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Anabaric
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
38
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Posted - 2013.08.13 19:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Please note that bumping threads is not allowed in this forum. Off topic posts and posts not relevant to the discussions were removed.
Please stay on topic and constructive, thank you!
TY Phantom.
Community Manager for Battleclinic.com
CEO - The Bastards [Shadow Cartel] Blog link - www.imsdemon.pvp101.net |
Lucy Alfrir
The Lost Shadows Easily Excited
1
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Posted - 2013.08.13 19:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Just thought I'd chime in on this thread as the Rifter is definitely not much use any more.
Sure there's plenty of people still flying them but there's plenty of people do all kinds of stupid things.
Aside from armour tanking there is no fit on a rifter that wouldn't be better on a slasher, and armour tanking means no damage mods which for an attack frigate seems bad.
The Rifter would be a significantly better ship with Randy (the OP)'s modifications, or the ones suggested by Anabaric. The only other suggestion I have is to give the rifter fitting bonuses for projectile weapons. This is more in keeping with it's role but effectively achieves the same as a pg/cpu increase but only if you fit projectiles. This doesn't seem too rediculous given the role bonus on the slasher.
Having said that Assault Frigates have a role bonus of mwd sig bloom reduction. This would be of more use on a rifter if it had enough pg/cpu to easily fit one.
Personally I hope CCP drag their heels on this for a while as then the price of the rifter should crash and I can start using them as disposable shuttle gank boats. |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
55
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:there was a reason that the rifter was so popular there was a reason they buffed all frigates accept the rifter
+1 for logic. |
Randy Wray
SUPER GOOSE SQUAD Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
48
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:there was a reason that the rifter was so popular there was a reason they buffed all frigates accept the rifter +1 for logic. Logic? What kinda alternative universe do you live in? The only thing that put the rifter (and other minmatar ships like the cane and rupture) ahead of it's counterparts was the utility high. If you argue against this you've not done your homework. I spent countless hours EFTing and flying most of the frigates pre-rebalance (same with cruisers and battlecruisers) and they got fairly similar stats and alot of ships were actually superior to the rifter in performance. The cookie cutter rifter was so common because:
1. It required less skillpoints to fly effectively than other races frigates since it didn't need as many support skills like capacitor and fitting skills. Because of this stuff like rifter swarms became popular, because there was no other ship that a 3 day old noob could get as much performance out of as the rifter. 2. It was versatile, the cookie cutter NOS/SAR rifter fit is good at punching above its weight class, something that wasn't often seen among the rest of the frigates. However with this particular loadout you were most of the time worse off fighting other frigates. The rifter could also support both shield and armor tank loadouts.
Many of these problems were addressed before the frigate rebalance. Hybrid turrets got a reduction in fitting reqs and cap use and the explosion velocity of rockets were buffed making them a viable weapon system which made the kestrel super popular.
I'll say it again, there was no reason for the rifter to be left behind so badly. What you consider as logic is basically that the rifter should be left behind as some sort of punishment for being overly popular in the past? I didn't think that was how rebalancing was supposed to work. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec |
Anabaric
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
38
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Posted - 2013.08.13 22:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
The fact that there is no good close range fits, and that most options for using the bonus'd autocannons is actually sub optimal compared to fitting it with blasters/lasers. Community Manager for Battleclinic.com
CEO - The Bastards [Shadow Cartel] Blog link - www.imsdemon.pvp101.net |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
55
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Posted - 2013.08.13 22:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Pretty much what whitehound said. They change ships based on their usage within the player base not actual power. This is the reason the cane was nerfed even though it was a much worse brawler than many BCs and a way worse kiter than the tier 3s. It is also the reason that although the sacrilege is probably one of the best HAC's right now it's receiving the largest buff (or at least change) because it is one of the least used whereas the zealot isn't the greatest ship and is over shadowed by the omen navy, but is the most used so they aren't changing it aside from a few minor tweaks to stats.
Before the t1 frigate buff I'd say the merlin was more powerful than the rifter, but the rifter was way way way more common. Now you see all the frigates used and the rifter is still favored by many so there is variety and therefore CCP has done their job.
dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship.
Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far. |
Randy Wray
SUPER GOOSE SQUAD Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
49
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Posted - 2013.08.13 23:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Phaade wrote:God's Apples wrote:Pretty much what whitehound said. They change ships based on their usage within the player base not actual power. This is the reason the cane was nerfed even though it was a much worse brawler than many BCs and a way worse kiter than the tier 3s. It is also the reason that although the sacrilege is probably one of the best HAC's right now it's receiving the largest buff (or at least change) because it is one of the least used whereas the zealot isn't the greatest ship and is over shadowed by the omen navy, but is the most used so they aren't changing it aside from a few minor tweaks to stats.
Before the t1 frigate buff I'd say the merlin was more powerful than the rifter, but the rifter was way way way more common. Now you see all the frigates used and the rifter is still favored by many so there is variety and therefore CCP has done their job. dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship. Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far. Do you care to explain how it was the best? Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec |
Malango
Astro Defence Industry
15
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Posted - 2013.08.14 00:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Phaade wrote:
dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship.
Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far.
Now it's the best at nothing, all the other frigs are the best at something.
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Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
7
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Posted - 2013.08.14 12:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
A close range weapon system being out damaged by a long range weapon system without a way to get close without killing transversal can be a bit frustrating (ac rifter vs rail incursus). Love the ship, best thing that could happen to it without changing much was to give it more speed, make it faster please? :-)
CCP appears to balance things around popularity, not performance. The problem is that the Rifter is an EvE icon, lot's of them flying around, his popularity is now a curse.
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
864
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Posted - 2013.08.14 17:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:Phaade wrote:God's Apples wrote:Pretty much what whitehound said. They change ships based on their usage within the player base not actual power. This is the reason the cane was nerfed even though it was a much worse brawler than many BCs and a way worse kiter than the tier 3s. It is also the reason that although the sacrilege is probably one of the best HAC's right now it's receiving the largest buff (or at least change) because it is one of the least used whereas the zealot isn't the greatest ship and is over shadowed by the omen navy, but is the most used so they aren't changing it aside from a few minor tweaks to stats.
Before the t1 frigate buff I'd say the merlin was more powerful than the rifter, but the rifter was way way way more common. Now you see all the frigates used and the rifter is still favored by many so there is variety and therefore CCP has done their job. dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship. Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far. Do you care to explain how it was the best?
It was faster than other t1 frigates. It did more damage than other t1 frigates save for a few specialized cases in which case it only did slightly less. It had a very strong tank compared to other t1 frigates. It had very high range projection for a t1 frigate. It did all of these things at the same time
There were a couple of other t1 frigates that could potentially beat the Rifter in one of these things, but it would be far worse at everything else.
-A blaster Merlin or incursus would be kited with barrage. -A rail merlin or incursus would just get facehugged and murdered because they were significantly slower than the riftger -Punisher had 2 mids, fitting problems, and exceptionally mediocre damage. The Rifter could just fly up, orbit at 500, and kill it easily. Or, the Rifter could just leave at will, because..you know...no webs. and slow.
I like the Rifter (my corp is named for it). The Rifter is in fact underpowered and needs some buffs, but I can't imagine what kind of warped thought process led you to thinking that the Rifter was even remotely balanced before tiericide. |
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Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
58
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Randy Wray wrote:Phaade wrote:God's Apples wrote:Pretty much what whitehound said. They change ships based on their usage within the player base not actual power. This is the reason the cane was nerfed even though it was a much worse brawler than many BCs and a way worse kiter than the tier 3s. It is also the reason that although the sacrilege is probably one of the best HAC's right now it's receiving the largest buff (or at least change) because it is one of the least used whereas the zealot isn't the greatest ship and is over shadowed by the omen navy, but is the most used so they aren't changing it aside from a few minor tweaks to stats.
Before the t1 frigate buff I'd say the merlin was more powerful than the rifter, but the rifter was way way way more common. Now you see all the frigates used and the rifter is still favored by many so there is variety and therefore CCP has done their job. dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship. Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far. Do you care to explain how it was the best? It was faster than other t1 frigates. It did more damage than other t1 frigates save for a few specialized cases in which case it only did slightly less. It had a very strong tank compared to other t1 frigates. It had very high range projection for a t1 frigate. It did all of these things at the same timeThere were a couple of other t1 frigates that could potentially beat the Rifter in one of these things, but it would be far worse at everything else. -A blaster Merlin or incursus would be kited with barrage. -A rail merlin or incursus would just get facehugged and murdered because they were significantly slower than the riftger -Punisher had 2 mids, fitting problems, and exceptionally mediocre damage. The Rifter could just fly up, orbit at 500, and kill it easily. Or, the Rifter could just leave at will, because..you know...no webs. and slow. I like the Rifter (my corp is named for it). The Rifter is in fact underpowered and needs some buffs, but I can't imagine what kind of warped thought process led you to thinking that the Rifter was even remotely balanced before tiericide.
