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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:37:00 -
[631] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Ok.
Want's better than best HAC speed without fitting nanos. You know what the SNI also gets? Less DPS Less range Less resists/tank Less Fitting Less sensor strength Less capacitor Less target range More dps, way more range, better ehp, better fitting (as you dont need to waste so much pg on medium artys), the rest is of no revelance (lol locking range). TIL capacitor and sensor strength is of no relevance. Why don't we just give the vaga no cap recharge? You have 4 mids to put a booster. 100% chance to get jammed by 1 ECM drone is also fine. Mids: mwd, cap booster, ECCM, tackle. I have so much to learn from you.
Whats a SNI? Blasters for life
https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
626
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:38:00 -
[632] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote: The little bit of cap the vaga can have over the scythe is of no revelance.
Yeah, 8 minutes vs 2 minutes, pff who would even notice? |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
626
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:38:00 -
[633] - Quote
Phox Jorkarzul wrote: Whats a SNI?
Scythe Navy Issue
Edit: It's actually Fleet Issue, my bad. I think "Navy Issue" is a regular term to use regardless though. Except Scorpion Navy Issue already has that. Crap. My bad |
raawe
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
43
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:49:00 -
[634] - Quote
Rise, can we expect any further changes on Sacriledge regarding slot layout, cap regeneration or change of missile velocity to explosion velocity? |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:51:00 -
[635] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote: The little bit of cap the vaga can have over the scythe is of no revelance.
Yeah, 8 minutes vs 2 minutes, pff who would even notice? Also, target range, no relevance? Damps. Damps everywhere. And you are talking about me having no clue. Jeez man, get it together.
You really have no clue when it comes to this game, im done talking to you (6-10km more means nothing when bonused or multiple damps exist). |
To mare
Advanced Technology
225
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 12:53:00 -
[636] - Quote
il like some of the new changes like the extra sensor strenght and locking range but ship like like vagabond sacrilege deimos dont really need the extra locking range wouldnt be better to switch that for some extra HP. plus why you are so stingy with the vaga and dont wanna give it back its full speed, set it a 300 base speed and call the day, the deimos now its really close to the vagabond speed |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
627
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:03:00 -
[637] - Quote
raawe wrote:Rise, can we expect any further changes on Sacriledge regarding slot layout, cap regeneration or change of missile velocity to explosion velocity? You do know that you are cap stable at 67% cap with only one small booster and 2 medium reps running?
To mare wrote:il like some of the new changes like the extra sensor strenght and locking range but ship like like vagabond sacrilege deimos dont really need the extra locking range wouldnt be better to switch that for some extra HP. plus why you are so stingy with the vaga and dont wanna give it back its full speed, set it a 300 base speed and call the day, the deimos now its really close to the vagabond speed The Vaga is still 750 m/s faster than a shield Deimos. Not insignificant at all.
W0lf Crendraven wrote: You really have no clue when it comes to this game, im done talking to you (6-10km more means nothing when bonused or multiple damps exist).
Wrong YET AGAIN. It's 25km difference, and the new Deimos will under dual rigged bonused Maulus, double damp, have 16,6 km lockrange, enabling you to get overheated webs and scram, vs 13,7 km on the old Deimos. In practice, not a huge difference, I admit, but again; did those numbers hurt when you violently ripped them out of your ass? |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1041
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:09:00 -
[638] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I don't have an ETA for Singularity unfortunately. We are having some trouble getting stuff moved there atm and we aren't sure when it will be resolved completely. Will be before 1.1 release of course, so hopefully theres enough time for us to react a bit to sisi testing before it goes live.
My position on the Vagabond remains relatively unchanged. Its the second most popular HAC after Zealot currently, doing about as much damage per day in PVP as Maelstrom or Apocalypse or Maller or Omen or Cyclone. From there we are giving it significant buffs in this pass in the form of mitigation through the role bonus, added cap recharge, added electronics stats, and a new free bonus to shield boosting. I'm happy to concede that the Cynabal makes it seem like the Vaga should be better, but as I've said, this is a problem with the Cynabal not the Vaga. I think the Vaga is probably at the very bottom of the list of HACs that I would worry about. And the fact that it recieved a huge nerf when you nerfed TEs, the fact that it now does an amazing 170 DPS at 25k with Faction or a fantastic 250DPS at 25 if you use barrage and restrict yourself to explosive damage is fine?
A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
226
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:13:00 -
[639] - Quote
Atreides 47 wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The other big problem with the Vaga is the Cynabal. That is not a problem we want to address by having an arms race between the two during this rebalance. The Cynabal needs a look and I'm sure when we get to pirate cruisers we can solve the problem. Hands off from Cynabal ! You both with Fozzie are Edward scissor-hands ! Go screw-up something else and don't touch Minmatar industry.
The Vagabond sucks because the Cynabal is kicking the crap out of it, so what exactly do YOU plan to do with the Cynabal so that the Vagabond actually gets flown in reasonable numbers?
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Danny John-Peter
Stay Frosty.
