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Bad Queen
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:19:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I usually belong to the silent majority, happy to play EVE warts and all. But, with the recent string of outages and my frustration rising accordingly, I thought it time to put pen to paper as it were.
Last night was the most frustrating night in quite a while. Why is it that practically the most expensive MMOPG has probably the worst record for stability? You would have thought that being so expensive in comparison to games like PlanetSide, that the infrastructure would be second to none. Wrong! This is so not the case. We used to complain if we got a 2% packet loss on PlanetSide but this is trivial in comparison to what is happening in EVE.
We see all sorts of blame being apportioned to Databases, Clusters etc. etc. ad nauseum but night after night I get connection dropped etc.
I am a System Engineer, in fact I work in a clustered database environment containing dozens of servers with databases terabytes in size and hundreds of thousands of clients connecting to these. If this environment were one tenth as unreliable as EVE is at the moment, I would be out of a job pure and simple.
EVE has a very loyal and patient fan base, so should CCP not return this loyalty by giving all one free month in recognition of this. After all, it's the customers who pay your salary, not the other way round.
Have a nice day Ayez un beau jour Haben Sie einen sch÷nen Tag Heb een aardige dag Tenga un dfa agradable Abbia un giorno piacevole Έχετε μια συμπαθητική ημέρα Имейте славный день
eh? wadda ya mean "long live the king" ? |
El test0
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:29:00 -
[2]
I get TONS of disconnects from EVE. At least 1 per hour. This is the only online game where I get so many disconnects, which sucks, because I really want to buy it (i'm on a trial account at the moment).
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Gariuys on 14/12/2005 09:31:08 A month? Are you insane? DO you think they can stand the loss of income of 800.000 euros???? And most expensive? Think it's pretty much the same for all of em.
And bad stuff happens, we all live with it, and they do their best. IT's enough.
And don't get all those disconnects. I never ever disconnect, unless there's something seriously wrong with the server, which isn't all that often. I suggest checking your own hardware/connection etc. Cause if it's EVE why don't I suffer the same fate? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:39:00 -
[4]
I rarely get disconnected.. perhaps once in a month or so. I suspect its the line between you and CCP thats the problem. And that is out of CCP's hands, wich you should know if you really are a system engineer.
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:40:00 -
[5]
You need to play more MMO's if you think EVE is below-par.
Or maybe I just need to get out more.
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00miner
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:43:00 -
[6]
What the hell time do you play Eve??? How can you not have been disconnected like the rest of us. With physical server outages you have no choice but to be disconnected.
I must admit the server uptime in the last month has sucked!!!!
Really bad with disconnects and Lag. I also work in a data center and we offer 24x7 up time on all our services which is a pretty standard practice. If we gave the same service as this our customer base would diminish overnight!!!
Come on CCP sort it out please. I just pray that this patch will not cause more outages than we have already suffered in the last month.
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Borys
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:44:00 -
[7]
I get diconnected from Eve at least 2 times each time I play. It¦s not CCP fault though, I¦ve got a bad connection to my ISP. I used to have another ISP before and I was never disconnected from EvE. ------------------------- Sunny Iceland, -sland bezt f heimi!
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex? |
Kipkruide
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:49:00 -
[8]
as stated disconnects are ISP probs, nothing to do with CCP, I have 2 rooms now, in one i have ADSL and i never get any disconnects. In the other i have cable and another provider and i am happy if i can stay on for 40 mins at a time without crashing, make that 30 mins if i run more then one client.
Advice get DSL if you don't have it and live in a country with a great internet backbone, Holland 4tw. In the end cable just sucks balls since it's shared compared to DSL. Can't wait to move back to my normal room, unf 4 more months :(
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Zolofine
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:53:00 -
[9]
Hey,
Perhaps it would be better if all these posts were put in one thread instead of making countless separate ones? There are outages yes, and? Do you think these are done intentionally or otherwise allowed to happen if there would be a foreseeable way to prevent them? Why on earth would CCP want their forums full of complaints like these? Having a post full of complaints is not good advertising for new players, in case you didn't realize that.
