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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lee Hekard
Photon Scorpions
18
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN!
I'm a dot com millionaire so I got dollars I don't even know what to do with. What, because I worked hard and built up my online empire I don't deserve to be a badass? Pay to win, and if you can't afford it, stay the f-uck off my grid yo. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
535
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lee Hekard wrote:PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN!
I'm a dot com millionaire so I got dollars I don't even know what to do with. What, because I worked hard and built up my online empire I don't deserve to be a badass? Pay to win, and if you can't afford it, stay the f-uck off my grid yo.
if you're that ritch and willing to trade game currency fr real one I have a lot of bucks from Monopoly game to sell for real $$ :)
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3125
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tristan Everness wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:Tristan Everness wrote: Well, since you promote aurum is legit to say that you think a God's Coldbloods Vindicator are expensive as a pair of pants in the market. See what I did there?
I was referring to you calling something as brutally efficient at killing people as 'fluff' as clothes. So I did not see what you did there. Sura Sadiva wrote: Is not the same, not even close.
Even the same identical item sold on NEX store and on the player driven system:
The item from player driven economy: Someone have to be gather reources, reprocess, obtaining blueprint, use the industr to build it, hauling it on a market hub... and so on. And having the proper skills trained to do this. Is a player driven process, requires and create gameplay.
Same item from NEX store: Bypass everything and is created on the market. From nowhere. No gameplay related to it.
That is why they are called vanity items. They do not affect anyone's gameplay. I don't use them at all, but if people want to buy it and in the process give money to CCP for an item that is going to add nothing to core gameplay, more power to them. What if i'm an industrialist? They're using Clothes to make money, preventing people to develop gameplay. Killin stuff is not the Core, the core is doing whatever you like, i'm glad there isn't stuff on the Nex preventing you to having fun, even if it's not how I play the game. Why are you so close minded in regards of different approaches to the game?
Lol, what? I said core gameplay. I didn't just mean shooting. NEX Items don't affect ANY sort of gameplay. 'Don't like them, don't buy them' is fine with me, as long as it doesn't give anyone an advantage. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
535
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bienator II wrote: the jita riot wasn't about pants, it was about the risk of having gold ammo at some time in future. CCP wasn't able to say there will be no ships, ammo etc for $. Even though the monocle price is and was ridiculous it doesn't influence gameplay so most didn't care. It was about the overall future direction of eve.
Aye. But what is wrong is just the idea of selling game items for real currency. Pay to Win in MMORPG always start underground and always with "vanity items".
They wanted to introduce an item mall in EVE and they did. Despite any riot.
Today the infrasctructure (NEX store) and the system (Aurum) is there and is operative, and EVE playerbase is changing and is getting used to the item store idea (as we see in this thread too). Adding/changing the items to sell is easy...
The only way to be sure is nuking it.
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Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.07.24 14:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:
Lol, what? I said core gameplay. I didn't just mean shooting. NEX Items don't affect ANY sort of gameplay. 'Don't like them, don't buy them' is fine with me, as long as it doesn't give anyone an advantage.
Nex items don't affect gameplay, I agree. What about the Next Store?
Is production part of core gameplay? If yes, isn't the Nex Store affecting what could be a potential part of the game?
Why do you prefer micro-transactions instead of seeing the game expand?
Nex Store: We have indestructible clothes that you can buy for real money OR for hundreds/billions of isk.
Clothes Blueprint: We have destructible clothes, generates gamplay, pants won't be expensive as Carriers. Who like fluff **** is happy, who like industry is happy.
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Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
339
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
I wonder who cares. I remember when it was introduced to sell designer jeans. Monocles? Golden Pods? Whatever. Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,-á but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15720
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Since neither Aurum nor NEX even left the alpha stage, it could (and should) be safely removed and replaced with actual game content instead.
It amazes me to this day that they created a copy of the LP store that couldn't do even a tiny fraction of what the existing LP store could do, even though everything they needed was already in the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
589
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since neither Aurum nor NEX even left the alpha stage, it could (and should) be safely removed and replaced with actual game content instead.
It amazes me to this day that they created a copy of the LP store that couldn't do even a tiny fraction of what the existing LP store could do, even though everything they needed was already in the game.
I think they leave it as a reminder to themselves...
And in case anybody ever buys anything. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mirel Dystoph
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
75
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Q 5 wrote:It's an isk sink, I buy AUR tokens go to noble store buy a getup and vamoose varmint. No it's not. "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
129
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Posted - 2013.07.24 19:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
+1
In the past I used to look forward to things like customization (for ships, characters etc.) but now that there's AUR you can be sure ship customization will cost AUR, just like any other nice extra EVE might have to offer the players.
