like the data/relic sites) and spew cans would be redundant. Right now the two analyzer modules work in a completely different way (via the mini-game and spew) than a salvager (loot goes into cargo), so I see no reason to expect a similar type of site.
The Noctis was a great start for making salvaging a profession. With the current mechanics I don't really see a need for a frig with salvaging bonuses (a destroyer is already a great choice for new characters). Maybe an Ore variant of a destroyer with a salvage (but without the tractor) bonus?
I could envision a "belt" (for lack of a better descriptor) like a grav site that contains large chunks of ships. They would be analogous to rocks and mining. Turn on salvagers on these large wrecks, and after each cycle a given amount of salvage would be generated and put into the cargo hold. Different types of wrecks could produce different types of salvage. Just like grav sites you'd have the occasional rat showing-up that would need to be handled.
One advantage to a salvaging site (compared to a grav site) would be the volume of the material being generated. Smaller ships could be used, but some larger items (metal scraps?) would need to be generated as well... a noob ship shouldn't be able to salvage all day without needing to empty the cargo a few times. Of course there would also need to be balancing of salvage rates to avoid further saturating (an argurably already over-saturated) market, but it could be done. Maybe a new type of salvage (below T1) could be created that would need to be "refined" into T1 salvage?
In the end, it seems like a lot to items/features to add to essentially recreate mining but with different names/icons. |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
197
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Posted - 2013.07.18 23:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:Johan Toralen wrote:What would be the point when you can salvage just fine in a Heron? You can mine just fine in an ibis too. That didn't stop CCP from creating a special ORE mining frigate. Mining is a real profession. Just saying...I would like to see salvaging bumped up to the "real" category as well.
There is a good progression in ships available already. Start with a frig, move on to "Ghetto Noctis" (destroyer with some salvagers and tractors) then Noctis. The idea behind the Venture was having a frig with ore hold. You don't need that for salvaging because salvage doesn't take up much cargo space at all. Salvaging is a profession already aswell. Offer your service to mission runners, ninja salvage or salvage Elite wrecks in FW low sec. I think you can forget about salvage sites because this has just been removed with Odyssey. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Toddfish wrote:I've always been a fan of salvage... it's like a drug for me. I agree it would be nice to see salvaging evolve into a larger profession.
With the the recent change to exploration Data/Relic sites (and the removal of cans that required the use of a salvager) I highly doubt a simple "click salvager get loot" type of exploration site (like we once had) will be created. I also think creating a site with a mini-game (like the data/relic sites) and spew cans would be redundant. Right now the two analyzer modules work in a completely different way (via the mini-game and spew) than a salvager (loot goes into cargo), so I see no reason to expect a similar type of site.
The Noctis was a great start for making salvaging a profession. With the current mechanics I don't really see a need for a frig with salvaging bonuses (a destroyer is already a great choice for new characters). Maybe an Ore variant of a destroyer with a salvage (but without the tractor) bonus?
I could envision a "belt" (for lack of a better descriptor) like a grav site that contains large chunks of ships. They would be analogous to rocks and mining. Turn on salvagers on these large wrecks, and after each cycle a given amount of salvage would be generated and put into the cargo hold. Different types of wrecks could produce different types of salvage. Just like grav sites you'd have the occasional rat showing-up that would need to be handled.
Or maybe hey could make it so some structures in various exploration sites (like the scraps seen floating around in space people are always running into) can have a salvage module activated on them?
One advantage to a salvaging site (compared to a grav site) would be the volume of the material being generated (it would be more processed than ore, and therefore have less volume). Smaller ships could be used, but would need to be large enough so that a noob ship couldn't salvage all day without unloading.
Of course there would also need to be balancing of salvage rates to avoid further saturating (an arguably already over-saturated) market, but it could be done. Maybe a new type of salvage could be created that would need to be "refined" into T1 salvage? Or maybe some new types of "metal scraps" that can be sold and/or refined into minerals?
That said, unfortunately it seems like a lot of items/features to add to essentially recreate mining but with different names/icons. love it. I would tweek some of your ideas here and there but you have the same passion for salvaging that I do. Especially the salvage belts. Interesting idea. Or salvaging old battlefields (instead of just being for looks). Great ideas. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? Nothing. What does a "Captain's Quarters" add to a spaceship game about spaceships? Why in the hell do I care what kind of pants my avatar is wearing? If they can put something useless in the game like that, why not a salvage site for ships that has some relevance? |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? You're probably one of those people who is condescending to other players for legitimate concerns in EVE but yet fully supports "bouncing boobs". Am I right? Thanks for acting like your a DEV. Move along. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:[quote=Fortis88]And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? You seem to be one of those people who acts condescending when other players voice legitimate concerns with EVE but yet fully supports something stupid like "bouncing boobs" for avatars or the useless "Captains Quarters". Am I right? Well get off your high horse. Your opinion is not the only one. This game fosters other players each with their own unique way of playing EVE. That's why its a sandbox. So take the stick out and move along. |
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Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.07.19 03:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:Fortis88 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? You seem to be one of those people who acts condescending when other players voice legitimate concerns with EVE but yet fully supports something stupid like "bouncing boobs" for avatars or the useless "Captains Quarters". Am I right? Well get off your high horse. Your opinion is not the only one. This game fosters other players each with their own unique way of playing EVE. That's why its a sandbox. So take the stick out and move along.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1395
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 03:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? Nothing. What does a "Captain's Quarters" add to a spaceship game about spaceships? Why in the hell do I care what kind of pants my avatar is wearing? If they can put something useless in the game like that, why not a salvage site for ships that has some relevance?
