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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kitty Baugh
Pelican. Cult of War
4
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:03:00 -
[121] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:Sarah McKnobbo wrote:Kitty Baugh wrote: Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Umm CFC lost a titan the other day and TiDi worked against them, slowing their logging, forming and reacting so, no, not really. And the failed titan gank was more to do with the fact it was in a staging system, allowing quick response time for the rescuers. Stop talking about last nights failed titan gank please my original post was an example of how Tidi works against smaller forces Aparrantly a lot of people fail at reading. |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
68
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:06:00 -
[122] - Quote
Back before TiDi, everything I heard about nullsec made me think that many alliances had a standard operating procedure of: "If the node is running fine, we didn't bring enough ships". Every time CCP did something to improve performance, it worked for a short while. Then fleet numbers increased until problems happened again.
I spent my time in faction warfare. Lowsec had, and still has, a reputation for running on the worst hardware CCP has. Even worse, without reinforcement timers, there was no way to predict which system a large battle would happen in. Battles with less than 100 pilots in them would cause problems regularly. The winner in a fleet engagement was usually determined by who got hit worst by the node failing.
My first taste of FCing happened when the experienced FC realized that his overview was full of enemies that were no longer present. He decided that a completely inexperienced FC (me) was a better choice because, while I had no clue what I was doing, I still knew which enemies were still there to shoot at.
Sure, TiDi has its problems. But it is much better than the only alternative: The server tries to run at full speed and fails.
Alavaria Fera wrote:No, because EVE doesn't use parallel processing, you can't have multiple servers running the same thing. During 6VDT, the Jita node was not doing anything but running 6VDT, and that's the best hardware they have. It seems a bit odd that CCP only has one Jita quality node. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5713
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tidi works against the larger side too.
- Their titan gets tackled - Pings go out - They all start undocking from the same station causing 10% tidi in their system but not in the system where the titan is being killed - Titan is killed before anyone is able to load grid after undocking, much less join fleet and travel to where it is and save it. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
782
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:55:00 -
[124] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:That's right, I said it. I'll keep it pretty short:
Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Example: -Fleet of 250 bumps titan out of POS -Begins killing Titan, gets it to half armour before 100 of the enemy undock and warp to them -System gets tidi'd to **** -Before the fleet of 250 can finish killing the titan (Enemy fleet has no serious RR), Tidi goes to insane amounts -Before the enemy titan or enemy fleet can even be further dented because of how slow it is, enemy sends a ping out and gets hundreds more people online -More Tidi allows more people to get online -The people who are much smaller, but would've gotten a monumental victory then lose because Tidi gave their opponents much more time to get online, get organized and get into the fight
Inb4hisecpropvpersjumponthisthread
Solution: Kill Titan with 45 dudes - no TiDi
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Apocryphal Noise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:53:00 -
[125] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:It seems a bit odd that CCP only has one Jita quality node.
Not really, it's a multi-million dollar piece of equipment and CCP doesn't have a whole lot of money to throw around. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3927
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:02:00 -
[126] - Quote
Apocryphal Noise wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:It seems a bit odd that CCP only has one Jita quality node. Not really, it's a multi-million dollar piece of equipment and CCP doesn't have a whole lot of money to throw around. We'll just have to borrow it everytime nullsec has a major fight. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Apocryphal Noise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:11:00 -
[127] - Quote
Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python, there's going to be lag. |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1650
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:21:00 -
[128] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote: >Implying that there isnt already massive amounts of lag in large fleet battles *COUGH*6VDT*COUGH* pls.
Because CCP shouldn't have any lag in the largest MMO battle to ever occur in the history of time. Amirite?! "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5713
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 07:44:00 -
[129] - Quote
Apocryphal Noise wrote:Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python, there's going to be lag. It doesn't matter what language it's written in. You could write the whole thing in assembly, it'll still lag. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
76522
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Not sure if you're aware, but little in EVE favors the smaller side.
And We'll get kicked too the side when off grid boosting goes away.... At the Moment our Only defense against a Bigger Fleet
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Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
68
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Not sure if you're aware, but little in EVE favors the smaller side.
And We'll get kicked too the side when off grid boosting goes away.... At the Moment our Only defense against a Bigger Fleet How is off grid boosting an advantage to the little guys when the big fleets can also use it ? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3780
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:57:00 -
[132] - Quote
Apocryphal Noise wrote:Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python magical space pixie code, there's going to be lag.
FYP This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3405
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Posted - 2013.07.31 08:16:00 -
[133] - Quote
Why can't you people think things through before you impulsively create threads that make you look like dumb people? :( |
Sarah McKnobbo
Omamori Himari Pandora Hearts
9
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Posted - 2013.07.31 08:30:00 -
[134] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:Kitty Baugh wrote:Sarah McKnobbo wrote:Kitty Baugh wrote: Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Umm CFC lost a titan the other day and TiDi worked against them, slowing their logging, forming and reacting so, no, not really. And the failed titan gank was more to do with the fact it was in a staging system, allowing quick response time for the rescuers. Stop talking about last nights failed titan gank please my original post was an example of how Tidi works against smaller forces Aparrantly a lot of people fail at reading.