And yes, I know I don't have to pay for the AUR myself, I can most likely buy this stuff on the market with ISK. Thing is, I don't care. It's still not included in subscription payments which means people are paying for their subs and then some for the extra content (that should be included in the sub payment). A lot of people don't have a problem with this, I do.
If this isn't enough reason to hate AUR, there's always incarna which is nothing more than a soddy excuse to introduce AUR and microtransactions.
I love eve, I just hate the fact that we all pay a pretty good amount of money a month to play and it's just not enough for CCP. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
198
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Posted - 2013.07.24 19:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:I love eve, I just hate the fact that we all pay a pretty good amount of money a month to play and it's just not enough for CCP.
But it's enough to make FPS game on PS3. Rejoice. New CQ prototype |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
230
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Posted - 2013.07.24 19:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
I am happy to buy Nex items because I know CCP will never nerf my space pants but they might nerf that Tengu I was thinking of buying. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
719
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 19:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
It seems CCP is preparing EVE for possible F2P transition to compete with potentially successful Star Citizen (which sells $10-300 worth pixelships like hot cakes even before release) - or at least for more microtransactions-oriented business model: they hired a guy who said "I see world as microtransaction" so I doubt aurum will be removed. In fact I believe into exactly the opposite direction of EVE development.
TL;DR Not going to happen. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1869
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Posted - 2013.07.24 19:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Bienator II wrote: the jita riot wasn't about pants, it was about the risk of having gold ammo at some time in future. CCP wasn't able to say there will be no ships, ammo etc for $. Even though the monocle price is and was ridiculous it doesn't influence gameplay so most didn't care. It was about the overall future direction of eve.
Aye. But what is wrong is just the idea of selling game items for real currency. Pay to Win in MMORPG always start underground and always with "vanity items".
i can tell you. If i would be able to dock at any station buy items with cash out of thin air and fitt the ships immediately i would stop playing. Thats not eve thats the test server.
secondly the term pay 2 win is bullshit. I don't know a single game where it would apply. The question is F2P or not. And eve is a mix of F2P and a subscription model thanks to PLEX.. which is quite unique in the industry btw. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4388
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Posted - 2013.07.24 21:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Bienator II wrote: the jita riot wasn't about pants, it was about the risk of having gold ammo at some time in future. CCP wasn't able to say there will be no ships, ammo etc for $. Even though the monocle price is and was ridiculous it doesn't influence gameplay so most didn't care. It was about the overall future direction of eve.
Aye. But what is wrong is just the idea of selling game items for real currency. Pay to Win in MMORPG always start underground and always with "vanity items". i can tell you. If i would be able to dock at any station buy items with cash out of thin air and fitt the ships immediately i would stop playing. Thats not eve thats the test server. secondly the term pay 2 win is bullshit. I don't know a single game where it would apply. The question is F2P or not. And eve is a mix of F2P and a subscription model thanks to PLEX.. which is quite unique in the industry btw. We purchase many things that "appear from thin air" in EVE. Blue Prints come to mind immediately.
The difference is that "if" the concept of selling vanity only items for cash (and afterwards on the player driven market for ISK, just as PLEX are) continues it would be a lot more palatable if (like Blue Prints) those items could then also be used to contribute to the player driven economy... and were subject to destruction just like "most" other things in EVE.
In case I wasn't clear, AURUM serves in exactly the same capacity as PLEX does, just in a slightly more flexible format and without game time being involved. A perfectly valid case can be made for replacing AURUM with a modification of the PLEX system to allow for increased flexibility, and I'm fine with that. However there is nothing inherently wrong with offering vanity items available to be sold for cash directly (whether with AURUM or PLEX) as long as it ends up on the open market for ISK... and more importantly that it contribute to the economy.
In other words, don't sell paint jobs... sell the BP for that paint job so that someone can produce them for a living. Don't sell pants, sell the design for that pair of pants. Develop new industries, skills, and processes for the players to explore, customize, and make their own.
CCP can make their extra bit of cash (they deserve it), and we all end up with a richer game environment in the end. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
MacKael
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.24 21:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
but then what would dusties eat? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1871
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Posted - 2013.07.24 21:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: We purchase many things that "appear from thin air" in EVE. Blue Prints come to mind immediately.
