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Forums Bot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.22 02:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
People often complain about hard to find good PvP fights in Eve because there is no mechanism to ensure fair fights. CCP should create such a mechanism to make PvP activities easily available and fun. It is quite simple to do so. For example a PvP flag can be added to the status of a fleet. The number of ships in the fleet can be 1, 5, or 10. The FC can turn on the flag and start fleet roaming. If two such fleets with same ship count get close enough, they are then warped to a location and fighting starts. At this point, no other ships are allowed to land on the same grid to ensure fair fights. I am sure if CCP wants to implement such a mechanism they'll come up with a far better design. |
Irrulam
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.07.22 02:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Short answer: No
Medium answer: No way in hell
Long answer:
One of the core principles of the game is the absence of hard coded exclusion. With a few minor exceptions (capitals in hisec, alliance tournament practice server, ship class gates in anoms/plexes), you can access any part of the game at any time, albeit with consequences.
This sort of arena PvP will never be hardcoded for TQ, as the ability to interfere with someone else's business (in space) is one of the most important aspects of EVE as an MMO.
If you want to set up 1 on 1s, 5 on 5s or X vs X, go ahead. If you don't want interference, find an empty system on Singularity. Asking for it on TQ is a fool's errand. |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1409
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Posted - 2013.07.22 03:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Brace for impact... You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
2083
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Posted - 2013.07.22 05:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Forum alt... check.
I gather the main of the OP got reamed by a larger fleet. Which is why he is posting this drivel.
On a side note I was griefed yesterday in local by a 7 Man fleet of Battleships, BC's and T2 frigs. So I undocked and killed 5 them and 2 ran.
You want to take that away from me? Go away. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
masternerdguy
nul-li-fy Nulli Secunda
1246
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Posted - 2013.07.22 05:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:I'm too antisocial to make friends
Fixed.
Friendship is magic. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1861
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
you are basically asking for arena warfare. There is no such thing on TQ but players who wanted that created it on the test server.
http://syndicatecl.com eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
767
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Posted - 2013.07.22 07:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is no such thing as fair in eve (love, war etc...). You can counter large fleets of casuals with a well prepared and freaking expensive small fleet of Nerds...fair enough?
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Forums Bot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
To summarize your responses:
1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.
2. It'll disrupt your current activities.
3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.
Here is my answer:
1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason. I don't believe designers do so to make their games worse. To the contrary, I think it's a good idea. The on-going alliance tourny is in this format. Why not make it available to all players? One of the problems of arena design is that the fights don't start naturally. That's why I suggest roaming to find such fights.
2. It won't disrupt your current activities. When you are in such a roaming fleets, you can still do whatever you are normally doing. The only difference is that occasionally you will encounter fleets of your equal and fight them without interference. If you are so leet, you can still solo kill such a fleet when you catch it.
3. I don't know why you are so cynical. The only thing I can tell you is as in the 20 vs 5 sceniario, I neither want to be in the fleet of 20 nor 5. Maybe I can find fun with a fleet of 5 to beat 20, but I don't think it'll happen often. I most definitely will not have fun in a fleet of 20 to beat 5.
Ultimately the decision is CCP's to make. Eve is not a popular game. 500 subs is really not that much if you consider every player who is seriously play the game has multiple accounts (I am a new player and I have 3 accounts). That's why they are trying to make the game more accessible and fun for new players. This idea could be a step towards that goal.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15679
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
No.
If you want something like that, go arrange it yourself. Locking space off is pretty much antithetical to EVE's design. It's also open to massive abuse.
Whether other games do it is irrelevant, because EVE is not those games, and they most certainly aren't EVE. That's probably why EVE is one of the more popular MMOs on the market, and why it has survived the death-spirals that all the wow-likes have succumbed to. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
230
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:To summarize your responses:
1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.
2. It'll disrupt your current activities.
3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.
Here is my answer:
1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason.
... waaah!
Please don't use comparisons to other MMOs |
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
208
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:To summarize your responses:
1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.
2. It'll disrupt your current activities.
3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.
Here is my answer:
1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason. I don't believe designers do so to make their games worse. To the contrary, I think it's a good idea. The on-going alliance tourny is in this format. Why not make it available to all players? One of the problems of arena design is that the fights don't start naturally. That's why I suggest roaming to find such fights.
2. It won't disrupt your current activities. When you are in such a roaming fleets, you can still do whatever you are normally doing. The only difference is that occasionally you will encounter fleets of your equal and fight them without interference. If you are so leet, you can still solo kill such a fleet when you catch it.
