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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4057
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 02:24:00 -
[271] - Quote
Pity supercarriers can't shoot POSes. I think. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3822
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 03:15:00 -
[272] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Pity supercarriers can't shoot POSes. I think.
Last I heard, fighterbombers could reach smalls. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Nakkano
Internet Space Pimps
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 06:26:00 -
[273] - Quote
Unfortunately, TiDi is not gameplay transparent as OP shows. It's a bandaid (albeit a good one) to fix a server capacity problem.
There should be an expectation of a permanent solution, and not a long road of balance changes to compensate for TiDi. The goal is to get to the point where TiDi is never engaged. |
Michael Ruckert
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 07:11:00 -
[274] - Quote
Cue TIDI music during the next event.
http://youtu.be/Rtkdo7bOmJc |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4064
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 07:20:00 -
[275] - Quote
Nakkano wrote:Unfortunately, TiDi is not gameplay transparent as OP shows. It's a bandaid (albeit a good one) to fix a server capacity problem.
There should be an expectation of a permanent solution, and not a long road of balance changes to compensate for TiDi. The goal is to get to the point where TiDi is never engaged. We the blobbers will continue to push as many players as we can onto a single grid at once. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 08:38:00 -
[276] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:So, now, force projection is a problem? I can get on that bandwagon. That's actually an important component of the argument that TiDi gives advantage to the larger side, because the attackers are probably under TiDi (read:gimped) and the people rushing to defend against the attack are probably not under TiDi (read:moving at full speed). ahahahah right how about you instead talk about stuff you understand, like mining ice in osmon or spamming jita local
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:if you break everyone else's stuff, they'd have to be stupid to sell you the tools you need to continue to break their stuff. sure just tell me how i can set my trit sell order to "will not sell to goons"
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:You have to secure your supply routes and store ships and materials. it's called "jump freighters" and "npc stations". unless you suggest we can take npc stations as well.
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Think about it: There is a lull in activity while something is coming out of reinforced, then a flurry of activity as one side tries to move the structure out of its vulnerable state and the other side tries to destroy/flip it. If you spread the potential for that activity out over a longer duration a->y, there will be less incentive for groups of players to overload the system at time z. i guess there won't be much of an incentive to overload the system because i can just jump in a 250 man dread fleet and kill the tower before you even know it was under attack (because it happened in less than 5 minutes). so is your new suggestion now to make structures have more hp so people with a 250 man dread fleet can't just kill it dead in less than 5 minutes?
please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 08:40:00 -
[277] - Quote
i may sound like a broken record here, but for some reason you have missed that question a couple of times so i'm just posting it again so you see it
please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes (less than 2 minutes in fact according to RubyPorto, and i have no reason to doubt his numbers) |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
1027
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 08:42:00 -
[278] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:So, now, force projection is a problem? I can get on that bandwagon. That's actually an important component of the argument that TiDi gives advantage to the larger side, because the attackers are probably under TiDi (read:gimped) and the people rushing to defend against the attack are probably not under TiDi (read:moving at full speed). attacker reinforcements will also be moving at full speed, and when both sides arrive at the scene they will all be under TiDi, so this becomes a non-factor. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4068
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 09:34:00 -
[279] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:i may sound like a broken record here, but for some reason you have missed that question a couple of times so i'm just posting it again so you see it
please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes (less than 2 minutes in fact according to RubyPorto, and i have no reason to doubt his numbers) You don't own any structures, that's how. Finally, the broken POS code is no longer an issue, POSes will affect nearly no players at all. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:06:00 -
[280] - Quote
How to defend your space in 5 seconds:
1. Offline a defensive SBU 2. Miller Time ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
619
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:16:00 -
[281] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Grimpak wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:stuff any hard limit, no matter how benign the reason behind it, can, and will, be exploited, no matter how you twist it, sprinkle it with spice, sugar coat it, and wrap it in candy paper. As a hard core blobber, I somehow must approve of this on some level. One moment as I consider how to get as many accounts as possible in order to help my coalition with the next SystemCapfleet doctrine.
Cut the SRP to the minimum (big ships are not that usefull when you can prevent anyone form entering the system to fight you anyway) and use the saved ISKs alliancewide to fund accounts with PLEX? |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:20:00 -
[282] - Quote
Ruby Porto wrote:server cap, server cap, server cap
Let's say the server cap was 1000 players. Let's say there are 20,000 players in an alliance. That means that an alliance can cap 20 systems (with all their players logged on 23.5/7). How many systems can a 20,000 player alliance hold given the CURRENT game dynamics?