The difference is that "if" the concept of selling vanity only items for cash (and afterwards on the player driven market for ISK, just as PLEX are) continues it would be a lot more palatable if (like Blue Prints) those items could then also be used to contribute to the player driven economy... and were subject to destruction just like "most" other things in EVE.
In case I wasn't clear, AURUM serves in exactly the same capacity as PLEX does, just in a slightly more flexible format and without game time being involved. A perfectly valid case can be made for replacing AURUM with a modification of the PLEX system to allow for increased flexibility, and I'm fine with that. However there is nothing inherently wrong with offering vanity items available to be sold for cash directly (whether with AURUM or PLEX) as long as it ends up on the open market for ISK... and more importantly that it contribute to the economy.
In other words, don't sell paint jobs... sell the BP for that paint job so that someone can produce them for a living. Don't sell pants, sell the design for that pair of pants. Develop new industries, skills, and processes for the players to explore, customize, and make their own.
CCP can make their extra bit of cash (they deserve it), and we all end up with a richer game environment in the end.
i agree, but the key word is "vanity". The next step would be pay for "convenience" which is already very dangerous in an universe like eve where unconvenience is a big part of the game (e.g. prices usually rise with every jump from the main tradehubs).
The failure of the AUR store was very predictable since introducing indestructible items to a economy just doesn't work. How many jeans would you need in RL if they would be indestructible, grow with you, clean itself and reappear at home in case of death?
they could have solved it all at once by creating fittings for jumpclones, handling implants, pants everything including as you suggested each pant would have been a "licensed run" of some form of blueprint instead of the one-time purchase. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4388
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Posted - 2013.07.24 22:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We purchase many things that "appear from thin air" in EVE. Blue Prints come to mind immediately.
The difference is that "if" the concept of selling vanity only items for cash (and afterwards on the player driven market for ISK, just as PLEX are) continues it would be a lot more palatable if (like Blue Prints) those items could then also be used to contribute to the player driven economy... and were subject to destruction just like "most" other things in EVE.
In case I wasn't clear, AURUM serves in exactly the same capacity as PLEX does, just in a slightly more flexible format and without game time being involved. A perfectly valid case can be made for replacing AURUM with a modification of the PLEX system to allow for increased flexibility, and I'm fine with that. However there is nothing inherently wrong with offering vanity items available to be sold for cash directly (whether with AURUM or PLEX) as long as it ends up on the open market for ISK... and more importantly that it contribute to the economy.
In other words, don't sell paint jobs... sell the BP for that paint job so that someone can produce them for a living. Don't sell pants, sell the design for that pair of pants. Develop new industries, skills, and processes for the players to explore, customize, and make their own.
CCP can make their extra bit of cash (they deserve it), and we all end up with a richer game environment in the end.
i agree, but the key word is "vanity". The next step would be pay for "convenience" which is already very dangerous in an universe like eve where unconvenience is a big part of the game (e.g. prices usually rise with every jump from the main tradehubs). The failure of the AUR store was very predictable since introducing indestructible items to a economy just doesn't work. How many jeans would you need in RL if they would be indestructible, grow with you, clean itself and reappear at home in case of death? they could have solved it all at once by creating fittings for jumpclones, handling implants, pants everything including as you suggested each pant would have been a "licensed run" of some form of blueprint instead of the one-time purchase. As gun shy as CCP is right now, I don't think we have to worry about them extending beyond vanity items. If they do it will be something the community will scrutinize with a microscope, and they know it.
We are fortunate in that implants and such that can speed up training times are already in place and viable within the EVE economy, so that shouldn't be a temptation for them (although obviously many people spend cash for them even today, via PLEX purchases converted to ISK).
All AURUM is in essence is a way to break a PLEX down into more manageable pieces, and all the NEX store boils down to is an outlet for people to buy a select group of items that is introduced to the economy via a direct money purchase initially... which is fine as long as it remains restricted to vanity items and becomes available for ISK as well (just as PLEX do).
The failure of the system is it's inability to fuel the player base industrial needs (providing new industries), and the fact that these are currently indestructible items that command a disproportionately large price.
If these items added value to player based industry, and were destructible (and at a much lower price point, as most are now) it would be a valuable addition to the game... fit better with the DUST economy and eventual economic cross over with EVE... and still make CCP some extra bank for creating bling (from the people that want bling, and cost those who don't nothing).
