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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.29 02:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can we please return Yulai to the way it was before please?
Background for new players: in the old days Yulai was a neutral territory owned by DED/Concord and was connected to all four of the major race areas. Thus, Yulai acted as a neutral hub. The shortest way from any capital to another was through Yulai. There were 4 main capitals: Oursulaert (Gallente), Rens (Minmatar), Jita (Caldari), and Amarr (Ammarian). Yulai was the most populated system, but the race hubs still had large populations. Anyway CCP didn't like having so many people in one system so they decided to disconnect Yulai from the other systems so it was no longer on the shortest path. The stated objective was to make people go back to the racial regions. This completely failed. What happened is that everybody moved to Jita, the second biggest hub due to the popularity of Caldari ships. This had the effect of benefitting all the Caldari-based players and screwing everybody else (who was operating in high sec). For example, being a trader I had to uproot and transport all my stuff out of Alentene and move to Caldari space to be closer to Jita. Since I had literally 1000s of assets in depots all over Essence and Verge Vendor this was a huge pain in the ass for me. Now, years later, the situation is the same: a Caldari-focused high-sec map. Travel became slower and less convenient because you could no longer go through Yulai. So, for example, to go from Jita to Amarr became a longer trip. Virtually every important major high sec route got longer.
Anyway, now that the cut-off-Yulai experiment is complete I don't really see the benefit. In fact, it just seems to have distorted the game in the favor of Caldari and slowed down travel needlessly.
Can we please restore the links to Yulai the way they were before? I think this would result in a much better gameplay. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
47
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Posted - 2013.07.29 02:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
sure, why not |
Commander Ted
Side Effects. Serious Space Holding Alliance
796
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Posted - 2013.07.29 02:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
we should do the exact opposite of what you suggest and make it even harder to get around hisec, because making things easier cheapens the experience.
Look at the idea in my signature
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S WHYS0 Expendable
93
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Posted - 2013.07.29 03:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Neutral Trade hub, sure, why not :) |
Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
301
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Posted - 2013.07.29 03:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
When CCP Veritas and the team manage to get "Brain on the Box" to work so that it is considerably less server taxing to jump/dock/bridge, etc then I don't see why those connections can not be reestablished. As it stands right now the lag jumping in to Yulai would be many times worse than Jita as masses of people relocate from Jita and the other hubs to Yulai.
Expect some significant backlash as people defend the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way things are now. From what you have said the current market hubs still existed then. I would expect that they would continue to exist after this change, although is a lesser capacity than they do now. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2423
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Posted - 2013.07.29 05:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:we should do the exact opposite of what you suggest and make it even harder to get around hisec, because making things easier cheapens the experience.
So by your logic, creating more opportunities for PvP, making it more accessible and easier to get into will kill PvP? Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Commander Ted
Side Effects. Serious Space Holding Alliance
798
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Posted - 2013.07.29 05:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote: So by your logic, creating more opportunities for PvP, making it more accessible and easier to get into will kill PvP?
wtf are you talking about https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
369
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Posted - 2013.07.29 06:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nope, multiple more local hubs are good for business. I haven't been in Jita on my main in... I don't know, two years or so? Still, I manage just fine financially. |
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
54
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Posted - 2013.07.29 06:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
The OP's suggestions seems to be leading to making Yulai a Super-Jita, with even more congestion than Jita has now. Ugh. What would be much better would be to alter map connections to reduce the dominance of Jita and make the secondary hubs more equal to it. Tricky to do, though. Cutting a connection or two to Jita will likely just result in another Caldari system emerging as the game's uber trade hub. Sufficient connections would have to be altered to make Caldari space in general less of a crossroads to the galaxy.
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Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
301
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Posted - 2013.07.29 07:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Nope, multiple more local hubs are good for business. I haven't been in Jita on my main in... I don't know, two years or so? Still, I manage just fine financially. And what would change for you if this were to happen? I would imagine, with what you have said, next to nothing would change for you.
Eric Raeder wrote:The OP's suggestions seems to be leading to making Yulai a Super-Jita, with even more congestion than Jita has now. Ugh. What would be much better would be to alter map connections to reduce the dominance of Jita and make the secondary hubs more equal to it. Tricky to do, though. Cutting a connection or two to Jita will likely just result in another Caldari system emerging as the game's uber trade hub. Sufficient connections would have to be altered to make Caldari space in general less of a crossroads to the galaxy.
