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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
50
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a request to respectfully leave T3 Strategic Cruisers as is. They're expensive, require a specific (non-transferable) skill set and are already penalized with the loss of skill points when one is lost. With the removal from 3/4 complexes they're now relegated to mission-running and wormhole operations. Yes, they're op - they're supposed to be. There are worthier projects: Marauders, Black Ops and Pirate Factions, to name a few. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
239
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This is a request to respectfully leave T3 Strategic Cruisers as is. They're expensive, require a specific (non-transferable) skill set and are already penalized with the loss of skill points when one is lost. With the removal from 3/4 complexes they're now relegated to mission-running and wormhole operations. Yes, they're op - they're supposed to be. There are worthier projects: Marauders, Black Ops and Pirate Factions, to name a few.
Considering their stated intents, all these worthier projects are to be tackled before they get to T3. And thereafter, I'd be suprised if they didn't do a balance pass on T3 cruisers. As they should. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats The Initiative.
1375
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
I love these threads. I'll start the bidding with NO! Oh god. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5500
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
How do you expect CCP to leave them alone, when even you admit they're OP. Saying it's ok because it's achieved by paying a high price hasn't worked for anyone in the history of EVE balancing, but feel free to keep trying it. That said T3s won't be touched until all the ship classes they're directly competing with are balanced, so don't expect any major changes in he short term. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8441
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This is a request to respectfully leave T3 Strategic Cruisers as is. They're expensive, require a specific (non-transferable) skill set and are already penalized with the loss of skill points when one is lost. With the removal from 3/4 complexes they're now relegated to mission-running and wormhole operations. Yes, they're op - they're supposed to be. There are worthier projects: Marauders, Black Ops and Pirate Factions, to name a few.
1) T3s aren't expensive, you can fully fit a T3 for much less than a billion. 2) T3s had no business in your 3/10s and 4/10s, their use for those sites were completely edging out newer players by leaps and bounds. 3) T3s have far more uses than mission running and wormholes and you'd know this if you bothered to peek outside of your hisec bubble. 4) Blops BSes have been heavily rebalanced, pirate faction ships are not currently in a bad state save for Sansha hulls and perhaps Blood Raiders, and marauders fill their intended roles just fine. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
257
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Andski wrote: 4) Blops BSes have been heavily rebalanced, pirate faction ships are not currently in a bad state save for Sansha hulls and perhaps Blood Raiders, and marauders fill their intended roles just fine.
BlOps haven't been rebalanced. Only their jump ranges and fuel consumption adjusted. Marauders were designed to operate solo behind enemy lines killing stuff. I have never seen or heard of a Marauder do that. Marauders are pretty much in need of a rebalance. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Fiorentina DiCateratta
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
1) T3s aren't expensive, you can fully fit a T3 for much less than a billion.
And CCP moaned they still cost too much and wanted them to be chaeper...
2) T3s had no business in your 3/10s and 4/10s, their use for those sites were completely edging out newer players by leaps and bounds.
You can't. Since Odyessy they've been prevented from getting into 3-4/0's, a 'NEW' player going into a 4/10 would loose their ship ayway
3) T3s have far more uses than mission running and wormholes and you'd know this if you bothered to peek outside of your hisec bubble.
Like every other ship
4) Blops BSes have been heavily rebalanced, pirate faction ships are not currently in a bad state save for Sansha hulls and perhaps Blood Raiders, and marauders fill their intended roles just fine.
Marauders are misson ships end of, and their not even very good at that now. They have a useless bonus since the Noctis, are frequently replaced by faction battleships. Pirate Faction BS's will probably be nerfed next.
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Cavalira
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
128
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leave Britney alone.... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2071
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Posted - 2013.07.22 16:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
The T3 subsystems are hilariously out of balance and if you don't see this you're bad and should feel bad. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
51
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The T3 subsystems are hilariously out of balance and if you don't see this you're bad and should feel bad.
You've obviously never tried the Covert Ops on a Tengu... |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
878
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
No. T3 subsystems need alot of nerfing. The Tears Must Flow |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
102
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Meh, I'm just using my fly catcher for 3/4's now. About 150 dps less but I can still edge out the newbies and would be plex runners. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1350
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 17:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:The T3 subsystems are hilariously out of balance and if you don't see this you're bad and should feel bad. You've obviously never tried the Covert Ops on a Tengu...
That's sort of what he means by "hilariously out of balance" you know. Some of the subsystem configurations are ridiculously good and give you ships far superior to the alternatives, and some of them are really bad and give you ships decidedly inferior to the alternatives. That's poor balance. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
51
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
mynnna wrote:That's sort of what he means by "hilariously out of balance" you know. Some of the subsystem configurations are ridiculously good and give you ships far superior to the alternatives, and some of them are really bad and give you ships decidedly inferior to the alternatives. That's poor balance.
