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Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.21 21:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been running level 4s with my Tengu for some time now, and they have always gone very smoothly. No warping out, good DPS, can orbit a wreck for most of the mission, and can run from the computer if needed. Against Guristas, the DPS is also very nice.
However, I was looking at using an alt to assist, instead of just salvage at the end. I figured that since I have an alt with decent drone skills, I would try semi-afking a drone ship, since I have seen many people mention it. (and since they are solo, I figured that this would work out perfectly with two characters.)
So I fit out a Dominix, took "The Assault," and flew my Tengu and Dominix out there. Tengu goes it first, and starts agroing the stuff, and the Dominix comes in about 30 seconds later. Most of the NPCs are about 40km off, and some out around 100km, so I toss out my Gardes. Since I dont have anything on me, I have to tell the Gardes who to target, and that is fine, because I have two monitors, and it took minimal time. Getting ECMed was a pain, but still. The problem was that about 15 seconds after the Gardes started shooting, half the ships decided that my space potato looked mighty tasty, and completely switched to me. I got my LARs going, and noticed that I had two Gardes taking damage. Scoop them up, wait 5 seconds, poop them back out. By this time, almost all the ships have switched to my Dominix, even though my Tengu is putting out more DPS, and is closer.
So I scoop up the Gardes again, and Micro Jump. This puts them about 120km away, which was farther than my 104km targeting range. No big deal, start floating him over while you mess around with the Tengu. Too bad that nearly all those ships were still on my Dominix, and pounding him with cruise missiles, even at 120km. (And I read SO many places that a heavy tank wouldnt be needed, because you just jump and range tank... Yeah...) So I get into targeting range, and drop the Bouncers. They dont get agro, but I have to scoop them and warp out because the damage was easily overpowering my Core A-type LAR. The Tengu now gets all the agro again, and spend the rest of the time at 100% shields, orbiting his wreck.
Once I get some cap back, I warp the Dominix back in, drop the Gardes, and about 15 seconds later I get agro again, some even to the drones. (this is post wave spawn, btw. Just random agro switches) Again, the Dominix is farther away, doing less DPS, and yet the whole room really likes the way he smells. Scoop, MJD, Bouncers, blah. Same results, but this time the room clears before I run out of cap on the Dominix. Tengu still orbiting his wreck, still at 100% shields.
Repeat for pocket two, including very sporadic agro changes towards my drones. Good thing that this was a "drop drones at 100km and make yourself a sandwich" ship, being that I spent almost all my time and attention babysitting it, while the Tengu actually worked semi afk for the most part. Just pick new targets, and start shooting after reloading for the most part.
So seriously, wtf? Why does everyone say that the Dominix is a great AFK ship? I should have just spent the extra time, got a second Tengu, and flown those two... Likely would have been nearly as fast, no slow boating BS, no warping out, no drone micromanagement, no crazy agro swaps (which I was assured wouldnt happen, being that agro was already taken...) etc. I did "The Score" as well, with very similar results. Even worse, I was so busy micromanaging the crap, that I MJDed and forgot to stop ship, and when my Bouncers got agro, I was 17km off...
TL;DR:
The Dominix is far from a semi-AFK ship, and I dont get why people suggest it as such. Especially not as a second ship for mission running... |
Velarra
259
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Posted - 2013.07.21 21:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Missions & Complexes Subforum |
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.21 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Um... If anything, it should be in ships, but I think general discussion is a good place for a "why do people suggest X for Y" thread... |
Jezza McWaffle
The-Hole-Idea Void-Legion
33
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Posted - 2013.07.21 21:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
I take it you dont know about the mission NPC change that happened a good while ago...
NPC's now target (AFAIK) the nearest thing to their size. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3028
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Posted - 2013.07.21 21:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Missions & Complexes Subforum
For the linky challenged: --> Missions & Complexes
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Whitehound
1613
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Posted - 2013.07.21 22:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
in-+com-+pe-+tent /in-êk+ñmp+Öt+Önt/
Adjective Not having the necessary skills to do something successfully.
Noun An incompetent person.
Synonyms incapable - unfit - unable - inefficient - unqualified
Also related to:
quitter [-êkw+¬t+Ö] n a person who gives up easily; defeatist, deserter, or shirker
======> Pro tip: try again, try more than once. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2013.07.21 22:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:I take it you dont know about the mission NPC change that happened a good while ago...
NPC's now target (AFAIK) the nearest thing to their size.
This is not quite right.