What if CCP were to make it so there was no congestion even in a super Jita? Would you be opposed to it still? Chances are you will never be able to sufficiently cut the number of connections to make all the hubs equal. Even if you did a connection a hub has 2 or more jumps out that allows it easier access to another race's space would make it the dominate trade hub. Balancing correctly across 20+ jumps in any direction from any hub is improbable. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15289
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Posted - 2013.07.29 08:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
I always thought it was a bad change tbh. So yes I agree, time to change it back.
+1
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
432
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Posted - 2013.07.29 08:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hopefully this will come with the new industry changes. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
169
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Posted - 2013.07.29 08:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
A "neutral hub" does not necessarily need to have any usable stations. Would Yulai be such a problem without any stations usable by players in it? For that matter what if CCP could just block market access in the entire system so that you can't buy or sell from within it?
Edit: Please note that trading and establishing or accepting contracts would also have to be blocked in the system as well to eliminate all trade-based server load that isn't explicitly related to transportation. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
9153
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 08:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Droidster wrote:now that the cut-off-Yulai experiment is complete your post was a cool story until that line. right then is when I have to say "tl;dr drugs are bad" and call your entire post bullshit. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
369
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Posted - 2013.07.29 08:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:And what would change for you if this were to happen? I would imagine, with what you have said, next to nothing would change for you.
Basically, I couldn't exploit the price difference, as a central easily accessible hub acts as a normalizer across regions much easier than decentralized hubs do now.
People aren't limited to caldari space because it would be hard to get to another part of high sec - after all, for a bargain price, you can have all your assets lifted over the night by Red Frog or similar services. People are stuck in caldari space for other, mostly historic reasons. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
755
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is a cool idea.
I've always thought Yulai was a cool system and wondered why CCP swept it under the rug.
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Shiera Kuni
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
60
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shereza wrote:A "neutral hub" does not necessarily need to have any usable stations. Would Yulai be such a problem without any stations usable by players in it? For that matter what if CCP could just block market access in the entire system so that you can't buy or sell from within it?
Edit: Please note that trading and establishing or accepting contracts would also have to be blocked in the system as well to eliminate all trade-based server load that isn't explicitly related to transportation.
I would agree with reactivating Yulai only if this were the case, not for the market aspect but because Yulai's only station was wiped off the map by the Elder fleet. I wouldn't mind buzzing through the wreckage of that. CCP Falcon:-á This thread is terrible. |
Marcus Harikari
Guitar Players of EVE
170
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Posted - 2013.07.29 19:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eric Raeder wrote:The OP's suggestions seems to be leading to making Yulai a Super-Jita, with even more congestion than Jita has now. Ugh. What would be much better would be to alter map connections to reduce the dominance of Jita and make the secondary hubs more equal to it. Tricky to do, though. Cutting a connection or two to Jita will likely just result in another Caldari system emerging as the game's uber trade hub. Sufficient connections would have to be altered to make Caldari space in general less of a crossroads to the galaxy.
we should keep the caldari market, but take down all the stargates in caldari space, so that the whole region can only be accessed through wormholes |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4417
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Posted - 2013.07.29 20:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
The last thing this game needs is an even more centralized trade hub.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
312
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 20:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The last thing this game needs is an even more centralized trade hub. Why is this the last thing we need? "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
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Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
7
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Posted - 2013.07.29 20:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Plus 1 but make it a stationless system or a DED/Concord only station with no market.
Make it the fastest but not the only safe route between friendly factions. Then only low sec between the Empire faction rivals.
Then as has been said before increase low sec to segregate all four empires to a greater degree.
Make this a inter empire connection hub and a hotspot for wardecs. Also making it a FW battlezone.
Make the safe routes to the four main trade hubs long. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
113
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Posted - 2013.07.29 20:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is worth some consideration. Dunno if CCP has enough free nodes to dedicate to Yulai though. |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The last thing this game needs is an even more centralized trade hub.
How well is a system with no stations going to work out as a centralized trade hub? |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yulai has 6 stations. I should try to dig up some old maps to show the way the gates used to be so you can see what it was like.