Answered for me, appreciated.
The Rifter WAS overpowered. Now it's arguably underpowered, but it can still do some things decently. Dual rep armor fit isn't too bad.
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Randy Wray
SUPER GOOSE SQUAD Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
53
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Randy Wray wrote:Phaade wrote:God's Apples wrote:Pretty much what whitehound said. They change ships based on their usage within the player base not actual power. This is the reason the cane was nerfed even though it was a much worse brawler than many BCs and a way worse kiter than the tier 3s. It is also the reason that although the sacrilege is probably one of the best HAC's right now it's receiving the largest buff (or at least change) because it is one of the least used whereas the zealot isn't the greatest ship and is over shadowed by the omen navy, but is the most used so they aren't changing it aside from a few minor tweaks to stats.
Before the t1 frigate buff I'd say the merlin was more powerful than the rifter, but the rifter was way way way more common. Now you see all the frigates used and the rifter is still favored by many so there is variety and therefore CCP has done their job. dude, the most common ship is 99% of the time the most powerful ship. Obviously others excel in specialized area's, however in general, the rifter was the best....by far. Do you care to explain how it was the best? It was faster than other t1 frigates. It did more damage than other t1 frigates save for a few specialized cases in which case it only did slightly less. It had a very strong tank compared to other t1 frigates. It had very high range projection for a t1 frigate. It did all of these things at the same timeThere were a couple of other t1 frigates that could potentially beat the Rifter in one of these things, but it would be far worse at everything else. -A blaster Merlin or incursus would be kited with barrage. -A rail merlin or incursus would just get facehugged and murdered because they were significantly slower than the riftger -Punisher had 2 mids, fitting problems, and exceptionally mediocre damage. The Rifter could just fly up, orbit at 500, and kill it easily. Or, the Rifter could just leave at will, because..you know...no webs. and slow. I like the Rifter (my corp is named for it). The Rifter is in fact underpowered and needs some buffs, but I can't imagine what kind of warped thought process led you to thinking that the Rifter was even remotely balanced before tiericide. The reason I asked him to explain was the only thing he's been posting in this thread was essentially "rifter op nerf pls". I was trying to make him post a more comprehensive explanation of his opinions in the matter. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec |
Anabaric
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 13:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
In the hurricane thread the subject was brought up about buffing T2 autocannon ammunition, how do you feel about that as a solution?
Would that risk making any other ship "op" The thrasher/vaga are arguably still class leading, and this could cause issues there? Community Manager for Battleclinic.com
CEO - The Bastards [Shadow Cartel] Blog link - www.imsdemon.pvp101.net |
Lucy Alfrir
The Lost Shadows Easily Excited
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 16:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Anabaric wrote:In the hurricane thread the subject was brought up about buffing T2 autocannon ammunition, how do you feel about that as a solution?
Would that risk making any other ship "op" The thrasher/vaga are arguably still class leading, and this could cause issues there?
I was considering this as a solution. Both null (or do I mean void?) & scorch seriously outperform barrage which is why a blaster or laser rifter outperforms the AC type. That this is true despite the projectile hull bonus surely means barrage needs a buff. |
Blastil
The Reblier Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 19:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:battleclinic-ers recently had a contest to figure out the best possible rifter fits in the current setup. Almost every setup could be done better by a slasher, with the winner being a laser boat with scorch (lol). Based on this contest and the results I think it's safe to say a change is in order: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,178086.0/topicseen.htmlbut aside from that, I too would like the rifter to be back in my hangar. Looks awesome (as does the slasher), but nothing much to use it for currently.