Huh? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11044
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:44:00 -
[135] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:That's right, I said it. I'll keep it pretty short:
Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Example: -Fleet of 250 bumps titan out of POS -Begins killing Titan, gets it to half armour before 100 of the enemy undock and warp to them -System gets tidi'd to **** -Before the fleet of 250 can finish killing the titan (Enemy fleet has no serious RR), Tidi goes to insane amounts -Before the enemy titan or enemy fleet can even be further dented because of how slow it is, enemy sends a ping out and gets hundreds more people online -More Tidi allows more people to get online -The people who are much smaller, but would've gotten a monumental victory then lose because Tidi gave their opponents much more time to get online, get organized and get into the fight
Inb4hisecpropvpersjumponthisthread
What you're complaining about isn't TiDi but server overloading (colloquially known as "lag")
TiDi is a way of managing and mitgating the effects of that overloading. It gives no particular advantage to larger or smaller sides. Complaining that TiDi causes the problems you refer to is like complaining that it always seems to be raining when you stand under an umbrella.
1 Kings 12:11
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baltec1
Bat Country
7430
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:56:00 -
[136] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Not sure if you're aware, but little in EVE favors the smaller side.
And We'll get kicked too the side when off grid boosting goes away.... At the Moment our Only defense against a Bigger Fleet
Because big fleets dont also use off grid boosters |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:27:00 -
[137] - Quote
OP: "TiDi makes fights bigger by allowing more time to ping up."
Sounds pretty good :) |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
729
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 10:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote: -Before the enemy titan or enemy fleet can even be further dented because of how slow it is, enemy sends a ping out and gets hundreds more people online -More Tidi allows more people to get online
me personally would not get online to rescue some stupid titan. Would you?
Kitty Baugh wrote: -The people who are much smaller, but would've gotten a monumental victory then lose because Tidi gave their opponents much more time to get online, get organized and get into the fight
monumental victory = having spy (who allowed enemies into the POS shield), having stupid titan pilot (who didn't logoff of jump in time), having lazy and/or stupid enemies (who cannot defend their titan)?
I thought "monumental victory" has slightly different meaning
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Medarr
ZeroSec
69
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:43:00 -
[139] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Apocryphal Noise wrote:Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python, there's going to be lag. It doesn't matter what language it's written in. You could write the whole thing in assembly, it'll still lag.
Uhm... No. Due to python they can only run one system on a CPU if you can run one system on _All_ CPUs it would have plenty of power. |
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 10:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Trin Javidan wrote:This is why giving giving unlimeted amounts of isk to the biggest coalitions has been a bad thing, in the end of the day eve is still a numbers and isk game, have both and you win.... rinse and repeat... ruining the politic's landscape and thus the fun for years to come.... CCP you had been warned. Yeah, because BoB wasn't totally defeated by an upstart coalition with more guts than them, and almost no other advantage... (despite the wide rumor that BoB had devhaxx)
Loook mummy!! A dumm monkey responding who doesnt know were hes talking about... hahaha (me & mommy laughs)
Before you say something,... make sure you know where you talk about...
I guess CCP favours jung kiddies with daddies creditcards than older mature more loyal players. Cant really blame them $$$-wise. |
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
1243
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:59:00 -
[141] - Quote
one thing TiDi does amplify the suckyness of..
ECM !
Because of tidi Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15832
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Posted - 2013.07.31 11:03:00 -
[142] - Quote
Medarr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Apocryphal Noise wrote:Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python, there's going to be lag. It doesn't matter what language it's written in. You could write the whole thing in assembly, it'll still lag. Uhm... No. Due to python they can only run one system on a CPU if you can run one system on _All_ CPUs it would have plenty of power. GǪand you'll still have lag. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tidi works against the larger side too.
- Their titan gets tackled - Pings go out - They all start undocking from the same station causing 10% tidi in their system but not in the system where the titan is being killed - Titan is killed before anyone is able to load grid after undocking, much less join fleet and travel to where it is and save it.
That's not an example of TiDi working against either side. Since bother are under the affects of TiDi, there is no advantage, and the more prepared, aggressive side wins the engagement.
The reason that TiDi favors the party that is reacting is that they are more likely to have players incoming from systems that are not affected by TiDi. Those incoming players are acting 10 times faster than the players at the point of engagement.