Since people have a bad taste in their mouth for the word AURUM it probably IS in their best interest to find another way of breaking PLEX down into manageable amounts... and only charging (initially) for the ability to make those items instead of for the items themselves. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
721
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Posted - 2013.07.24 23:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Yeh the Aurum items are almost exclusivly the art department, i dont think it takes too much time away from other projects if at all.
HD texture pack?
New ship designs?
Old ship re-designs?
Yeah, I'd rather have the art team working on fake clothes instead. |
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote: HD texture pack?
New ship designs?
Old ship re-designs?
Yeah, I'd rather have the art team working on fake clothes instead.
I'm really looking forward to see what the I-Don't-Care-About-Vanity people is going to say if CCP is going to introduce Aurum for HD Textures, New Ship Design and Old Ship re-design.
Fake clothes, used by Fake Avatars fighting Real wars in Real Internet Spaceships, make sense. |
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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
200
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tristan Everness wrote:What about removing the aurum?
Meh. Let it wither on the vine, much like the CQ. It would actually take more effort to remove it than it would to simply ignore it.
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Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
131
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Plastic Psycho wrote:Tristan Everness wrote:What about removing the aurum?
Meh. Let it wither on the vine, much like the CQ. It would actually take more effort to remove it than it would to simply ignore it.
If I had a withering tumor in my body, I would still want it removed. Cancer is still cancer. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4391
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Icarus Able wrote:Yeh the Aurum items are almost exclusivly the art department, i dont think it takes too much time away from other projects if at all. HD texture pack? New ship designs? Old ship re-designs? Yeah, I'd rather have the art team working on fake clothes instead. The clothing designs were done by an outside source. While some work to implement them is done by CCP, the tiny trickle of items integrated and released would not appear to have a huge impact on other projects. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4391
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tristan Everness wrote:Diesel47 wrote: HD texture pack?
New ship designs?
Old ship re-designs?
Yeah, I'd rather have the art team working on fake clothes instead.
I'm really looking forward to see what the I-Don't-Care-About-Vanity people is going to say if CCP is going to introduce Aurum for HD Textures, New Ship Design and Old Ship re-design. Fake clothes, used by Fake Avatars fighting Real wars in Real Internet Spaceships, make sense. You have a vivid imagination, I'll give you that.
But imaginary what if's to not constitute valid concerns.
None of what you just suggested is remotely close to a "Vanity Item" except, possibly, an optional HD texture pack... and even in that case charging to get it (if it ever actually becomes available) has never been suggested... ever. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
200
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Posted - 2013.07.25 16:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Plastic Psycho wrote:Tristan Everness wrote:What about removing the aurum?
Meh. Let it wither on the vine, much like the CQ. It would actually take more effort to remove it than it would to simply ignore it. If I had a withering tumor in my body, I would still want it removed. Cancer is still cancer. Not correct analogy. If you had an encystment, and it's not doing active harm, and the surgery to remove it would compete with or complicate other, more urgent surgeries, which would you take? |
Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mors Magne wrote:You are wrong. Aurum does affect gameplay because devs are using their time to make Aurum items when they could be making Eve into a better game instead.
'cause the part-time artist making a new T-shirt is totally also the developer who would be coding new features for the game.
It's 2013, you should know more than this about how basic software development works. It's not even specific to games. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
514
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Remove aurum, it's a token of a revolved past where a few people though that EVE playerbase were milk cows. G££ <= Me |
Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Remove aurum, it's a token of a revolved past where a few people though that EVE playerbase were milk cows.
Translation: Remove AUR 'cause I don't use it and honestly believe the universe revolves around me and my personal desires.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2048
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:44:00 -
[59] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:Mors Magne wrote:You are wrong. Aurum does affect gameplay because devs are using their time to make Aurum items when they could be making Eve into a better game instead. 'cause the part-time artist making a new T-shirt is totally also the developer who would be coding new features for the game. It's 2013, you should know more than this about how basic software development works. It's not even specific to games. There are alot of players who feel making Aurum items does make eve a better game.
On the other side, the money used to hire that part time artist could have instead been used to hire someone else to work on a different part of the game. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2013.07.25 18:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:Altrue wrote:Remove aurum, it's a token of a revolved past where a few people though that EVE playerbase were milk cows. Translation: Remove AUR 'cause I don't use it and honestly believe the universe revolves around me and my personal desires.
I don't think there's someone who actually enjoy the Nex Store, we're not talking about removing the Items, but the system that makes you pay with real money for it. I can't believe that someone prefer the Aurum rather tham a player driven industry for clothes. Same items, but more accessible and with proper gameplay behind it. |
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