Asking people on battleclinic to make good fits is like asking a quadriplegic to represent your country in the Olympic long jump. Making conclusions from data gathered there is just as foolish. |
Zakeus Djinn
Who Called In The Fleet
2
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Posted - 2013.08.16 20:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
I think the rifter should get a falloff bonus or get its rate of fire bonus back. The falloff bonus would give it better projection and dps at range than the slasher with some additional hp, at the cost of speed. It should probably get an hp increase either way. |
Anabaric
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
38
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Posted - 2013.08.17 01:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:battleclinic-ers recently had a contest to figure out the best possible rifter fits in the current setup. Almost every setup could be done better by a slasher, with the winner being a laser boat with scorch (lol). Based on this contest and the results I think it's safe to say a change is in order: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,178086.0/topicseen.htmlbut aside from that, I too would like the rifter to be back in my hangar. Looks awesome (as does the slasher), but nothing much to use it for currently. Asking people on battleclinic to make good fits is like asking a quadriplegic to represent your country in the Olympic long jump. Making conclusions from data gathered there is just as foolish.
Please feel free to provide a "better" rifter fit than the ones posted for the competition... Community Manager for Battleclinic.com
CEO - The Bastards [Shadow Cartel] Blog link - www.imsdemon.pvp101.net |
Randy Wray
SUPER GOOSE SQUAD Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
53
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Posted - 2013.08.17 01:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:battleclinic-ers recently had a contest to figure out the best possible rifter fits in the current setup. Almost every setup could be done better by a slasher, with the winner being a laser boat with scorch (lol). Based on this contest and the results I think it's safe to say a change is in order: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,178086.0/topicseen.htmlbut aside from that, I too would like the rifter to be back in my hangar. Looks awesome (as does the slasher), but nothing much to use it for currently. Asking people on battleclinic to make good fits is like asking a quadriplegic to represent your country in the Olympic long jump. Making conclusions from data gathered there is just as foolish. I like how you draw this conclusion purely from prejudice and your own few bad experiences with the community. Alot of people have problems with the battleclinic community but I've been a regular there for more than 2 years and there are plenty of people there that come up with very good fits.
Maybe you should actually look through the contest results next time, maybe you'll be positively surprised what the community can accomplish :) Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
281
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Posted - 2013.08.17 03:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:battleclinic-ers recently had a contest to figure out the best possible rifter fits in the current setup. Almost every setup could be done better by a slasher, with the winner being a laser boat with scorch (lol). Based on this contest and the results I think it's safe to say a change is in order: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,178086.0/topicseen.htmlbut aside from that, I too would like the rifter to be back in my hangar. Looks awesome (as does the slasher), but nothing much to use it for currently. Asking people on battleclinic to make good fits is like asking a quadriplegic to represent your country in the Olympic long jump. Making conclusions from data gathered there is just as foolish.
I'd like to see you post a better fit to back this it up. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Vayn Baxtor
Ultra High Ping Crew Spears of Destiny
74
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Posted - 2013.08.17 06:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Battleclinic or not, I am not a BC'goer and can clearly say that the Rifter is not complete as it stands. And when one starts comparing it with Slasher, it will lose most of the time. There are simple suggestions to fix that and it is not asking for something overpowered (and frakk that word while we're at it). Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2697
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
I have removed an inappropriate comment from this thread. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
137
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
One of the things I saw passing was to speed it up a little. Given it's current tracking bonus, that would be quite a nice solution because it would give some more use to the tracking bonus against droneless frigs. However, I think this would just make it a Slasher and I wonder if that would actually be a solution, I'd rather think of that 'solution' as moving the problem somewhere else.
Instead I'd prefer to see the tracking to be changed to ROF, as proposed before. This would make it a unique ship for the Minmatar with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
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Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
7
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Posted - 2013.08.20 01:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Do not remove the tracking. If the ideia is to boost dps just switch damage with rof. The thing I would like the most was a speed boost, but a combat frig should not touch the speed of an attack frig, so the speed boost would have to be a very small one (5-15m/sec).
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Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
548
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Posted - 2013.08.20 08:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rifter is fine.
You lot who whine that it's underpowered just need to actually learn how to fit and fly the thing rather than just stick up the old cookie cutter fit and expect to own everyone.
When you can fit it to do 175 dps, tank 85 dps and fly at 1.3km/s a LOT of people get really surpised when they die to it!
And those dual repped incursus get really annoyed when you pop them with your pathetic 125mm auto's.
Get over it you lot and grow a pair That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
170
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Posted - 2013.08.20 09:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:The Rifter was my first pvp ship. I read wensley's rifter drifter guide and went out to lose some rifters and had a blast. It saddens me to see this beloved ship to be in such poor shape in todays meta. CCP buffed all the other frigates to the skies and left the Rifter behind. I think CCP should take another look at it and make it more diverse from the slasher.
