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Snaggletooth Slackjaw
Banana Moon Industries Rim Worlds Protectorate
24
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Posted - 2013.07.31 17:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
Also.......most (but not all) wardecs involve the agressors sitting at trade hubs (Hek, Rens, Jita, Amarr, Dodixie) or within a jump or two, looking for soft targets.
If you aren't looking for a fight, stay away from trade hubs when at war, sell your ore for slighly cheaper at quieter high-sec systems. CEO, Banana Moon Industries. |
Atkins Friendly
NightWatch Ind
19
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Darius Onok wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:More importantly as a new playing a corp it is the responsibility of corp alliance members to make sure people are aware of what is going on. In other words, newbie, either you are a hard-head and you didn't listen when people were telling you things you needed to know, or, the corporation you are a member of did not bother to tell you that your ship and pod would be subject to aggression from certain other groups, anywhere and at any time. What you should probably do is leave your corporation immediately and do not join another one until you are ready to actively gather the information you need to survive. That starts with knowing the corp you are joining. If your current corp didn't bother to tell you, newbie, that you were at war, then that is a major dereliction on their part. I also don't understand why you are here in the first place. Do you not communicate with your corpmates? They should be the ones answering these questions and explaining what happened. If they don't do that, then what good are they to you? Why did you join them? Yes! How dare he come to the New Citizens Q&A forums to ask questions that he doesn't know about. If it corp/alliance couldn't be bothered to instruct him about the fact they were in a war/give him tips on how to avoid that what makes you think they can be bothered to help him after the fact?
Gotta give the newby props for genuinely wanting to figure out what he did wrong and what he can do now. I wanna say 50% of the new guys in Eve would probably just quit after that. The guy has lost tons of ships and pods in the past month and he still hasnt quit. Thats shows quite a bit of character in this game :). |
Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
As a newbie messing around - even in lowsec space - my general rule has been to never fly something I couldn't buy ten more of with what's in my wallet. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Soloman Jackson wrote:lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:William Walker wrote:Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Lesson learned, I hope. How to avoid this? Don't autopilot if you don't need to. Put some more tanky on your shippy. And after this post, you seem nice, I am sure some people will help you out. Godspeed. What kind of tank is good for a mining barge? Is there a mining barge that is more tanky than the retriever? Yeah, the procurer. You can get 40k+ ehp on those things. i'm not sure 40k ehp will save you from a blaster thorax. in any case, you should know that losing ships is part of this game. if you get upset just because someone killed, EVE might not be the right game for you. as for safer mining, using a procurer will at least make it harder to gank you. being in a less busy system than hek is also a good idea. lastly it pays off to orbit an asteroid while mining, because this makes it harder for the ganker to warp in close to you. obviously, you should watch the overview for potentially dangerous players and try to warp out if you see them landing on grid. I will keep this in mind. I understand losing ships is part of the game, I guess I am frustrated because I dumped all of my assets into a single ship (mistake number one) my second mistake is using my barge to haul ore.
Your 1st mistake was mining while at War. Of course you know that now.
Second mistake was flying a Ret with no tank at all Some will say that it is impossible to tank a Ret against being ganked and they are partly correct. You can tank it so that it takes more than two really cheap Cats to kill it.
I don't gank procurors simply because it is too much of a pain in the backside. I will gank anything that I can do with 2 cheap Catalysts however. Heck, even if a miner has made a concerted effort to tank their barge, I'll usually give it a pass. I like to gank stupidity.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Hiroshige Utagawa
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zemo Walden wrote:Don't know if anyone has said this, but you can leave a corp at any time, if you go to the corp info / players you can right click your name and leave. It will place you in a NPC controlled corp again like at the start with the school corps etc. Good luck Echo this. If you are back in your school corps, you'll have Concord protection in hi-sec space and can mine to your hearts content until you find a corp that is not terrible. |
lieutenant scumlorddd
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
0
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Atkins Friendly wrote:Darius Onok wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:More importantly as a new playing a corp it is the responsibility of corp alliance members to make sure people are aware of what is going on. In other words, newbie, either you are a hard-head and you didn't listen when people were telling you things you needed to know, or, the corporation you are a member of did not bother to tell you that your ship and pod would be subject to aggression from certain other groups, anywhere and at any time. What you should probably do is leave your corporation immediately and do not join another one until you are ready to actively gather the information you need to survive. That starts with knowing the corp you are joining. If your current corp didn't bother to tell you, newbie, that you were at war, then that is a major dereliction on their part. I also don't understand why you are here in the first place. Do you not communicate with your corpmates? They should be the ones answering these questions and explaining what happened. If they don't do that, then what good are they to you? Why did you join them? Yes! How dare he come to the New Citizens Q&A forums to ask questions that he doesn't know about. If it corp/alliance couldn't be bothered to instruct him about the fact they were in a war/give him tips on how to avoid that what makes you think they can be bothered to help him after the fact? Gotta give the newby props for genuinely wanting to figure out what he did wrong and what he can do now. I wanna say 50% of the new guys in Eve would probably just quit after that. The guy has lost tons of ships and pods in the past month and he still hasnt quit. Thats shows quite a bit of character in this game :).