I have the same set up for doing exploration sites. I use an Ishtar though. The exact same thing happens. It seems that the aggro mechanics are weighted more heavily vs drone ships. I have done this when warping in multiple cruiser hulls at the same time after the Tengu, the Ishtar's always get the aggro not other stuff. You can pull in the drones and just sit there soaking up damage and doing no DPS from the Ishtar and aggro still does not shift to the Tengu.
Something is clearly wrong. I have not bothered to bug report it since the response would be something along the lines of yours, "the poster is ignorant of mechanics and is just whining." |
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2013.07.21 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mater Otomeya wrote:However, I was looking at using an alt to assist, instead of just salvage at the end. I figured that since I have an alt with decent drone skills, I would try semi-afking a drone ship, since I have seen many people mention it. (and since they are solo, I figured that this would work out perfectly with two characters.)
Put the drones on assist to the Tengu and what it fires at the sentrys will. |
Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.07.21 22:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ashina Sito wrote:Mater Otomeya wrote:However, I was looking at using an alt to assist, instead of just salvage at the end. I figured that since I have an alt with decent drone skills, I would try semi-afking a drone ship, since I have seen many people mention it. (and since they are solo, I figured that this would work out perfectly with two characters.)
Put the drones on assist to the Tengu and what it fires at the sentrys will.
Does that fix the aggro issue? Because the ops complaint as i understand it is that he would ha e less micromanaging sentry aggro if he just flew 2 tengus. Easier to managing. No scooping and wapring around = more dps = faster mission completion and less stress.
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Seth Mortis
Lone Walker Corp
2
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
going against guristas with a mjd domi is just plain fail, sorry. but gurista have 120km+ missile range, so ur mjd setup, jump away and dont get damage , simply dosnt work with gurista missions... |
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Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
177
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mater Otomeya wrote: I would try semi-afking a drone ship...
Found your problem...
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Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seth Mortis wrote:going against guristas with a mjd domi is just plain fail, sorry. but gurista have 120km+ missile range, so ur mjd setup, jump away and dont get damage , simply dosnt work with gurista missions...
Ah so drone boat only suited for missions with shorter range rats |
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
230
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Forget tengu get 2 RR domis. Drones will get aggroed as you said. Shouldn't be a problem though. Afking is a thing of the past. |
Hevymetal
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
102
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
News Flash:
New NPC AI requires new tactics.
And yes the Domi used to be a good ship for missions. Now not so much. |
Seth Mortis
Lone Walker Corp
2
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Posted - 2013.07.21 23:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:Seth Mortis wrote:going against guristas with a mjd domi is just plain fail, sorry. but gurista have 120km+ missile range, so ur mjd setup, jump away and dont get damage , simply dosnt work with gurista missions... Ah so drone boat only suited for missions with shorter range rats
the domi IS suited to go against guristas. BUT the mjd is supposed to get enogh r ange so u dont get any damage from npc ships or very reduced. and against guristas this is simply not the case. WHICH WHY u simply dont use mjd against guristas |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3901
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Posted - 2013.07.22 00:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
For every general rule there is an exception.
Try this: fit a medium shield or armour transfer to your Tengu. Orbit the Dominix, remote rep the Dominix. Who gets aggro now? What if you use a small remote rep?
The Assault is a terrible mission, and any mission against Guristas is terrible. Thus the Assault versus Guristas is a masochists's wet dream, "dear game," wishes the Masochist, "make my missions so hard that I will never complete them!"
I have found that a two-Domi remote rep setup will result in the Dominixes taking all the aggro while the drones are ignored. Just set up the cap chain first. When one Domi gets jammed, continue to transfer some cap but focus on keeping the remote reps going, since the jammed Domi is going to be taking all the damage. You will only need a civilian weapon of any type to trigger the two flights of drones to attack, and you will certainly want to pick your missions to avoid high DPS long range NPCs such as Guristas.
Of course there is always the option of flying a second Tengu, but that requires a significant amount of babysitting. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Evei Shard
218
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Posted - 2013.07.22 01:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've tried a MJD Domi in The Assault. It was pretty obvious quite quickly in the first room that it was not going to do well. Grabbed my Tengu, and cleaned up the rest of the mission.
Maybe it's because my skills with the Tengu are a lot better, but that one mission in particular is a challenge with it for me. There are a few though that the Domi does just beautiful on.
End result, it's likely that there is no one-ship-fits-all for missions. Just like ammo, you need to choose your ship. Profit favors the prepared |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing
814
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Posted - 2013.07.22 02:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mater Otomeya wrote:Why does everyone say that the Dominix is a great AFK ship?
...um...they don't anymore...AI changes mean afk domi is no longer viable and hasn't been for some time. Good, imo.