There's some confusion around how strong the rifter was before the frigate rebalancing. I flew the rifter for 2 years prior to the rebalancing and I was beat by plenty of the other tier 3 frigates. The Merlin was very strong back then already, I lost plenty of rifters to merlins and yet CCP chose to buff it even further. Kestrels were extremely strong in the pre-rebalancing frigate meta since most of the pvp able frigates were turret based and the kestrel could kite these with a dualweb rocket setup very efficiently. The Punisher was very much the same back then as it is now and the inqusitor was a missile frigate extremely underused minding how powerfull it could be in the hands of a good pilot. I met a brawling inquisitor once during my 2 years of flying rifters and it was one of the closest fights I've ever had.
My point here is, just because the rifter was the one that was the most commonly used tech 1 frigates didn't mean it was OP and since it wasn't really OP there was no reason for it to be left behind so badly in the frigate rebalance.
If you look at the rifter today in the t1 frigate meta it's pretty much crap at everything, it's like the old ferox - it can do alot of things but does none of them good. It doesn't have the speed of an attack frigate, it doesnt have the tank of a combat frigate and it doesn't have much gank to speak of either. What used to make the rifter strong was it's ability to project damage further than blaster boats while being able to make a decent tank at the same time as having a decent range control. Right now it has worse projection than blaster frigs loading null even if you load barrage(you have to get outside scram range for autocannons to win the projection game). For new minmatar players skilling into projectiles the slasher is the superior choice in every matter. It has higher speed, similar tank,the same dps if the rifter doesnt fit a rocket launcher which makes little difference anyway, a role bonus that makes it easier on cap, a better slot layout and a smaller signature radius.
The only competetive fit I've come up with for the rifter lately is 280mm artillery. This fit however needs very high SP to work as it plays on the fact that the rifter has higher base powergrid than the slasher and is able to run a microwarpdrive and warp disruptor without cap problems(assuming you have max capacitor skills). I've got a buddey that fits light neutron blasters on a rifter and sadly it works better than autocannons.
TLDR For a solution I propose the following:
1, Change the skill bonuses from damage and tracking to damage and rate of fire to follow a common minmatar trend or damage and fallof to establish it's role as an attack ship and make it differ from the slasher. 2. Change its slot layout - remove the useless utility high(if you like the utility high I advice you fly a slasher instead, it makes better use of it - dat capstable neut) and replace it with a low or medium slot. 3. Increase its base speed to 375 m/s (this is important)
have you ever considered trying to fly a rifter like a miniature version of the old typhoon? fit x2 125mm auto, x2 rockets, x1 mwd, x1 scram, x1 web, x1 dc, x1 adaptive nano plate, x1 400mm rolleed tungsten, x2 acr rig, x1 explosive armour rig, has good tank good damage and good range control, try taking ships out their fitting comfort zones, eg laser harpy, and yes they work really well Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
7
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Posted - 2013.08.20 10:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Rifter is fine. You lot who whine that it's underpowered just need to actually learn how to fit and fly the thing rather than just stick up the old cookie cutter fit and expect to own everyone. When you can fit it to do 175 dps, tank 85 dps and fly at 1.3km/s a LOT of people get really surpised when they die to it! And those dual repped incursus get really annoyed when you pop them with your pathetic 125mm auto's. Get over it you lot and grow a pair
I know that rifter is not so underpowered as most people make it but I'm also aware of his limitations. One thing is to like to be the underdog (which in fact I do), another is to be blind. And why those numbers? Did at least you compared those numbers with what other combat frigs can achieve? merlin, incursus, tormentor? Only thing rifter wins is in speed, and the speed advantage is very small when compared to the rest (dps/ehp/tank).
Things are way easier in a breacher, but I still prefer to fly the rifter, some kills you can get with the breacher only feel like *meh*, while the same kill with the rifter feels like it was worth *double points*. I really don't want the superior rifter of old, but a minor buff in his speed would make it less "difficult" to fly against certain targets.