I know and im getting tired of dying ;-)
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lieutenant scumlorddd
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
0
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
@Snaggletooth Slackjaw I did some more research these guys are based out of Rens, I plan on avoiding these hubs in the future. Excellent advice |
lieutenant scumlorddd
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
0
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Posted - 2013.08.01 06:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thanks for all the help guys, I now have some information to keep safe and a brand new retriever fitted more appropriately. |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Archdaimon wrote:Your only mistake was to join a horribly bad alliance.
If they can't even instruct new player how to avoid war decs or fight back.
Leave
Asap
and find a better corp.
His alliance is called Flying Dangerous... What's in a name eh?
Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:@Gizznitt Malikite
EC-300 drones, this sounds very useful. I needed a way to generate isk to support that expensive pvp habit that is the reason I worked my way up to a mining barge. I have looked on battleclinc and found a more appropriate fit, and will go with the procurer. I like the increased odds of suvival.
Battleclinic offers some of the worst fits in EVE. Do not rely on that site for fits. Go read the EVE university wiki, you will find loads of advice and new player fits on there. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
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Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.01 13:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Just another newb observation.
I've been getting in the habit of looking on my star map for ships killed in the last hour and I've noticed a pattern.
There's a LOT more dying going on in HIGH SEC than low sec.
Zoom out on the map, and you'll see some nasty null sec hotspots (which I presume are from the big alliances pummeling each other). But the big hotspots are mostly in high sec. Trade hubs like Jita are particularly bad.
I suppose some of this can be attributed to suicide ganking, and trolling nonsense like can-flipping and the like. But surely not all of it. Some of those high sec systems show big numbers like 73 kills in the last hour. That can't just be suicide ganking.
Then it occurred to me that I was probably looking at the results of war-decking. Corporations getting war-decked and then massive slaughters. I could be wrong, but that's the only idea that makes sense to me.
If this is true though.... It makes me think that high sec is probably the most dangerous space in the game to have a little corporation, or be a part of one.
Just another reason to get into low sec or wormholes as soon as I can. |
Othran
Route One
580
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Most of those highsec "hotspots" are tutorial systems and what you're seeing are (mainly) the losses from the combat (?) tutorial missions where you have to lose the ship. |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps Interstellar Online Network
157
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Worth noting: It is called Hek for a reason, because it is only one jump away from Hell. What is the security there, 0.5? Hek is a trade hub, yes, but it is also the de facto trade hub of low security pirates precisely because of it's appalling security. So anytime you fly anything into or out of there you are, by default, entering a very high risk zone. Therefore one should either fly things with massive amounts of hitpoints or very little value, because you can assume that the criminal element is going to be scanning everything going in and out of there. The gankers there are also a particularly toxic bunch and will attack things of no salvage value simply because it was shiny and they can get away with it. In other words they are not so much professional pirates as "tear collectors" that hang out there.
If you want the safest docking port then go to Amarr. 1.0 Security means minimum CONCORD response time, and being deep in Empire space it is slightly more difficult for the -10.0 types to get into. Amarr is the bulk goods trade hub, with quantity taking precedence over quality. In other words, the opposite of what pirates want to find in a wreck. All factors included, getting ganked whilst shipping to & fro Amarr practically requires either a special kind of stupidity or very determined personal enemies.