I believe your request for one free month is quite extravagant. As if that was in any way reasonable considering the fact that CCP has a major upgrade to pay for.
I understand your complaint however and it is a valid one, but i do not see any point in making it. I think everyone knows that server instability is undesirable and CCP most of all. Hence i believe they are making every possible attempt to prevent disaster and improve gaming experience all together. If you want to get technical, then consider the upcoming FREE expansion named 'RMR' as your compensation for these annoyances. Since by all means, CCP have already gone past the point of living up to their promises and hence, from my point of view, they no longer bare any responsibility to keep providing these expansion packs completely free of charge. But they do, and in my perhaps bizarre world, that buys them the right to a few upsies without me hounding for free game time. |
Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:55:00 -
[10]
Ah to be honest I rarely have disconnects. I have had a couple of days where I have many, then months without. When it does occur, a quick clean up of cache folder seems to solve it all. Maybe there is a problem with your provider, just guessing there I am dumb when it comes to these things.
As to the global disconnect and trouble last night. I have a feeling its my fault in a fate style sense (nothing to do with technical failure), but cannot go in to too much details on that. Just a theory of mine about important life events.
_______
Save me Jebus!
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
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Adromir Melg'arh
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:59:00 -
[11]
I also get a lot of deconnection, the game was also laggy, and the response time when hawful when I was trying to open my hangar station.
Of course, I blamed CCP at the first place but then I investigate a bit and found out that it was my ISP provider that was the reason of my troubles, I change my ISP and woooosh all problems solved ! No more deconection, response time is now outstanding ! I can finaly appreciate all the new upgrade CCP has done for the game !
So if you are constantly disconnected from the game, have a look to your ISP provider and look if your problem is not there, just try to traceroute to the server if it takes age to get the final server, you have a problem with your ISP. dot. It's not CCP fault.
Have a nice day
Adromir Melg'arh
--- Take care out there ! |
Crayathan
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Crayathan on 14/12/2005 10:01:34 The ONLY times i get disconnected from EVE are when they have a problem like last night, when MY router dies and when its d/t.
I think people are to quick to blame.
ps. I used to have a problem with disconnects and CTD but found it was a problem with my pc. EVE is a sensitive lady and doesn't like dodgy ram
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil |
Bahnny
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:07:00 -
[13]
I've only been disconnected a handful of times, but for some people it is a problem, its not necessarily your isp's or ccp's fault, it can be any hop in between you. It's most likely a routing issue on the backbone ccp's using, depending on which route you take into it..
Maybe they are multihomed and one of the providers just sucks *cough* Level3 *cough* (the people that have spoken up that work in DC's should know how much problems L3 has caused in the past 6months)
Who knows - it would require a bit of investigation to figure out where the problems are with their network and I can't be bothered to investigate it. Come on CCP, if your paying for cheap bandwidth your gonna cause weird connection issues, i'm sure your own techs are sick of answering tickets regarding it, Find a nice 100%uptime backbone with a good SLA!
Then when problems do occur you can pass on your discount by extending peoples subscriptions by a day or two just to keep everyone happy
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Jastra
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:08:00 -
[14]
"I am a System Engineer, in fact I work in a clustered database environment containing dozens of servers with databases terabytes in size and hundreds of thousands of clients connecting to these. If this environment were one tenth as unreliable as EVE is at the moment, I would be out of a job pure and simple."
Meah, there are hundreds of clusters like that all over the planet running reliably because for the most part they run standard off the shelf applications , boring corporate databases in a tried and tested way, EVE is a unique game with 17-18000 people logged on from all over the planet on sometimes flaky connections, deal with it, go make a coffee (or perhaps not, ey)and wait for the server to come back
I get disconnected only when a major outage occurs, and that is so infrequent as to not impact my game enjoyment at all, good job CCP
[Coreli Mainframe]
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:16:00 -
[15]
i agree that the uptime and availability off eve has been better in the past, but i also know that some causes are beyond ccp's power to control, and that they are doing everything to improve eve in general.
so ask yourself these questions,
do other mmo's have servers with 20k users online at peak hours? do other mmo's offer you the ability to play with anyone, no matter where in the world they are, without having to switch to the 'european' or 'american' server? do other mmo's always offer their expansions for free?
i think you need to really think what ccp is doing on a daily basis, 23/7, and then think who else in the world does anything remotely like it...
i think this thread sums up the idea quite nicely
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Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:30:00 -
[16]
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for RMR to fix the problems, because it is not just disconnects that worry me, its the random LAG.