You take the good with the bad. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band
753
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
I can fly a t3, and I disagree with you there are certain subsystem configurations that give too much benefit over specialised T2 ships
eg .. Tengu v's Cerberus
as a T3 pilot you should know all about their multirole versality and that versatility should come at a price currently it doesnt
there's a devblog somewhere with a graphic that shows the future t1, t2, t3 power-ratio find it, look at it, and get used to the idea now. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4378
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:mynnna wrote:That's sort of what he means by "hilariously out of balance" you know. Some of the subsystem configurations are ridiculously good and give you ships far superior to the alternatives, and some of them are really bad and give you ships decidedly inferior to the alternatives. That's poor balance. You take the good with the bad. Not when both are unacceptable.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2071
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:mynnna wrote:That's sort of what he means by "hilariously out of balance" you know. Some of the subsystem configurations are ridiculously good and give you ships far superior to the alternatives, and some of them are really bad and give you ships decidedly inferior to the alternatives. That's poor balance. You take the good with the bad. No, you just fit the good options and ignore the bad, until you end up with the situation we have today where there's essentially only one or two ways to fit each T3 and a massive pile of useless subsystems piled up in Jita. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
53
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Until you've rebalanced HACs, Black Ops, Marauders and Pirate Faction - T3 rebalancing is moot. And that was my point. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats The Initiative.
1375
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Until you've rebalanced HACs, Black Ops, Marauders and Pirate Faction - T3 rebalancing is moot. And that was my point. What? What do T2 BSes and pirate ships have to do with this?
Oh god. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1628
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Unless T3s can effectively be made to operate as they're intended, ergo being mellifluous and so being able to change format in a way that is not bound to a station (such as being able to switch between two configurations and fits whilst in space) then there is no real justification for making such an isk and SP-intensive ship line weaker than its T2 counterparts, despite the fact that it sorely needs to be. Therefore, in the sense of nerfing T3s, I agree with the OP in that it should not happen. They need to be changed entirely or not at all. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
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Prototype Delta
Prototype Research and Technologies
4
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
They need to be balanced but not nerfed hard. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats The Initiative.
1375
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 17:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Prototype Delta wrote:They need to be balanced but not nerfed hard. A little bit hard. Oh god. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1628
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 17:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Prototype Delta wrote:They need to be balanced but not nerfed hard. A little bit hard.
Or not hard. Y'know. Because 3 > 2. Alternatively you could make them something new, which is what an improvement in tech level would suggest. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
126
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh look, that thread again.
T3 should and must be nerfed hard. -25 to 33% in their EHP would be a good start. Every one seems to agree that the legion is the "worst" T3 of all and it is OP. A T3 should be versatile and not be able to have the same EHP than a command ship or battleship with the agility and speed of a cruiser. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats The Initiative.
1375
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:make them something new, which is what an improvement in tech level would suggest. They are being made into something new. When they are rebalanced, I'm sure their roles will be suitably different and improved. Oh god. |
illirdor
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
53
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Yes, they're op - they're supposed to be
Well nothing is suppose to be OP.. thats the meaning of Overpowered.
ElQuirko wrote:Because 3 > 2.
Well this is EvE not math so it doesn't work that way. They are suppose to be more versatile and t2 is suppose to be more specialized.
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1162
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The T3 subsystems are hilariously out of balance and if you don't see this you're bad and should feel bad.
wtf i am finding myself agree more and more with goons now a days :( There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
160
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Posted - 2013.07.22 17:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:How do you expect CCP to leave them alone, when even you admit they're OP. Saying it's ok because it's achieved by paying a high price hasn't worked for anyone in the history of EVE balancing, but feel free to keep trying it. That said T3s won't be touched until all the ship classes they're directly competing with are balanced, so don't expect any major changes in the short term. except for the command subsystems, maybe
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
56
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Posted - 2013.07.22 18:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
illirdor wrote:Well nothing is suppose to be OP.. thats the meaning of Overpowered.
There was a HAC/T3 cost-benefit comparison in the HAC rebalance thread, so for the price - they're not Op. I'm fine with some revised roles, but I'm not interested in seeing T3s strictly because other classes need adjustments. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1162
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Posted - 2013.07.22 18:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
again we need to define what is a tech III ship and what its supposed to be for.... Before they actually hit the game i always wanted my corps version of a ship... Simply i wanted to design a ship for me. if i wanted 10% to optimal range and fall off i should have that right.
to me that is what tech III should be... not better then tech I or tech II but designed by you.
you were supposed to get this but ccp reduced from 5 versions of each sub system to 4 and only made one per sub system even worth fitting... so in the end you are left with a ship that is way better then either tech I or II without any selection for how the ship will look and feel.
this is the fix that needs to be put to make Tech III what they are supposed to be. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
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