Sirane Elrek wrote:please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes
I'm not proposing anyone mount a defense in 5 minutes that can repel 250 dreadnoughts. That should take a miracle or some sort of space magic. But, you should be planning a defense of your structure before you ever anchor and online it, so that gives you more than 5 minutes. First rule of EVE: Don't fly (or anchor) what you can't afford to lose.
Park a few triage carriers nearby if it's that important.
Grimpak wrote:attacker reinforcements will also be moving at full speed, and when both sides arrive at the scene they will all be under TiDi
Agreed. However, why would you ever assault a target with less force than was required to neutralize it? Ideally, "attacker reinforcements" is an oxymoron. Why would you attack a hill with 50 dudes if you were pretty sure it was going to take 100 dudes to claim the hill? And, if you used 100 dudes but suddenly it became apparent that it would take 200 dudes to claim the hill, you'd withdraw, because you don't have enough dudes. There is the possibility that you had another 100 dudes available in that case, but then why did you only send 100 dudes to take the hill? Send 200! tl;dr - An efficient attacking force should have its forces in position before the attack even begins. |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:22:00 -
[283] - Quote
Victor Dathar wrote:How to defend your space in 5 seconds:
1. Offline a defensive SBU 2. Miller Time
no you see SBUs won't exist in the new world order because having stuff go invulnerable on certain conditions is bad gameplay:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Defense would be if you stationed a force near the structure to combat any force that might try to attack it. Defense is expensive, and it doesn't always work. |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:22:00 -
[284] - Quote
What if we put a flag on the top of every station and to capture that station you need to go and get that flag and take it back to your base? ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:29:00 -
[285] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:I'm not proposing anyone mount a defense in 5 minutes that can repel 250 dreadnoughts. That should take a miracle or some sort of space magic. But, you should be planning a defense of your structure before you ever anchor and online it, so that gives you more than 5 minutes. First rule of EVE: Don't fly (or anchor) what you can't afford to lose. "don't drop towers because you can't defend them anyway, and don't live outside of npc stations because you'll get locked out of your stuff faster than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3832
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:33:00 -
[286] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Let's say the server cap was 1000 players. Let's say there are 20,000 players in an alliance. That means that an alliance can cap 20 systems (with all their players logged on 23.5/7). How many systems can a 20,000 player alliance hold given the CURRENT game dynamics?
So... you're suggesting that an alliance should not be able to keep any system they can't keep pegged at server cap 23/7/365. And this is good gameplay... how?
Quote:I'm not proposing anyone mount a defense in 5 minutes that can repel 250 dreadnoughts. That should take a miracle or some sort of space magic. But, you should be planning a defense of your structure before you ever anchor and online it, so that gives you more than 5 minutes. First rule of EVE: Don't fly (or anchor) what you can't afford to lose.
Park a few triage carriers nearby if it's that important.
So.. you're saying you don't think anyone should be able to mount any defense ever.
How do the Triage carriers reach the structure? The system's at the server cap. For that matter, how do you detect the attack to even try throwing Triage Carriers into a Dreadfleet?(You do remember your proposal to remove attack mails, right?)
Quote:tl;dr - An efficient attacking force should have its forces in position before the attack even begins.
^^Making my point for me. How do you defend a structure when your proposed game mechanics prevent you from entering the system it's in until it is long dead and the attacking fleet departed? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11177
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:53:00 -
[287] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote: Agreed. However, why would you ever assault a target with less force than was required to neutralize it? Ideally, "attacker reinforcements" is an oxymoron. Why would you attack a hill with 50 dudes if you were pretty sure it was going to take 100 dudes to claim the hill? And, if you used 100 dudes but suddenly it became apparent that it would take 200 dudes to claim the hill, you'd withdraw, because you don't have enough dudes. There is the possibility that you had another 100 dudes available in that case, but then why did you only send 100 dudes to take the hill? Send 200! tl;dr - An efficient attacking force should have its forces in position before the attack even begins.
It's pretty obvious from this that you've never been involved in a 'for real' 0.0 sov war. That is, it was pretty obvious from your other posts but now it's confirmed
Reinforcements are an absolutely key component of an extended fight. You see, those guys who lose ships, what do you think they do? Say "well played good sirs" and log off? Or do you think maybe they get in another ship and rejoin the fight?