237
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:13:00 -
[640] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I don't have an ETA for Singularity unfortunately. We are having some trouble getting stuff moved there atm and we aren't sure when it will be resolved completely. Will be before 1.1 release of course, so hopefully theres enough time for us to react a bit to sisi testing before it goes live.
My position on the Vagabond remains relatively unchanged. Its the second most popular HAC after Zealot currently, doing about as much damage per day in PVP as Maelstrom or Apocalypse or Maller or Omen or Cyclone. From there we are giving it significant buffs in this pass in the form of mitigation through the role bonus, added cap recharge, added electronics stats, and a new free bonus to shield boosting. I'm happy to concede that the Cynabal makes it seem like the Vaga should be better, but as I've said, this is a problem with the Cynabal not the Vaga. I think the Vaga is probably at the very bottom of the list of HACs that I would worry about. And the fact that it recieved a huge nerf when you nerfed TEs, the fact that it now does an amazing 170 DPS at 25k with Faction or a fantastic 250DPS at 25 if you use barrage and restrict yourself to explosive damage is fine? A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about?
Because they are obviously ships designed for the exact same role aren't they.
Oh, no wait, they are completely different ships for completely different purposes using completely different weapon systems. |
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Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:16:00 -
[641] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Atreides 47 wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The other big problem with the Vaga is the Cynabal. That is not a problem we want to address by having an arms race between the two during this rebalance. The Cynabal needs a look and I'm sure when we get to pirate cruisers we can solve the problem. Hands off from Cynabal ! You both with Fozzie are Edward scissor-hands ! Go screw-up something else and don't touch Minmatar industry. The Vagabond sucks because the Cynabal is kicking the crap out of it, so what exactly do YOU plan to do with the Cynabal so that the Vagabond actually gets flown in reasonable numbers?
No the vagabond sucks because of its terrible DPS and active tanking bonus on a 4 mid kiting ship. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
627
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:18:00 -
[642] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about?
Because they are obviously ships designed for the exact same role aren't they. Oh, no wait, they are completely different ships for completely different purposes using completely different weapon systems. You are perfectly correct!
The vaga is supposed to do lower dps at a longer range, and the Deimos is supposed to do more dps at shorter range. The vaga should have more speed, and the Deimos more tank.
So what are you arguing about again? |
Danny John-Peter
Stay Frosty.
237
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:19:00 -
[643] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about?
Because they are obviously ships designed for the exact same role aren't they. Oh, no wait, they are completely different ships for completely different purposes using completely different weapon systems. You are perfectly correct! The vaga is supposed to do lower dps at a longer range, and the Deimos is supposed to do more dps at shorter range. The vaga should have more speed, and the Deimos more tank. So what are you arguing about again?
So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
|
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1041
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:21:00 -
[644] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Atreides 47 wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The other big problem with the Vaga is the Cynabal. That is not a problem we want to address by having an arms race between the two during this rebalance. The Cynabal needs a look and I'm sure when we get to pirate cruisers we can solve the problem. Hands off from Cynabal ! You both with Fozzie are Edward scissor-hands ! Go screw-up something else and don't touch Minmatar industry. The Vagabond sucks because the Cynabal is kicking the crap out of it, so what exactly do YOU plan to do with the Cynabal so that the Vagabond actually gets flown in reasonable numbers?
With these changes to Vagabond chances are Cynabals are going to get their ass kick hard, maybe not 220's Cynas dual prop but 425's and arty ones will get close to extinction, plus a simple nano and mwd +OGB+combat booster and eventual hyperlink your vaga will not only catch zdat cynabal but will tank about double physical EHP dmg while having T2 resist profile.
If something Cynabal will need afterwards is certainly not speed nerf but agility one, just like Machariel. After their eventual agility nerf they'll be fine.
Vaga with that rep bonus will be a fantastic solo/small gang ship, if some people can't see the potential in it they're wrong. Ok arties on it will be more than a tricky stuff to do but I'm certain this ship soon enough will be called out by many for nerfs, time will prove who's right.
Deimos might become a good sniper hac but tracking on rails is being reduced for the same amount of buff it was given at first changes. Now we'll get same rails every one was complaining for years with more dps and still unable to track decently unless you fit 75mm *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
226
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:21:00 -
[645] - Quote
If your plan for making the Vagabond any good is "We'll nerf the Cynabal and give it a new role" I hope that happens soon not Soon(TM)
I'm still disappointed by the HACs but it sounds like CCP is going to refuse to buff them further. So, what about decreasing their build cost to about 100-110m? That way, despite their "meh" performance they would be more affordable? Except the Ishtar because seriously CCP, why do you make these drone boats like that. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
628
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:31:00 -
[646] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE.
So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad. |
Danny John-Peter
Stay Frosty.
238
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:37:00 -
[647] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad.
Because it has nearly half the EHP of a Hurricane and does less raw DPS at close range, and is range bonused. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1042
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:38:00 -
[648] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad.
Because the guy is bad, not the ship. He wants a ship zip zapping all around at 10k speed doing 500dps at 30km and a new bonus to webs and points on it for 35km each.