Dodixie would be your second best bet for similar reasons. Prices might be a tad higher, but if it is closer than Amarr or Jita then by all means use it. It is also one of the more interesting social hubs as well, and a good place to recruit pilots for various projects you might endeavor to undertake. All in all a very pleasant shopping experience.
Jita has high security but it's sheer mass draws in the more clever pirate types anyway - your real safety in Jita is simply the ease of disappearing into the perpetual cloud of ships already there. Of course ganking still happens in Jita, so there is still no excuse to try to bring in a billion ISK worth of items in an unescorted freighter. However the gankers there usually will not bother with anything less. Unlike Hek, the Jita pirates are professionals and thus are purely profit driven.
Rens is popular with Faction Warfare PvP types, but that does imply that they are actual pirates. Still far safer than Hek, of course, and acts as an unofficial border trading post between the Republic and the Empire. Prices are pretty horrifying, however.
Pator is still the hands-down best place for buying skills books of all kinds.
For those few of us who live in the Ammatar Mandate, Tanoo is the place to go for everything, assuming you're not a pirate. It's also incredibly safe, though that is more due to a simple lack of interest by the gankers than anything else. There is another, tiny system on the nullsec border that pirates like to shop at, but the name escapes me. The sound of the Amarrian heart |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps Interstellar Online Network
157
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Also... why on Earth would someone put cargo extenders of any kind on a mining barge? They do nothing to expand your ore hold and merely cost you precious hitpoints. In the old days before the barge changes then yes, they helped, but not any more. Just add either more mining laser upgrades or a damage control, depending on which direction you want to play it.
In the future I would recommend using defense rigs, if anything, to squeeze a little hitpoints out of the ship. Especially if you upgrade to a Procurer, as rigs will make a far greater difference with that than it would in a Retriever. The sound of the Amarrian heart |
Ekhss Nihilo
Ideal Machine
42
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 19:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Worth noting: It is called Hek for a reason, because it is only one jump away from Hell. What is the security there, 0.5? Hek is a trade hub, yes, but it is also the de facto trade hub of low security pirates precisely because of it's appalling security. So anytime you fly anything into or out of there you are, by default, entering a very high risk zone. Therefore one should either fly things with massive amounts of hitpoints or very little value, because you can assume that the criminal element is going to be scanning everything going in and out of there. The gankers there are also a particularly toxic bunch and will attack things of no salvage value simply because it was shiny and they can get away with it. In other words they are not so much professional pirates as "tear collectors" that hang out there.
If you want the safest docking port then go to Amarr. 1.0 Security means minimum CONCORD response time, and being deep in Empire space it is slightly more difficult for the -10.0 types to get into. Amarr is the bulk goods trade hub, with quantity taking precedence over quality. In other words, the opposite of what pirates want to find in a wreck. All factors included, getting ganked whilst shipping to & fro Amarr practically requires either a special kind of stupidity or very determined personal enemies.
Dodixie would be your second best bet for similar reasons. Prices might be a tad higher, but if it is closer than Amarr or Jita then by all means use it. It is also one of the more interesting social hubs as well, and a good place to recruit pilots for various projects you might endeavor to undertake. All in all a very pleasant shopping experience.
Jita has high security but it's sheer mass draws in the more clever pirate types anyway - your real safety in Jita is simply the ease of disappearing into the perpetual cloud of ships already there. Of course ganking still happens in Jita, so there is still no excuse to try to bring in a billion ISK worth of items in an unescorted freighter. However the gankers there usually will not bother with anything less. Unlike Hek, the Jita pirates are professionals and thus are purely profit driven.
Rens is popular with Faction Warfare PvP types, but that does imply that they are actual pirates. Still far safer than Hek, of course, and acts as an unofficial border trading post between the Republic and the Empire. Prices are pretty horrifying, however.
Pator is still the hands-down best place for buying skills books of all kinds.
For those few of us who live in the Ammatar Mandate, Tanoo is the place to go for everything, assuming you're not a pirate. It's also incredibly safe, though that is more due to a simple lack of interest by the gankers than anything else. There is another, tiny system on the nullsec border that pirates like to shop at, but the name escapes me.