In addition, it is extremely poor strategy to put your high value ships on the field until you're confident that they're going to be reasonably secure. No one fields supercaps into a battlefield without gaining subcap superiority (or at least having good reason to expect to have it).
I'm sorry but your conception of how these battles unfold is naive in the extreme. I suggest gaining some actual experience if you want to participate in discussions about them.
1 Kings 12:11
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
1027
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 12:57:00 -
[288] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:tl;dr - An efficient attacking force should have its forces in position before the attack even begins.
a) expect the unexpected. b) why would I attack something that would be able to outnumber me? if it did outnumbered me, then whoever did my intel needs to be fired. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
1027
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 13:00:00 -
[289] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:faster than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"
considering how easy that is to say, I reckon that if it was me, it would take some half hour.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:19:00 -
[290] - Quote
Ruby Porto wrote:1.So... you're suggesting that an alliance should not be able to keep any system they can't keep pegged at server cap 23/7/365. And this is good gameplay... how?
2.So.. you're saying you don't think anyone should be able to mount any defense ever.
3.How do you defend a structure when your proposed game mechanics prevent you from entering the system it's in until it is long dead and the attacking fleet departed?
1.No, YOU are suggesting that. 2.No, I'm not. See your no. 1 for clues. 3.A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from entering the system BEFORE the structure has come under attack. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from camping likely routes of ingress for the attacking force. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from camping likely routes of egress for the attacking force. A system cap mechanic does not necessitate that every attacking force be so numerous as to put the target system's population at maximum capacity. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from retaliating, etc., etc., etc. tl;dr - Use your brain.
Sirane Elrek wrote:"don't drop towers because you can't defend them anyway, and don't live outside of npc stations because you'll get locked out of your stuff faster than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"
You don't think Goonswarm is capable of defending ANY towers or stations under this scenario? Not even 1?
Malcanis wrote:Reinforcements are an absolutely key component of an extended fight.
In EVE, every structure fight is an extended fight, because of timers, force projection, and to a lesser extent, because of TiDi. See the issue?
Grimpak wrote:b) why would I attack something that would be able to outnumber me?
Because it did NOT outnumber you when you were attacking it. Because you wanted to hurt it more than you cared about it hurting you. Because you were still a greater force, despite being outnumbered. Because you (generally speaking, not you specifically) are a dumbass. I dunno.
Your question alludes to why there is a "blue donut". No one successfully attacks the blue donut because the blue donut will always be given the chance to outnumber them, always, guaranteed, 100%, unless some fool doesn't put strontium clathrates in his tower or something ridiculous. |
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Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:31:00 -
[291] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:You don't think Goonswarm is capable of defending ANY towers or stations under this scenario? Not even 1? yeah we could probably keep two or so stations because we're large enough for around-the-clock coverage but you can count the number of alliances who can field a defense against 250 dreads at all times on one hand. of a blind lumberjack.
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Your question alludes to why there is a "blue donut". No one successfully attacks the blue donut because the blue donut will always be given the chance to outnumber them, always, guaranteed, 100%, unless some fool doesn't put strontium clathrates in his tower or something ridiculous. funny, you must have missed what happened in fountain two weeks ago wait which of us is the blue donut here, is it us or test |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1296
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:40:00 -
[292] - Quote
what the balls is egress
i'm reporting him for obscene language just in case |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
620
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:43:00 -
[293] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:You don't think Goonswarm is capable of defending ANY towers or stations under this scenario? Not even 1? yeah we could probably keep two or so stations because we're large enough for around-the-clock coverage but you can count the number of alliances who can field a defense against 250 dreads at all times on one hand. of a blind lumberjack. Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Your question alludes to why there is a "blue donut". No one successfully attacks the blue donut because the blue donut will always be given the chance to outnumber them, always, guaranteed, 100%, unless some fool doesn't put strontium clathrates in his tower or something ridiculous. funny, you must have missed what happened in fountain two weeks ago wait which of us is the blue donut here, is it us or test
The people supporting the blue donut theory usually also support the TEST = CFC theory. The blue donut attacked the blue donut. It was also aided by other part of the blue donuts who weere helping the blue donut defend against the blue donut. Part of the blue donut was also put under contract by the blue donut.
I'm hungry for some donuts now... |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
447
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:46:00 -
[294] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:i may sound like a broken record here, but for some reason you have missed that question a couple of times so i'm just posting it again so you see it
please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes (less than 2 minutes in fact according to RubyPorto, and i have no reason to doubt his numbers)
If you cap the system and create a time dilated environment, it isn't 5 minutes of real time, but much much longer.