You're wasting your time trying to explain the obvious. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:38:00 -
[649] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad.
Arty cane used to be amazing, and the cane did much more DPS the closer you got than a vaga ever could. Vaga has a range bonus, obviously it will tickle to 25kms. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
629
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:39:00 -
[650] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad. Because it has nearly half the EHP of a Hurricane and does less raw DPS at close range, and is range bonused. It's also a cruiser..... |
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Danny John-Peter
Stay Frosty.
238
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:41:00 -
[651] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad. Because it has nearly half the EHP of a Hurricane and does less raw DPS at close range, and is range bonused. It's also a cruiser.....
Its also 150 mil. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7410
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:42:00 -
[652] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Its also 150 mil.
Price is never a balancing factor.
See titan blobs. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
629
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:42:00 -
[653] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
Back before BC rebalance, the Hurricane did (and still does) about 100 dps at 25km, and everyone regarded the Hurricane as the one and only skirmish battlecruiser. With 425mm Autos and Barrage, it does 223 dps at 25km with dual gyro dual TE. So tell me why a Vaga with dual gyro dual TE using 220mm Autos with Barrage, dealing 239 dps at 25km, flying more than twice as fast as the Hurricane, with less than a third signature radius, is bad. Because it has nearly half the EHP of a Hurricane and does less raw DPS at close range, and is range bonused. It's also a cruiser..... Its also 150 mil. And it can kill a battlecruiser like the hurricane. We can do this all day |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1042
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:42:00 -
[654] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about?
Because they are obviously ships designed for the exact same role aren't they. Oh, no wait, they are completely different ships for completely different purposes using completely different weapon systems. You are perfectly correct! The vaga is supposed to do lower dps at a longer range, and the Deimos is supposed to do more dps at shorter range. The vaga should have more speed, and the Deimos more tank. So what are you arguing about again? So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas.
RANGE CONTROL doesn't mean you're playing wow nightelfe hunter in Eve. Vagabond goes way faster than any other HAC in the game and can perfectly control/mitigate incoming dmg with this specific advantage that is probably the strongest attribute for solo/gang pvp, the reason why cynabals are so good is not really the amount od dps they can push but the ability to dictate range and mitigate incoming dps (dual prop, large ASB)
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:45:00 -
[655] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:
Its also 150 mil.
Price is never a balancing factor. See titan blobs.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If a ship is going to be 150mil and also terrible, then it just a waste. Look at the eagle. It is "content" but if it removed from the game nothing would change. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:46:00 -
[656] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.
move the utility high to an extra low.
love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying In a fleet, the Sac right now can get over 60k EHP while sporting two BCUs, which is quite nice. While very thankful for the bonus change from cap to something useful, I was sort of hoping for a bit of a dps increase to avoid being completely out-stripped by the Cerberus; it already comes in second place to the Cerberus, which is getting a dps buff. However, increased range is also nice.
On the other hand, I'm very happy with the Cerberus changes :)
|
Desorem
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:48:00 -
[657] - Quote
Vagabond this, vagabond that. Actually, there are two minmatar HACs. I cant really remember name of second one, sine you only can find it in market. Or most likely you cant because there is no idiot who will sell such useless piece of HACness anywhere except Jita.
Ah, its called Muninn. +1 low you say. Oh, nice idea, like giving glasses to blind man. LRHACS generally sucks compared to T3BC, but Muninn not just sucks, it SUCKS. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
781
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:49:00 -
[658] - Quote
The cerb has been terrible for so long, that anything other than its current state people are happy with.
I wish It would get a 25m3 drone bay and/or a 10% damage bonus to all missile types.
Then it would be good. |
Danny John-Peter
Stay Frosty.
240
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:51:00 -
[659] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: A blaster Diemost will be doing about 0 or slightly above at 25km with T2 LR ammo, what are you complaining about?
Because they are obviously ships designed for the exact same role aren't they. Oh, no wait, they are completely different ships for completely different purposes using completely different weapon systems. You are perfectly correct! The vaga is supposed to do lower dps at a longer range, and the Deimos is supposed to do more dps at shorter range. The vaga should have more speed, and the Deimos more tank. So what are you arguing about again? So you think 170/250 DPS at 25k is fine for a range bonused T2 Cruiser which is designed to kite, you have some strange ideas. RANGE CONTROL doesn't mean you're playing wow nightelfe hunter in Eve. Vagabond goes way faster than any other HAC in the game and can perfectly control/mitigate incoming dmg with this specific advantage that is probably the strongest attribute for solo/gang pvp, the reason why cynabals are so good is not really the amount od dps they can push but the ability to dictate range and mitigate incoming dps (dual prop, large ASB)
I dont understand how any of that is relevant. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
227
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:57:00 -
[660] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:
Its also 150 mil.
Price is never a balancing factor. See titan blobs.
If something costs 150m and sucks, nobody will fly it. The idea behind the rebalancing is to get these ships to flyable condition. So either buff it more, or lower the build cost, or nobody will fly it. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
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