And get over yourself, it is not only you who have experience in flying and killing stuff with rifters. |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
7
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Posted - 2013.08.20 10:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote: have you ever considered trying to fly a rifter like a miniature version of the old typhoon? fit x2 125mm auto, x2 rockets, x1 mwd, x1 scram, x1 web, x1 dc, x1 adaptive nano plate, x1 400mm rolleed tungsten, x2 acr rig, x1 explosive armour rig, has good tank good damage and good range control, try taking ships out their fitting comfort zones, eg laser harpy, and yes they work really well
EErrrr no, you do not have good damage and you do not have good range control with a 400 plate and an explosive armor rig. I can still see that fit working against a small number of ships whose pilots do not what they are doing, but it is very limited against all the rest.
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Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
170
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Posted - 2013.08.20 13:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Grunnax Aurelius wrote: have you ever considered trying to fly a rifter like a miniature version of the old typhoon? fit x2 125mm auto, x2 rockets, x1 mwd, x1 scram, x1 web, x1 dc, x1 adaptive nano plate, x1 400mm rolleed tungsten, x2 acr rig, x1 explosive armour rig, has good tank good damage and good range control, try taking ships out their fitting comfort zones, eg laser harpy, and yes they work really well
EErrrr no, you do not have good damage and you do not have good range control with a 400 plate and an explosive armor rig, but it's a goot bait ship. I can still see that fit working against a small number of ships whose pilots do not what they are doing, but it is very limited against all the rest.
i never said it wasnt target selective, but it works man, looks stupid but its not stupid. Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Taoist Dragon
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
548
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Posted - 2013.08.20 21:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Rifter is fine. You lot who whine that it's underpowered just need to actually learn how to fit and fly the thing rather than just stick up the old cookie cutter fit and expect to own everyone. When you can fit it to do 175 dps, tank 85 dps and fly at 1.3km/s a LOT of people get really surpised when they die to it! And those dual repped incursus get really annoyed when you pop them with your pathetic 125mm auto's. Get over it you lot and grow a pair I know that rifter is not so underpowered as most people make it but I'm also aware of his limitations. One thing is to like to be the underdog (which in fact I do), another is to be blind. And why those numbers? Did at least you compared those numbers with what other combat frigs can achieve? merlin, incursus, tormentor? Only thing rifter wins is in speed, and the speed advantage is very small when compared to the rest (dps/ehp/tank). Things are way easier in a breacher, but I still prefer to fly the rifter, some kills you can get with the breacher only feel like *meh*, while the same kill with the rifter feels like it was worth *double points*. I really don't want the superior rifter of old, but a minor buff in his speed would make it less "difficult" to fly against certain targets. And get over yourself, it is not only you who have experience in flying and killing stuff with rifters.
Completely agree Urkhan mate,
I am also not blind to the place that the rifter has been put after the rebalances. I do these posts with a large amount of bravardo and sarcasm becasue I'm bored with all the people constantly whining about how useless the rifter is nowadays when in fact it is anything but useless. The vast majority of people complaining about the rifter are scrubs who still want to be able to fit a cookie cutter and go out a cream people like they could before rather than actually learning how to fly thier chosen ship, just lazy IMO.
I am actually really bad at pvp in general but I really enjoy flying the rifter it is just not 'easy mode' for frig pvp now and I personally believe that this is a much better place overall for frig pvp than before.
BUT. It is a jack of all trades and the more specialised combat frigates will beat it at their own game but the flexibility it offers is far greater than the other combat frigs. So target selection is key to using the rifter now more than every before (but in all honesty has always been the key to frig pvp)
Those number specifically because it is a fit I have used that rely's on speed and being able to hit a lot harder than most people expect from the rifter. I fly all the frigs now to varying degrees of failure so I am perfectly aware of the number that other can generate. But the key to those numbers is the knowledge on how to 'apply' them. An incursus with 200dps tank and 200dps out means jack squat if it has no cap to actually use those number or has no range control so it can't hit out to the range (and if it can reach that far it's numbers are drastically reduced.) People who rely just on the numbers are just setting themselves up for disapointment when they get owned by something they 'should have beaten easily', pretty much a conversation I have with everyone who I have killed in a rifter. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Murat Kutosov
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
0
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Posted - 2013.08.20 23:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
IMO a reasonable solution that would preserve the Rifter's trademark versatility / flavor would be to...
Wait for it...
Switch it to a 2/4/4 configuration with either double damage bonus or ROF/tracking and 2 drones
Once again a sexy and interesting ship that can go shield gank or armor+tackle+EWAR
Done.
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