3. I don't know why you are so cynical. The only thing I can tell you is as in the 20 vs 5 sceniario, I neither want to be in the fleet of 20 nor 5. Maybe I can find fun with a fleet of 5 to beat 20, but I don't think it'll happen often. I most definitely will not have fun in a fleet of 20 to beat 5.
Ultimately the decision is CCP's to make. Eve is not a popular game. 500 subs is really not that much if you consider every player who is seriously play the game has multiple accounts (I am a new player and I have 3 accounts). That's why they are trying to make the game more accessible and fun for new players. This idea could be a step towards that goal.
1. EVE is like most MMOs and that's good. Arena PvP is restricted PvP, which there isn't and should never be in EVE. Escalating fights are what cause things like the battle of Asakai. We like the unique flavor of EVE and want it to stay unique.
2. It SHOULD disrupt you though. You should have to make an active choice to either engage in PvP or do your other stuff. It shouldn't be something you just queue jump into like WoW battlegrounds. Again, this is due to the unique style of EVE
3. I've seen fleets of 5 rip fleets of 20+ to pieces. The only way this would be balanced is to put in point limits like the alliance tournament, but then the whole system would become elitist anyway and you'd still have problems. A massive alliance could afford to squeeze the most amount of performance out of their ships using faction and officer mods to ensure they get a victory, and guys like you that just want to roam around wouldn;t be able to afford to keep up. Again using WoW as a reference, this is like when you first join battlegrounds, and everyone has all the PvP gear and beats you down in a hit or two. The difference here is that in EVE if you lose, you'd lose your ships and gain nothing, while in WoW, even if you lose, you win.
In short its too restrictive to add to a sandbox like eve, and would completely separate itself from the rest of the game. You could however look into red vs blue. They arrange arena fights with each other all the time, and is pretty much the player built example of what you are asking for. Alternatively, you are free to design your own corp based around arena PvP, with leaderboards, prizes and medals. As always in EVE its what YOU make that counts.
EDIT: Oh and CCP don't really care if you are 3 players or 1 player with 3 accounts, they get paid all the same. The loss of their existing player base if they were to implement game changing mechanics like this would be too costly for the few new players it may or may not bring in. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
115
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
lol no |
baltec1
Bat Country
7312
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:
1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason
That reason is because they are WoW clones.
EVE is not that kind of MMO. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
18
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would like some way of fair fights.
While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players. |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
2085
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I would like some way of fair fights.
While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.
You again with your tech 2 nonsense. Can't wait to hear you cry when you meet a falcon. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
115
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I would like some way of fair fights.
While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.
It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items...
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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
18
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Naes Mlahrend wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:I would like some way of fair fights.
While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players. It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items...
its going to take me 9 days to train light missiles to level 5 from level 4. Is that considered short for low sp players? |
forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
48
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
The only way you get fair and even fites is when pvp'ng is free and 1 side decides too |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
2086
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Naes Mlahrend wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:I would like some way of fair fights.
While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players. It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items... its going to take me 9 days to train light missiles to level 5 from level 4. Is that considered short for low sp players?
If you think that is long wait till you get to those 30 day - 90 day skills to go from lvl4 to lvl5
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Forums Bot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Let me just point out some of logical holes in your counter arguments.
1. It will completely change the game for worse that will lead the game to a death spiral. Well as all other activities in Eve, you have the right to not participate in it. Why not let people who want to have fair fights to have it? I would be happy if 1/20 of the population would find fun in it. Well what if more people start to doing it? Well that makes this idea even better wouldn't you say so?
2. Rich alliances will pour resources to dominate new players. Well, since fleets have to roam to find fights, doing so will risk the fleet to be destroyed by a much large force and lose all the expensive stuff. Isn't it the wet dream comes true scenario for some people who are looking for shinny kill mails?
3. All of a sudden people start to accusing me of comparing Eve to other games. Well if you read my original post, I did not do so until others brought arena into the argument. So I made my counter argument.
4. CCP doesn't care how many accounts each player has because they make money either way. Well I think they do care. It is not sustainable to grow subscriptions by only forcing people to add more accounts. I think it is in their business interest to grow player base.