Originally by: Oveur EVE Online - even the forums have PVP
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Eagle32
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bad Queen Why is it that practically the most expensive MMOPG has probably the worst record for stability?
Most expensive? The game only costs $5 initially to buy in addition to your first months charge. Monthly rates are in-line with all the other major mmo's. Examples: SWG, WoW and Everquest 2.
All these others require you buy a boxed game at full retail to play. Alright you get a month free with them but Free Month + Retail is a lot more than your first month of eve.
Originally by: Bad Queen You would have thought that being so expensive in comparison to games like PlanetSide, that the infrastructure would be second to none. Wrong! This is so not the case. We used to complain if we got a 2% packet loss on PlanetSide but this is trivial in comparison to what is happening in EVE.
You obviously have a very rosy view of planetside. I played that when it came out originally and it was quite frankly a steaming pile of crap. It was so buggy at release it rapidly got kicked to bargain bin pricing and a much lower monthly fee. The last time I played it 6 months ago it had improved greatly but the downtime was still no better than any other mmo.
I waited for over a year playing SWG for SOE to fix the combat system so PvP wasn't a waste of time. Others waited since the game began. It took over 2 years and a paid expansion before they finally got round to doing something about it. What's it like? I don't know. They aren't getting any more of my money to find out. They've also spammed out 2 more paid expansions in the last 18months. Sounds like Everquest all over again.
Eve's had enough free content patches like RMR to make at least 2 expansions that SOE or Blizzard would have made you pay for.
CCP's support has been superiour when I've made use of it. Ever tried WoW in-game support? They're just a pack of abusive ****ers. They seriously need to look at there support staff.
We have dev blogs and devs actually posting useful infomation in the forums and responding to feedback. Find that in an SOE game. Of course they don't respond to every single message. They'd never get anything done. But they obviously pay attention to the big picture and what the players are after given all the content patches. Some things aren't going to happen for technical reasons or because it only benefits a small percentage of the player base but overall we have a lot to be very thankful for.
These over exaggerated drama queen whines need either the nerf bat or the mod bat imo. Especially when they come from people who feel they need to add in "and I work in a database center that handles millions of transactions a day". Cry me a river.
When you've written a successful mmo with 50k+ subscribers on a game developers budget with all the abuse you'll be taking from every single person that wants something slightly different that is flawless you can come and whine.
/rant off
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:00:00 -
[18]
errm
/me looks at the UPtime on CCP's datacenter network
hmmm still on 99.9% over the last 18 months
man i wish my ISP was that relable
jezzz people
deal with it..
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Bad Queen
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Uther Doull i agree that the uptime and availability off eve has been better in the past, but i also know that some causes are beyond ccp's power to control, and that they are doing everything to improve eve in general.
so ask yourself these questions,
do other mmo's have servers with 20k users online at peak hours? do other mmo's offer you the ability to play with anyone, no matter where in the world they are, without having to switch to the 'european' or 'american' server? do other mmo's always offer their expansions for free?
i think you need to really think what ccp is doing on a daily basis, 23/7, and then think who else in the world does anything remotely like it...
i think this thread sums up the idea quite nicely
Blizzard have 4,000,000 subscribers which I'm lead to believe is orders of magnitude more than EVE.
PlanetSide has had perhaps one outage in two years and is far more intense bandwidth wise being a true PVP FPS than EVE.
Perhaps the likes of Sony and Blizzard et al have the much better data centres or network pipes.
I do know that PlanetSide cost me seven quid per month and is practically trouble free whereas EVE cost about a tenner and is not. Perhaps my 10 meg connection has a problem, but if this were the case all games would suffer!