Yeah, I'd take all that out in a damn heartbeat. But a negative justification for something based on "yeah, but we also have these useless things" isn't exactly compelling. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Fortis88 wrote:And people lets not focus primarily on the 2nd topic. I put it second for a reason. I would primarily like to see a separate salvaging exploration site. Ok, let's back up to that then. What would that add to the game? Nothing. What does a "Captain's Quarters" add to a spaceship game about spaceships? Why in the hell do I care what kind of pants my avatar is wearing? If they can put something useless in the game like that, why not a salvage site for ships that has some relevance? Yeah, I'd take all that out in a damn heartbeat. But a negative justification for something based on "yeah, but we also have these useless things" isn't exactly compelling. Edit: I'm asking what it would add to the game because a) I think it's an important question, b) I think it's important to think about how new ideas play into an already highly saturated market, and c) because justifying time spent on new features is valid. I never once said it was a bad idea, I asked a question. Your answer, quite honestly, wasn't good. At least tell me it adds something new so we can argue about whether that something is good for the game as a whole. To tell you the truth, it adds pride to being a salvager. If we have an official salvage starter frigate (Noctis doesn't count) for new players, they will have a sense of pride in their salvage ship and salvage profession. When I saw the ORE mining frigate, I kinda wished I was a miner so I could have a reason to fly such a cool little ship. |
Fortis88
Caldari Salvage Corp.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 04:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
And as for the salvage sites, we as salvagers, should have a site that uses our skills as well. They have a site for every other profession or subprofession (gas mining, hacking, data analyzing, combat) and mining anomalies (ice mining) etc. but no salvage sites? (Salvaging combat sites does not count since salvagers can just as easily salvage a mission for the same mediocre loot.) It would benefit the game and all salvagers since we would have a specialized area to use our expertise for the hope of a more lucrative drop. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
130
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:And as for the salvage sites, we as salvagers, should have a site that uses our skills as well. They have a site for every other profession or subprofession (gas mining, hacking, data analyzing, combat) and mining anomalies (ice mining) etc. but no salvage sites? There are far more professions and subprofessions than those you listed, and the vast majority do not have their own special sites. Also, sites are the only thing that the exploration/gas/ice mining professions can use, while salvagers can ply their trade anywhere there's combat. |
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
164
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
These salvage sites are already in game, they are called incursions.
in these systems you can find large chunks of wreaks flying around for your leisure to stick your little mittens on them |
Reuben Johnson II
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
We already have the ships. The dessie's given out during the tut is just fine. What's needed to make it a "proffesion" is a change in the wreck mechanic. There are scores of wrecks floating around in any belt that miners don't want., but they don't blue them. The current mechanic won't allow you to tractor yellows, and they disappear after 2 hours.
Now I understand CCP wanting to give both the killers and the killed a chance to loot their own wrecks, I'm fine with that. What needs to happen is for wrecks to stay for 4 hours, and after the first 2 hours, the wreck turns blue.
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Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
512
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lilan Kahn wrote:These salvage sites are already in game, they are called incursions.
in these systems you can find large chunks of wreaks flying around for your leisure to stick your little mittens on them
I asked about this before and most people said that incursion rats don't give any decent salvage. |
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
164
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Lilan Kahn wrote:These salvage sites are already in game, they are called incursions.
in these systems you can find large chunks of wreaks flying around for your leisure to stick your little mittens on them I asked about this before and most people said that incursion rats don't give any decent salvage.
give normal sansha salvage |
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.07.19 22:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fortis88 wrote:And as for the salvage sites, we as salvagers, should have a site that uses our skills as well. They have a site for every other profession or subprofession (gas mining, hacking, data analyzing, combat). I've always considered those sites to be the domain of the Exploration profession. Having a site that requires scanning probes, but the use of a salvager, wouldn't change that. Also, I see those who salvage in a similar situation as those who play the markets... there isn't a special ship/site for them, but it's still a profession. The nice thing about both salvaging and playing markets is that it can be done everywhere... it's up to the player to recognize the opportunities and capitalize on them.
For me the salvaging profession was all about finding combat zones, tracking down combat pilots, negotiating salvage rights (getting a fleet invite), etc. When I first started I might not have received the ISK/hr of the combat pilot, but I was able to make significantly more than a combat pilot with similar skill points. As my skills increased I was able to expand my salvaging to more risky (and therefore more rewarding) environments.
While I've progressed further into exploration over the past few years, I still see many opportunities to utilize salvaging as a profession. Out in Null many people run anomalies, but are too busy to clean-up the wrecks. The more adventurous can clean-up after PvP engagements.
Fortis88 wrote:It would benefit the game and all salvagers since we would have a specialized area to use our expertise for the hope of a more lucrative drop. I don't really think there is a need for a special area for salvaging. That's one of the great things about the salvaging profession... you can do it everywhere. Just because someone trains a skill a few levels don't really given them "expertise" in anything... especially when you just lock wreck, activate salvager, get loot. The "expertise" of the salvaging profession is HOW you get your wrecks to salvage.
Also, towards your last statement... things are only lucrative due to being rare (and in demand). In EvE, rarity is (roughly) derived from risk. As someone who makes a profession based on salvage, I'm sure you're aware of what happens when the risk associated with items is decreased (removed). Adding a salvage site without having high levels of risk (aka. rats that also require a combat ability) would only serve to further devalue any lucrative drops that currently exist.
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