I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
715
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Posted - 2013.07.22 02:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
1. No mission ship is an AFK ship since 2 expansions ago. 2. Domi and Tengu are great combo but no need to MJD domi for that setup. You orbit the Domi with the Tengu and assist the Tengu with the drones. 3. You have to manage the agro on the assault unless you want 2500 DPS on you.
That's probably one of the most fun tandem builds I've run, and very easy to manage even without ISBoxer. You are making it harder than it has to be with bad agro and the MJD. Eve is Real |
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
8
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Posted - 2013.07.22 03:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
****, now CCP will claim "working as intended" for their anti-afk measures. |
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ImmutableDark
State Protectorate Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2013.07.22 04:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Care bear problems. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3114
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 04:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
No one in their right mind would/should choose to do Guristas missions in an already boring pve scenario. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1578
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Apparently OP missed the memo on the Great Drone Nerf a few months back. Ammatar - Matari by blood, Ammarian by the Grace of God. |
masternerdguy
nul-li-fy Nulli Secunda
1246
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Apparently OP missed the memo on the Great Drone Nerf a few months back.
They nerfed domis? We've been kicking goons to the curb with domis! Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
982
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 06:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:Apparently OP missed the memo on the Great Drone Nerf a few months back. They nerfed domis? We've been kicking goons to the curb with domis! NPC AI is more effective against domis than goons are. |
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
I guess that I have been fed a good deal of outdated information, then. I ran Stop the Thief just now after taking some of the advice here, and it went smoother, but still not as planned. I was not aware that you could set drones to assist, as I dont fly drone boats normally, nor do I typically assist an alt in mission running. So thank you for that, as it made life quite a bit easier. Now my only problem is that the Dominix is an agro magnet. Due to this, I still find the MJD to have a decent use. Stop the Thief didnt have any/much missile action, so I was able to successfully range tank that mission. However, being that I run missions for the Caldari Navy, and the Tengu is well suited for taking down Guristas quickly, I am not willing to give up the Gurista missions.
The only plus here is that the Dominix pulls so much agro that I might be able to put a larger tank on it (remove an Omni or the MJD for a cap booster, and take off a DDA for an additional hardener) and then remove most of the tank from the Tengu, freeing up slots for TPs, which would also allow me to remove my Flare rigs, and put in rigs for more DPS instead... But I have a feeling that I should have just gone with a Rattlesnake, tanked the hell out of it, and used FOF Cruises... |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
8703
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 07:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
tl;dr drugs are bad k? You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3906
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 07:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mater Otomeya wrote:The only plus here is that the Dominix pulls so much agro that I might be able to put a larger tank on it (remove an Omni or the MJD for a cap booster, and take off a DDA for an additional hardener) and then remove most of the tank from the Tengu, freeing up slots for TPs, which would also allow me to remove my Flare rigs, and put in rigs for more DPS instead... But I have a feeling that I should have just gone with a Rattlesnake, tanked the hell out of it, and used FOF Cruises...
I fly a Huginn in partnership with one or two Domis. The Domi has the clear advantage of tracking and range over the Rattlesnake, even with a decent tank. For The Assault, you might want to consider flying two RR T2 sentry Domis instead of Domi + Tengu/Huginn. That is one of the missions where I fly two Domis with a Huginn, simply because the amount of incoming damage is too much for a T2 Domi to tank on its own. You might get a better tank by using better modules, but then you are setting yourself up as a pi+¦ata for some wascly piwate. The again, I am the one flying a dual fed web Huginn.
Other than a Tengu ormHuginn, you could use a Loki as the "forward observer" with the webifier subsystem. I haven't used this setup myself: the Huginn is good enough. Well, was good enough, until I hit a rock warping into Vengeance and bounced right into a pack of NPCs who blew me up before the Domis could lock me.
Which is why I am considering switching to a dual Domi setup, switching to web drones + light drones for the small stuff that gets under the sentry drones. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
383
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Posted - 2013.07.22 07:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mater Otomeya wrote: The Dominix is far from a semi-AFK ship, and I dont get why people suggest it as such. Especially not as a second ship for mission running...
Post your fit.
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Mater Otomeya
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
1
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Posted - 2013.07.22 07:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
For The Assault, I might just put the Tengu in solo, as I have done it tons of time, and it just speed tanks the place. The alt has almost no missile skills, which is why I didnt go Rattlesnake, and why I dont really want to try to get him into a Tengu. The part that sucks is that he could fly a Legion, but I have a very strong feeling that he wont be as lucky as the Tengu. But if I go with a very high kin/therm tank on the Domi, and fit a cap booster with the LAR, he might tank well enough to use him, but the downside is that there was constant drone agro. |
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