(Of course, once any defense jumped in they were on that same time frame, but they could leapfrog the clock in regards to forming up and getting there regardless of if they could save the tower, they might be able to inflict casualties on the attackers and maybe even recoup some loss in the form of wrecks). "But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
288
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:53:00 -
[295] - Quote
Time Dilation works well and yes there's the potential of some issues like the OP is describing, there's almost no change that is going to give 100% perfect satisfaction for every given scenario, but the other side... even worse than your "sorry, no kill for you on that titan."
No it doesn't just help the big side but the smaller side too.
Having been in a highsec war with over 600 in system, there was nothing but appreciation for it (one of our uni vs RvB wars) from all parties. Previous to this (say when the uni was under attack in korski) the lag got so bad that many couldn't fight on the un-reinforced node.
So if this is the only downside (ganking a titan by a smaller force), it's something most of those in EVE won't find a problem with vs the alternatives from "elder days" where entire battles were won or lost by who was first to suffer from black screens and huge lag that was harder to deal with than the ships you were facing.
Again, I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a point on an issue but that such an issue is more acceptable than the alternative. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3838
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:57:00 -
[296] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:1.No, YOU are suggesting that. 2.No, I'm not. See your no. 1 for clues. 3.A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from entering the system BEFORE the structure has come under attack. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from camping likely routes of ingress for the attacking force. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from camping likely routes of egress for the attacking force. A system cap mechanic does not necessitate that every attacking force be so numerous as to put the target system's population at maximum capacity. A system cap mechanic does not preclude you from retaliating, etc., etc., etc. tl;dr - Use your brain.
1. You've got me and you mixed up. Under your proposals, the only way to defend a system is by pegging it at server cap 23/7/365. You're proposing those proposals. Ergo... you must feel that that being the only form of defense is good gameplay. 2. You're getting me and you mixed up once more. Under your proposals, mounting any defense is impossible, as you are locked out of the system being attacked for the duration of the attack. You're proposing these proposals. Ergo... you must feel that people being preempted from mounting any sort of defense against an attack in progress is appropriate. 3. So, once again, you're saying that the only defense under your system is to keep it pegged at the server cap. Because a server cap will immediately lead to doctrines based entirely on abusing it.
Know how I know? Because that's what happened before TiDi. Lag did not operate in an entirely unpredictable way back then, so if you tossed enough people into a system before the enemy showed up, you could have grid loaded and be sitting on the in gate ready for a turkey shoot. When they jump in, there's lag, but you could function (Arty functioned best). The people jumping in, on the other hand, got black screens and played the part of the Turkeys. Your suggestion just removes the necessity of actually shooting the turkeys.
Do you seriously think anyone's going to say "Hmm, if I bring X people, I will take this system with no possibility of loss or defeat. NAHHHHHHHH. Let's cap our fleet at some smaller number."
As for camping routes of egress, what does that have to do with defending the system you just lost? Also, BLOPS for bombers, Titans for other subcaps, or a pure capital fleet and you've nothing to camp. I suppose here's where you mention that you want all forms of bridging and jump drives removed.
Quote:In EVE, every structure fight is an extended fight, because of timers, force projection, and to a lesser extent, because of TiDi. See the issue?
Nope. What's the problem with your friends wanting to fight even if they're late to the party?
Quote:Your question alludes to why there is a "blue donut". No one successfully attacks the blue donut because the blue donut will always be given the chance to outnumber them, always, guaranteed, 100%, unless some fool doesn't put strontium clathrates in his tower or something ridiculous.
The only way to hold space under your system is to actually ally yourself with every single group in EVE who has a dread fleet. And your system is supposed to help stop the imagined "blue donut"?
Murk Paradox wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:i may sound like a broken record here, but for some reason you have missed that question a couple of times so i'm just posting it again so you see it
please explain how you're proposing to mount a defense in less than 5 minutes (less than 2 minutes in fact according to RubyPorto, and i have no reason to doubt his numbers) If you cap the system and create a time dilated environment, it isn't 5 minutes of real time, but much much longer. (Of course, once any defense jumped in they were on that same time frame, but they could leapfrog the clock in regards to forming up and getting there regardless of if they could save the tower, they might be able to inflict casualties on the attackers and maybe even recoup some loss in the form of wrecks).