Still, all this being said, I do really love the game but am uber frustrated with the poor delivery.
In short, if you want 20K plus folks to battle it out trouble free then provide the vehicle to do so.
May I also suggest that you get onto PlanetSide on a Saturday night, you'll see exactly what I mean.
Have a nice day Ayez un beau jour Haben Sie einen sch÷nen Tag Heb een aardige dag Tenga un dfa agradable Abbia un giorno piacevole Έχετε μια συμπαθητική ημέρα Имейте славный день eh? wadda ya mean "long live the king" ? |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:03:00 -
[20]
It is impossible to have more than one constant outage.
Thus, due to the oxymoron inherent in the subject, this thread should be deleted.
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
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raahman
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:13:00 -
[21]
Eve at the end of the day is a business providing a service. Since the user numbers have climbed the outages and lag have increased. Although they have brought in new equipment ( and maybe the lag in the more popular systems has got better) I am now experiencing more bootings. If this was my cable supplier I would be on the phone to them all the time demanding compensation. Why should we treat CCP any differently???? If we do not complain they will become complacent. Then where will we all be ??? Looking for another game to play!!!
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Elin Eliasson
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:14:00 -
[22]
Bad Queen
and all the other people who say they are System Engineer, or similar ^-^
if that was true you worked I never seen posts from you about server or connection issues.
Then you/those would understand and "not" post post like this.
Here you see the current network stability
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: raahman Eve at the end of the day is a business providing a service. Since the user numbers have climbed the outages and lag have increased. Although they have brought in new equipment ( and maybe the lag in the more popular systems has got better) I am now experiencing more bootings. If this was my cable supplier I would be on the phone to them all the time demanding compensation. Why should we treat CCP any differently???? If we do not complain they will become complacent. Then where will we all be ??? Looking for another game to play!!!
Which will then reduce peak loads, reduce lag, and make the game more playable for those who stay. cya. ______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:15:00 -
[24]
the recent outages are common around such a large patch for most of us longer players the game is accessible 99% of the time.
But the improvements from this patch will outweight any short term ppl that leave - records continue to be set all teh SGW refugees are finding this game better i know ive got 10 in my corp that are still here one month on.
But can i have youre stuff if u leave
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Yameth
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:18:00 -
[25]
Why are people *****in like this in every MMO forum I know. It's pointless. I'm sure CCP is doing everything they can to resolve problems, because that benefits both themselves and us.
Every system has new bugs once in a while, unless no new features are added anymore, and we wouldn't like that right.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:21:00 -
[26]
just send me an ingame evemail and escrow all youre stuff to me and then quitely quit - much appreciated
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raahman
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:29:00 -
[27]
I'm sure CCP are doing everything they can but if we dont let them know that we are not happy about it....
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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:30:00 -
[28]
Quote: Perhaps my 10 meg connection has a problem, but if this were the case all games would suffer!
Have you actually run a traceroute to the server when you get disconnected? Have you passed this issue onto to your ISP and EVE support with a log of the traceroute?
Quote: (random people) yadda..yadda..system engineering..yadda..yadda.. eve is a business .. i would be out of a job if i was so pathetic
What's the point in comparing eve to a 99.999999% uptime guarentee datacenter, when the eve cluster is actually *fine for everyone else* and it's 99.9999% certain it's your route that is the problem?
Anyone who actually has half a clue about networking would understand that outages are not always at the destination, but can be anywhere along the route, and more often than not, are.
I can't say I've noticed being disconnected at all in the past month, and I have noticed very little "lag" going about my day to day stuff (which doesn't include sitting in Jita or 200+ fleet battles, but that is a different matter)
Morale of story: traceroute is your friend (download pingplotter, winmtr, or the like) Eve Fitting Manager |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: raahman I'm sure CCP are doing everything they can but if we dont let them know that we are not happy about it....
Then they assume nobody minds unexpected server/connection trouble. SUREEE!!!!!! geez ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
solidshot
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:42:00 -
[30]
although ccp has the ocasional problem most are isp related, its not down to ccp to refund you for a problem not caused by them
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