Thank you for this very useful post. This represents a ton of information that would otherwise be hard to come by and only through hard-won experience. This is the sort of thing that is tremendously helpful to relatively new players like myself.
Corrollary: you have to want to know these things in order to profit from them. EVE doesn;t favor he incurious or the impatient. "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)
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Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 20:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Othran wrote:Most of those highsec "hotspots" are tutorial systems and what you're seeing are (mainly) the losses from the combat (?) tutorial missions where you have to lose the ship.
I already accounted for that. There's high death counts in more than just the tutorial systems. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
371
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 20:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
18. New player bashing will not be tolerated.
New members of the EVE Online community are encouraged to use, but are not restricted to the EVE New Citizens Q&A forum. This forum is specifically designed to provide a platform for those who are new to the EVE community to ask questions and learn more about EVE. More experienced forum users are encouraged to participate by assisting new players with helpful and courteous responses. All flaming, trolling and posts of a derogatory nature will be deleted, and will be considered a severe breach of the forum rules.
22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jewel Noret
Mexican Chicken Trucks
1
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Posted - 2013.08.01 21:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
What everyone else here seems to have missed is that you said you're mining to feed your pvp desires. And also that you're in a pvp corp. if that's truly the case, I have some recommendations. |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
87
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:New player here I am at my breaking point here and ready to give up on eve entirely. I started playing around three weeks ago. I have a fair understanding of the game. I have invested a lot of skill points into industry, and being able to fly a mining barge as people have stated this is a relatively safe way to earn ISK. I have dabbled around with Industry, Salvaging in null sec, Market, Secruity, etc.
So minding my own business, heading to Hek to drop off my Ore.. boom, ganked by a Thorax, nothing I could do.. No time to react..
*snip*Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal
I have invested time and resources into this ship and now I have next to nothing, back to square one in a venture. I have tried posted in the 21 day trial thread in hopes someone would create an account and I would be able to earn a plex to get back on my feet. My question is what am I to do? How can I get back on my feet? How do I avoid things like this in the future? If anyone wants to run some missions in game, or let me salvage in my venture please add me (lieutenant scumlorddd) is my in game name.
Fly safe! (safer than I did)
A couple of points:
1. You should probably mine in a place that has a station so you can drop your ore off and refine it for carrying 2. Most folks use a hauler rather than their mining boat for hauling ore or minerals to market 3. One of the other posters mentioned you were killed by a war target. Most miners take the week off or drop out of corp during a war deck if they plan to keep mining. Miners are the easiest prey for war decks in high sec. Miners tend to be semi afk at the best of times and can easily be caught and solo killed. If you plan to mine in eve be careful what corps you join. Many griefers target mining corps specifically for this reason |
lieutenant scumlorddd
Flying Dangerous
1
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Posted - 2013.08.01 22:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jewel Noret wrote:What everyone else here seems to have missed is that you said you're mining to feed your pvp desires. And also that you're in a pvp corp. if that's truly the case, I have some recommendations.
need a way to pay for ships i will lose |
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Norm Tempesta
The Konvergent League Sev3rance
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:Jewel Noret wrote:What everyone else here seems to have missed is that you said you're mining to feed your pvp desires. And also that you're in a pvp corp. if that's truly the case, I have some recommendations. need a way to pay for ships i will lose
If you wish to pvp, mission running should be a better way to make isk as the skill paths are about the same. By the time you work your way up to lvl 4 missions, you can also rat in nullsec for isk. |
Jewel Noret
Mexican Chicken Trucks
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
To the OP, you may want to scroll up. I just finished posting some info for you, but it's a few posts up as I am at work and ket getting interrupted. |
Elliavir
Kid's Logistics Inc Moose Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 04:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:Jewel Noret wrote:What everyone else here seems to have missed is that you said you're mining to feed your pvp desires. And also that you're in a pvp corp. if that's truly the case, I have some recommendations. need a way to pay for ships i will lose
Many people have alts that do different things - a character for mining/industry, a character for combat (missioning, PvP, etc.) and sometimes an alt dedicated to hauling.Characters in the NPC corps are safe from wardecs. It won't save them from potential suicide ganks in hi-sec (although this tread is full of good tips on that front), but it will let you go out earn some ISK in between battles in relative safety if your combat pilot is in the middle of a wardec. Or if you just like a bit of semi-mindless gameplay while working through your morning coffee.