It really becomes apparent when you extend the process. Let's say TiDi = 1% or even 0.00001%. With time almost at a stand-still for the attackers, the group with more players and resources to leverage overall has all the time they need to bring in enough logistics, firepower, ewar, etc. to completely turn the tide of the engagement. It is only "fair" when, as you point out in your example, all participants, direct, indirect, current, and future, are affected by TiDi in the same way. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
688
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:35:00 -
[144] - Quote
Trin Javidan wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Trin Javidan wrote:This is why giving giving unlimeted amounts of isk to the biggest coalitions has been a bad thing, in the end of the day eve is still a numbers and isk game, have both and you win.... rinse and repeat... ruining the politic's landscape and thus the fun for years to come.... CCP you had been warned. Yeah, because BoB wasn't totally defeated by an upstart coalition with more guts than them, and almost no other advantage... (despite the wide rumor that BoB had devhaxx) Loook mummy!! A dumm monkey responding who doesnt know were hes talking about... hahaha (me & mommy laughs) Before you say something,... make sure you know where you talk about... I guess CCP favours jung kiddies with daddies creditcards than older mature more loyal players. Cant really blame them $$$-wise.
Umm... is there actually a point in there, or were you just babbling again?
Basically, you're talking out your ass. If you'd care to stop making a fool of yourself, extract your head out of your fourth point of contact and do it.
But your basic point is pure nonsense. If even anything you said in the post I quoted above was true, BoB would still have a stranglehold on much of nullsec. They don't(in fact they were destroyed years ago). Thus, you are wrong.
Care to try again? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
740
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
Maybe people should just expect systems to enter TiDi and plan accordingly, there is no prize for second place and forum whining is not going to change anything. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Djana Libra
DAB Black Legion.
262
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
Yeah well that was the aftermath of that horrible expansion called dominion which introduced 4 times as much lag as it had.
TiDi is better than lag even though it needs some work imho. |
Chaos Hellbreth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:10:00 -
[147] - Quote
I was thinking about this last night (actually, I had a dream about it). TiDi actually gives the smaller side a chance to bring balanced numbers to the fight as well. While the system that the titan is in might be dilated to hell and back again, the rest of the region isn't, giving the smaller side a chance to call for backup from surrounding systems where (if the corp/alliance is at all decently organized) they can assemble one system over and then jump/bridge in to support the titan.
The issue with TiDi I think is the point at which it "kicks in". Let me say that I am not a computer engineer so I don't know how feasible this is, but if they could set it up so that the load time to enter a system (either by jumping into the system or bridging in) was not effected by dilation (which is basically artificially induced lag so that everyone is operating at the same level, or at least that is the intent though it doesn't seem to actually work all that well IMO) that would help balance the numbers issue, though not necessarily the effectiveness of one side relative the other.
What I think should be done, personally, (and again, I don't know how feasible this is), is for TiDi to be a region-wide "resource redistribution". Basically if system x of region y has 4000 people in it, all the other systems in the region dilate (in an inverse relationship to how many people are in the system, so a system with 0-5 players in it will dilate to a greater extent than a neighboring system with 100 people in it) in order for the server to allocate additional computing power to system x. System x might still dilate, but instead of dilating to 10%, maybe it would only dilate to say 50%, where the game is at least still reasonably playable and enjoyable. This also has various "meta-benefits", in that it allows one side to still reap the benefits of "surprise" (instead, under the current TiDi system, those advantages are lost because while only 1 minute might pass by in a dilated system, 30 minutes would go by in the neighboring systems giving the side that was taken by surprise ample time to bring in a fleet of reinforcements and neuter the effects of being caught with your pants down) because not only will the dilation not be quite as severe (hopefully) but the entire region will be, in effect, "locked down" making travel and thus reinforcement difficult, if not impossible. This shouldn't be an issue to two fleets in a pitched battle where both sides know whats coming, since the systems in which the two sides form up in shouldn't be hit by the dilation quite as hard and making the 1-2 jumps to the battlezone wouldn't be as severe as traveling from the other end of a region or even a neighboring region.
My .02 ISK anyway. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:52:00 -
[148] - Quote
Chaos Hellbreth wrote:super TiDi! Don't lag everyone in 6VDT-H. Lag EVERYONE! That's an interesting idea. I have a feeling someone at CCP thought of it already, though, and ruled it out because it would have "inconvenienced" people outside of the battles that cause TiDi to be a necessity. |
Velicitia
Aliastra
1577
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 16:02:00 -
[149] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Not sure if you're aware, but little in EVE favors the smaller side. EVE is really harsh. If you are ~elite pvp~ enough though then maybe you too can form an elite cadre, a true band of brothers that can
meh, nobody really liked BOB anyway... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3928
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Posted - 2013.07.31 16:07:00 -
[150] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Not sure if you're aware, but little in EVE favors the smaller side. EVE is really harsh. If you are ~elite pvp~ enough though then maybe you too can form an elite cadre, a true band of brothers that can meh, nobody really liked BOB anyway... What about N3, a coalition that exists to kill the CFC? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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