5. CCP is afraid of losing vets to gain new players. No they don't. If they somehow can find a way to start retaining new players, the number they gain will far exceed the the entire current player base which is probably around 200k give or take. Compared to on-the-death-role" WoW's 8 million, this is nothing at all. If EvE can attractive just 10% of people who are leaving WoW, it'll then be the popular game you are claiming it to be.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7312
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Every MMO that has added Arena PVP has ended up with PVP everywhere outside of the arena die off. |
Tron 3K
Three Thousand Industries
15
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yes since WoW has this mechanism that means we must have it here.. Can we get also bright colors and I want a Mohawk Nightelf too! *******! Do it! |
Willie Horton
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:
1. It will completely change the game for worse that will lead the game to a death spiral. Well as all other activities in Eve, you have the right to not participate in it. Why not let people who want to have fair fights to have it? I would be happy if 1/20 of the population would find fun in it. Well what if more people start to doing it? Well that makes this idea even better wouldn't you say so?
4. CCP doesn't care how many accounts each player has because they make money either way. Well I think they do care. It is not sustainable to grow subscriptions by only forcing people to add more accounts. I think it is in their business interest to grow player base.
5. CCP is afraid of losing vets to gain new players. No they don't. If they somehow can find a way to start retaining new players, the number they gain will far exceed the the entire current player base which is probably around 200k give or take. Compared to on-the-death-role" WoW's 8 million, this is nothing at all. If EvE can attractive just 10% of people who are leaving WoW, it'll then be the popular game you are claiming it to be.
It will change game from worse for you ,not for others .In sandbox what is good for you is almost never good for other side.
Who is forcing you to make new account ?Also game works like this for ten years and together with Blizzard MMO it is only sub based that is still on market.So what is not working there for CCP?
You cant stop player leaving game after some time.It is normal to make breaks and to feel you are lacking goals in some game if you are veteran. EvE is not game for any kind of player.Do you really think game will be better if we would have like 5 mil players ?This game is for niche part of MMO player base,and it was like that from start .That is what is making EvE so special.You cant play it like other games. EVE as it is now will never attract player from theme park MMOs,some of them will stay and like it ,but in most cases they will not play EvE.Death penalty in EVE is to much for majority of those players .
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2409
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Posted - 2013.07.22 12:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote: I am sure if CCP wants to implement such a mechanism they'll come up with a far better design.
You're right, IF they wanted to, they could.
But they don't want to - it's antithetical to open world sandbox games like EVE, and thwarts emergent gameplay.
/thread
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
208
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Posted - 2013.07.22 13:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Forums Bot wrote:2. Rich alliances will pour resources to dominate new players. Well, since fleets have to roam to find fights, doing so will risk the fleet to be destroyed by a much large force and lose all the expensive stuff. Isn't it the wet dream comes true scenario for some people who are looking for shinny kill mails? Back up a sec. I thought the whole idea of your suggestion was to stop these power differences. The big alliance would simply join the arena then safely roam about in high sec like you are until you got paired and warped to an arena to fight. They wouldn't be fitting up bling ships for a regular roam in null.
It doesn't fit in EVE, so it won't get done. You basically want a change to the very definition of what EVE is, and for what? So that some WoW players rage quitting WoW will come here? No thanks. I'll stick with the stable population we currently have.
In your idea you make no mention of how fleets will be matched up, numbers isnt a good enough metric. When you have a well thought out idea that doesn't break the spirit of EVE and is more than "yeah, make an arena!" then feel free to post it in the place this belongs - Features & Ideas Discussion.
Oh and CCP are afraid of losing Vets. Otherwise they wouldn't have backed out the aurum changes. EVE is marketed by what is done by players. without the vets, nothing would happen. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Cavalira
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
126
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
You know 90% (if not 99%) of all FC's tend to go for smaller gangs than themselves. Why would one of these :riskaverse: FCs sign up his fleet? |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Irrulam wrote: interfere with someone else's business (in space) is one of the most important aspects of EVE
Nerf High Sec I say.
Wait this is a sandbox.
Oh yea, and how is this "interfering" with someone's game? When two mutual party's are wanting a 10v10 fleet battle
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2408
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
These "brilliant idea" people are crawling out of the wood work this week.
If their ideas were any good, why wouldn't they be game makers making money off of it? I know I would. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:"brilliant idea"
Toasting to Guinness .... cheers. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
832
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Posted - 2013.07.22 20:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't like the specifics of the your proposal, but the idea of allowing fleets seeking quick/improtu fights to advertise that they are looking for a fight is interesting.
A dedicated "Fleet Fights" chat where fleets looking to quick and impromptu fights can advertise their location and composition could be one way of doing it, but this would be bait for trickery though...
... perhaps an 'Enemy Fleet Finder' option which fleets toggle on to broadcast their composition for similar fleets to see and then seek them and engage.
There's promise here if it can be fleshed out a bit.
yk |
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