One of the benefits of the Procurer that is sort of mentioned in the thread above is that if you are in a tanked Procurer, you are likely one of the least attractive targets in the belt. There are lots of other miners out there, most of them far easier to gank than you. It's not that you can't be ganked, but you require a lot more effort (and lost ISK) to do so. Unless someone is after you, personally, they are probably going to shoot the easier targets. |
lollerwaffle
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 10:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:The gankers there are also a particularly toxic bunch and will attack things of no salvage value simply because it was shiny and they can get away with it. In other words they are not so much professional pirates as "tear collectors" that hang out there. While the rest of your post is fairly helpful, the quoted mindset isn't the best thing to be passing on to new players.
Pirates/gankers whatever you call them are regular people just like you and me. Unless you're role-playing, there really isn't any reason to spew biased remarks like that. |
lieutenant scumlorddd
Flying Dangerous
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 15:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jewel Noret wrote:What everyone else here seems to have missed is that you said you're mining to feed your pvp desires. And also that you're in a pvp corp. if that's truly the case, I have some recommendations.
While you have little in the way of assets, it would be a great time to move to nullsec. Once there, you have a few great options for funding your pvp:
MINING Mining in null is generally considered much safer than high or low sec. Most sov olding alliances have dedicated areas to make isk in. Much of the time you will find there's a fleet up with boosting, which adds to your effectiveness. Local is easier to watch, and dscanning pretty much unecessary. When someone not blue enters system, warp to a safe or docks up. Safer, easier, and more lucrative than empire.
RATTING Once again, safer and more lucrative than in high or low sec. Not quite as boring as mining, and while the experience you gain doing it doesn't directly translate to pvp, some of it does, such as the familiarity with your combat ship, transversal speeds, the mechanics, uses, and limitations of your ships modules, etc. You can rat in belts or anomalies. You have allies close by to back you up. You may even get the opportunity to tag along with plex runners if you're social.
SALVAGING Maybe the lowest investment to get started on this one, and very profitable. You can quite effectively start out with a low cost destroyer, and in a few days time have a well fitted Noctis and spare isk in your wallet. Making 1 billion isk per week is not unheard of. Simply follow the anom runners around, as most don't bother looting or salvaging. You should just about always have all the salvage you can handle. I've known several new pilots who had more than 10b isk in their wallet by the time they were ready to start going on pvp ops, starting from less than 1 million skill points.
One of the big advantages of all of these for an aspiring pvper is that you are living and flying in null sec, along side other pvpers while earning great isk to fund your losses. Unless your copies are complete dbag snobs, you will be welcome on roams in super cheap tackling frigates while you learn and train up your skills. If you are short on funds and wanting to pvp, I really can't think of a better solution than any of the above.
Very helpful, thank you for the insightful post. I was not aware that I could make salvaging profitable.
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band
775
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 23:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
random thought moment, with an idea it may not prove to be a good idea but i'm happy to throw it out there and have people comment on it.
The change in recent change to mining ships made the cargo bay largely pointless as the ore you mine goes straight to the ore-bay a few mining crystals is all that's needed, and then only if your using T2 strip mining modules
An Ancillary Shield Booster might be a reasonable choice for the midslot extra capacitor charges can be stored in the cargo bay, giving it a 2nd purpose
it wont really help against war-target based attacks, but it might prove to be just enough to save you in highsec against a non war-based attack at some point ..
if your piloting an industrial ship, nothing is going to save you if your a viable 'war target' |
Brite
Czerka. WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 01:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Leiutenant,
Understand how you feel right now - but actually what happened to you is why Eve is such an amazing game....the fact that death in this game actually feels like....death!
Eve is a harsh game - not like WoW where dying just pops you back somewhere close with all your equipment intact....here you die and you lose stuff and it sets you back
I hope the comments and advice from people have encouraged you....the fact that your alliance was at war makes Eve a ridiculously dangerous place for you and you had a harsh lesson....any experienced player would be tiptoeing around the hi-sec area when at war. So don't give up....get even! Remember who that thorax pilot was and get some corp buddies together and try to track them down :-)
I'll send you a lil isk to help you out |
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