Mayhaw's whole premise is that his proposed server population cap and no timers would obviate the need for TiDi entirely. And his proposals are what we've been discussing for a few pages now. Murk. The fact that it also obviates the need for defense (because it's impossible) or a coherent attacking fleet composition (because no defender can enter system to attack you) doesn't seem to faze him. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
447
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:58:00 -
[297] - Quote
It would certainly make your (e-uni) station games in EZA a bit more fun when tidi is involved (Syndicate gets affected by TiDi at times regardless of # of pilots in system) lol. "But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 15:24:00 -
[298] - Quote
Agreed - TiDi is the problem. Not the fact that you attacked a larger and more capable enemy.
Do you think that the removal of TiDi will be the only thing that evens the score between a small corp and a mega alliance with many friends? Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:06:00 -
[299] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Again, I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a point on an issue but that such an issue is more acceptable than the alternative.
I agree. Time Dilation seems like a much better side effect of overloading a system than just being disconnected in a large fleet fight. But, Time Dilation is not the ONLY alternative.
Ruby Porto wrote:1. You've got me and you mixed up. You're getting me and you mixed up once more. So, once again, you're saying that . . .
2.Do you seriously think anyone's going to say "Hmm, if I bring X people, I will take this system with no possibility of loss or defeat. NAHHHHHHHH. Let's cap our fleet at some smaller number."
3.As for camping routes of egress, what does that have to do with defending the system you just lost? Also, BLOPS for bombers, Titans for other subcaps, or a pure capital fleet and you've nothing to camp. I suppose here's where you mention that you want all forms of bridging and jump drives removed.
4.What's the problem with your friends wanting to fight even if they're late to the party?
5.The only way to hold space under your system is to actually ally yourself with every single group in EVE who has a dread fleet.
1.You are making predictions about a system that has unstable elements and exhibits emergent behaviors, i.e. you are making predictions about a system that is inherently UNpredictable. I am not saying that server cap fleets will be "the standard" or that defense will be impossible. You are predicting that to be the outcome. I disagree with those predictions.
2.Not everyone can field 1000 players, or even 500. Furthermore, why not just have 750 in system, then you could have your turkey shoot AND take the system. Meanwhile, there's a pissed off fleet of 1000 or 750 enemy pilots just sitting at the inbound gates or waiting at a titan somewhere while you ravage their system? Give me a break. If they're smart, they're going to go straight to one of YOUR systems and do the very same thing to you.
3.Firstly, camping routes of egress prevents the enemy fleet from getting out alive. 250 dreadnoughts for the price of a few towers? Deal! Secondly, you and others have spent a lot of time and energy pushing the notion that jump drives != invulnerability. "Jump freighters die all the time.", you would say. But here you are now complaining the exact opposite, because it is convenient to your argument. Well, you can't have it both ways. Which one do you choose?
4.Nothing is wrong with your friends getting to the party late, but your structure should be dead when they get there if the strike is executed efficiently. I don't know why the other side should be punished for being there on time and in force. Again, some noob in his Venture in Unpas doesn't get a chance to call his friends to the party when he's being one-shotted by a Thrasher. He has to act BEFORE hand to mitigate the risk of loss and the loss itself. Why shouldn't some multi-billionaire in null have to do the same?
5.Yet another prediction.
Quote:Sirane Elrek: funny, you must have missed what happened in fountain two weeks ago wait which of us is the blue donut here, is it us or test
Frostys Virpioi: The people supporting the blue donut theory usually also support the TEST = CFC theory. The blue donut attacked the blue donut. It was also aided by other part of the blue donuts who weere helping the blue donut defend against the blue donut. Part of the blue donut was also put under contract by the blue donut.
I'm hungry for some donuts now...
Ruby Porto: And your system is supposed to help stop the imagined "blue donut"?
What?! What "blue donut"? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
The blue donut, you know; the organization that is wiping the second largest, most powerful alliance (Test Alliance Please Ignore) in New Eden completely off the map despite the intervention of quite a few other large, powerful alliances. |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2013.08.07 19:51:00 -
[300] - Quote
you know in civilized countries a donut looks like a ring, not like a crescent that's why literally everyone in EVE besides yourself is talking about all of sov 0.0 when they're speak of the mythical "blue donut" but don't let that stop you from redefining "blue donut" as "CFC"
(also TEST is the largest alliance if you go by members, and somewhere in the also-ran category if you go by any other metric, but certainly nowhere near "second" or "most powerful") |
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