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Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.25 01:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Freighters' "primary" skill prerequisites are completely contained in the "secondary" prerequisites, and the image used in the Odyssey dev blog shows this was already the case before the last expansion:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/64158/1/SkillFreighter.jpg
Is this a left-over from some older patch (that never got cleaned up properly), or is there some situation where this is relevant?
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S WHYS0 Expendable
93
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Posted - 2013.07.25 11:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is actually quite a common thing. But this is due to the nested Nature of skills. The Amarrian Freighter actually only requires 2 skills to fly it, Amarr Freighter 1 and Advanced Spaceship Command 1, the fact that Amarr Freighter Contains anything else at all doesn't really change if you can fly the ship or not, provided that you have those 2 skills. |
Takari
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
37
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Posted - 2013.07.25 12:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Long before the skill changes I picked up Caldari Battleship 1
Later on they added BattleCruiser and Destroyer as prerequisites in the nest but since I have Battleship 1 (Which is the only "required" skill) I can still fly a battleship even though I don't have the pre-reqs.
The nested skills look a bit funny, but the way it works can protect against these kinds of changes. "Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things.
Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
507
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Posted - 2013.07.25 12:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Balzac Legazou wrote:Is this a left-over from some older patch (that never got cleaned up properly), or is there some situation where this is relevant?
Say you get podded with an inadequate clone and lose Advanced Spaceship Command 5, you'll still be able to pilot your freighter because to fly the freighter itself only requires ASC 1 and Amarr Freighter 1.
You wouldn't be able to inject another racial freighter skill without retraining ASC 5, because ASC 5 is a pre-req for the freighter skill, not the ship.
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Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.30 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Balzac Legazou wrote:Is this a left-over from some older patch (that never got cleaned up properly), or is there some situation where this is relevant? Say you get podded with an inadequate clone and lose Advanced Spaceship Command 5, you'll still be able to pilot your freighter because to fly the freighter itself only requires ASC 1 and Amarr Freighter 1.1
Which is completely unrelated to the issue mentioned in my post. If you removed the primary skill requirement (leaving only the "secondary" tree), the effect would be exactly the same in the situation you're describing.
In any case, the prerequisites only apply to injection, nowadays. As long as you have the "Freighter" skill itself, you could (in theory) lose every single prerequisite skill, and you'd still be able to pilot your freighter.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
761
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Posted - 2013.08.01 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good to know. i always thought the primary prerequisites where the skills needed to actually fly the ship, While the secondary prerequisites were the skills needed to inject the skill book. |
Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.01 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Good to know. i always thought the primary prerequisites where the skills needed to actually fly the ship, While the secondary prerequisites were the skills needed to inject the skill book.
Nope, "primary" and "secondary" (and tertiary, and so on) is just a way CCP uses to distinguish between the various different skills required, when they have different "skill trees" under them.
In this case (probably due to some change made more than 2 expansions ago), one of the trees is completely contained in the other, which is redundant. It's just a bit odd that they didn't fix it in Odyssey, since they were cleaning up spaceship command skills anyway. |
Ryelek d'Entari
The 4th Legion Here Be Dragons
91
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
In this particular case, having Adv. Spaceship Command as a top level prereq to the freighter ship is also what causes that skill to function for freighters. Otherwise you wouldn't get the agility bonus.
That's why all the cap ships have Capital Ships xxx as a top-level prereq to the various ships as well. The skill system isn't smart enough to follow nested prereqs in order to apply the skill bonus appropriately. |
Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.08.05 22:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryelek d'Entari wrote:In this particular case, having Adv. Spaceship Command as a top level prereq to the freighter ship is also what causes that skill to function for freighters. Otherwise you wouldn't get the agility bonus.
Do you're saying ship bonuses can only be based on skills that appear as top-level prerequisites, due to some technical issue?
That would explain why they didn't clean up the repetition, but it seems that it would be trivial to automatically hide repeated skills in the info panel. |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
70
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Posted - 2013.08.06 04:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Balzac Legazou wrote:In any case, the prerequisites only apply to injection, nowadays. As long as you have the "Freighter" skill itself (plus ASC 1), you could (in theory) lose every single prerequisite skill (i.e., all the skills down the chain), and you'd still be able to pilot your freighter.
It has always been like that. Only thing they changed in Odyssey was that prerequisites aren't required to train top level skill (in this case Racial Freighter).
The system you want would allow player to use freighter with ASC 0. Currently it's not possible. |
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Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.08.07 03:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Balzac Legazou wrote:In any case, the prerequisites only apply to injection, nowadays. It has always been like that. Only thing they changed in Odyssey was that prerequisites aren't required to train top level skill
In other words, it hasn't always been like that. Which was exactly my point.
And training ASC from 0 to 1 takes only a few minutes, so that's obviously not the reason for having the same skills repeated in primary and secondary. Ryelek above has probably pointed out the real reason (a technical detail of the way ship bonuses work). |
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