In general, it was a much more balanced world (this was back in 2004). Yulai had the highest activity, but all of the regional centers (Rens, Oursalaert, Jita/Niyabainen, and Amarr) all had significant activity. For example, in Oursalaert which was the regional center near me there were 100-250 pilots all the time, many engaged in trading or manufacturing. Now, all the regional centers are much lower activity and the reason is the distance from the hub (Jita). Due to the new geography most traders such as myself were forced to move to Caldari space. CCP thought that cutting off Yulai would just remove the central hub and people would move back to the regional centers. This was a complete mistake and error in judgement. In fact, the exact opposite from what they wanted happened: people abandoned the regional hubs and went to Jita.
Of course, it is not strictly necessary to reconnect Yulai. You could simply make new connection "highways" out from Jita which would reinvigorate the regions without changing Jita's status as the hub. For example, if you could get to Oursalaert, Rens and Amarr from Jita in 6 or 7 jumps instead of the current 12 then some people would move out of Jita and back to the regional hubs. But it seems more reasonable to me to make the central hub neutral the way Yulai is, so no one race has the preferred space, the way Caldari do now. |
Tampopo Field
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
33
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Posted - 2013.08.02 00:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Having some new faster highways to speed up the travel in high sec would be a nice addition. I don't see how having to hop through a larger number of systems while travelling through adds anything to the game. aside from adding annoyance to those who don't live near Jita.
I also the suggestion that allied factions would have other hish sec connections, but gettinc from calmari/amarr space to gallente/minnie space would require a trip through th Genesis region. It would fit the lore. And add a new chokepoint for suicide gankers to exploit. This would require quite a lot of work though and most likely cause ALOT of angry backlash from people inconvinienced by it as well as from those who just plain don't like change, regardless of it's relevance to them.
The recommendation that Yalai would not have a market to prevent it from turning into a Jita 3.0 or something however is pointless. First off, it would be fairly ineffective as the new hub could form into another system just next to it. Also, even though travel times between empires would be reduces, calmari space would still remain the most populated area. A new hub, would form in Genesis. But would it become larger then Jita is now? Not neccessarily. And concidering how set in their ways people can be, Jita might retain it's crown as the largest of trade hubs.
As for suggestions along the lines of "go through low sec to shorten travel time", doing something like that in a hauler, even core stabbed one, isn't that smart an idea. Such trips tend to end up in flames.
And to those creating or endorsing suggestions like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 to separate all empires with low sec, I pose few questions: did you truly stop to concider how such changes would affect people who do not share your playstyle? A large segment of players like living in high sec. What makes you think that your chosen playstyle is any superior to theirs? Or do you simply not care, because it will be a boon for you? After all, who cares how it will affect others as long as you get your chanse to pad you no doubt huge killboards with haulers, missioners and other pve ships. CCP should just force them to change their playstyle to suit your needs. Notification: Because I'm lazy, I have a tendency to post without proof reading. This may result in various errors including but not limited to typos, weird typos, grammatical errors, bizarre sentence structure, words written repeatedly, mislocated paragraphs, pointlessly complicated explanations, general incoherency, and abrupt endings. |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.08.03 02:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
I was looking at some old maps to try to figure out which connections got cut and found several of them. In the old map there were stargates between the following systems:
Yulai - Lustrevik Kemerk - Niyabainen Yulai - Emsar
There were one or two other cuts too I think, but just these three and you can see the enormous effect on the travel times. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3794
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Posted - 2013.08.03 03:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Droidster wrote:This completely failed. What happened is that everybody moved to Jita, the second biggest hub due to the popularity of Caldari ships.
It wasn't the ships hon. It was the blood....
....lines. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.08.03 04:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
An interesting idea. I don't see any drawbacks to this really.
Though I must admit, there is a certain appeal to Commander Ted's separation of empires with low sec that makes sense as well.
Given people being cultured to consider Jita the main hub, it is doubtful there will be an overnight explosion in Yulai should it be restored. And, of course, such movement will provide certain elements many more ganking opportunities. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
340
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 15:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rowells wrote:sure, why not What this guy said.
Mix things up, watch the chat bots cry. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
ELWhappo Sanchez
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 21:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mag's wrote:I always thought it was a bad change tbh. So yes I agree, time to change it back.
+1 was much better before jita for sure. |
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