Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Brastagi
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty how can a simple performance patch cause serious lag ? - well the answer is simple my friend, human error, its the same reason people have car accidents when driving a car and thats such a simple concept.
QFT... it's quite invetible --------- Watch me gravitate Ha ha ha ha ha....
|
Princess Beefcurtains
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: MysticNZ Well I have to admit...
CPP got a new QA team and there is still a ****load of bugs.... how can something be released with so many bugs? It was rushed out the door... it was still being patched 5 hours before we could download the final patch.
He has a point.
*COUGH* ever heard of Microsoft Windows?
Click here to find weapons of mass destruction |
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:38:00 -
[33]
tbh from finishing a group project as part of my uni course I can understand how easy it is to create pretty signifcant problems from very simple bugs and mistakes.
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: dantes inferno well as your such a programming god and can do a better job than ccp..why not make ur own MMO? i would love to see you lag free game..so please do so.
And their is a differnce between been a fanboy and thinking its the ebst thing since sliced bread, and been tolerant to a very difficult project, knowing all the problems will be fixed as usual..something i think u would do a much worse job that ccp...so "let those withou sin be the first to cast stones" the day you make a MMO with no lag and less problems and is more succesful than eve..then ill listen to ur rubbish
I'm not asking you to read this post. If you dont want to then dont.
It IS my right to complain and take it that I am.
If I wish to point out that people are acting strangely when they are paying for something then I will.
What you do is up to you.
If you want to absurdly support a poor patch then prepare to be ridiculed. If you dont like it then dont post such rubbish.
Go on,,, you could do with a time share !
|
Macro Slasher
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
How about doing the year 2000 project for a group of systems all talking together spread across 26 countries and multiple factories - each computer using multiple CPU's.
A company with an 8 billion dollar turnover.
And I had 3 bugs - and no lag.
It's actually nowhere near most likely. The EVE server side has got all kinds of weird transitions and a centralized database server for transactions and such. It's as hard as it comes and most likely you have just no idea. It's not your "lame 3-tier business logic application".
|
Princess Beefcurtains
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:42:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Princess Beefcurtains on 18/12/2005 19:42:44
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
Originally by: dantes inferno well as your such a programming god and can do a better job than ccp..why not make ur own MMO? i would love to see you lag free game..so please do so.
And their is a differnce between been a fanboy and thinking its the ebst thing since sliced bread, and been tolerant to a very difficult project, knowing all the problems will be fixed as usual..something i think u would do a much worse job that ccp...so "let those withou sin be the first to cast stones" the day you make a MMO with no lag and less problems and is more succesful than eve..then ill listen to ur rubbish
I'm not asking you to read this post. If you dont want to then dont.
It IS my right to complain and take it that I am.
If I wish to point out that people are acting strangely when they are paying for something then I will.
What you do is up to you.
If you want to absurdly support a poor patch then prepare to be ridiculed. If you dont like it then dont post such rubbish.
Go on,,, you could do with a time share !
Mate, you still seem to think its the patch and are overlooking the fact that the majority of the lag is due to autopatching and not the patch itself. During daytime hours (UK) the game runs much smoother than before due to the fact there are only 10-12k players on, most of who'm have already patched or are patching via bit-torrent. Patience is a virtue.
Click here to find weapons of mass destruction |
MysticNZ
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: dantes inferno well as your such a programming god and can do a better job than ccp..why not make ur own MMO? i would love to see you lag free game..so please do so.
I am a programmer and I have no intent on making an MMO.
Every module of this patch should have been tested with automated tools, it seems like it was not.
Simply shoving the patch on sisi and having people play with everything is not a good way to test a new patch.
-
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:46:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Macro Slasher
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
How about doing the year 2000 project for a group of systems all talking together spread across 26 countries and multiple factories - each computer using multiple CPU's.
A company with an 8 billion dollar turnover.
And I had 3 bugs - and no lag.
It's actually nowhere near most likely. The EVE server side has got all kinds of weird transitions and a centralized database server for transactions and such. It's as hard as it comes and most likely you have just no idea. It's not your "lame 3-tier business logic application".
So. Seeing as you are such an expert. What are these weird transactions ?
Wether it is traditional centralised d/b, 2 tier, 3 tier or what ever - what has that got to do with SQL changing in anyway ?
What is as hard as it comes ? I'm really interested to know.
|
Jason Kildaro
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:47:00 -
[39]
I think the reason some people is saying it's a good patch is that they can see beyond the temporary lag issues and look at the content of the patch. There was some good thinking going on behind the content changes.
I see some awesome interaction going on between the producers, mission, runners, and miners now.
As for the performance issues, it seems that CCP got overwhelmed with the amount of users they have now. I, for one, thought that when Eve came out that it would never surpass 9-10k users at peak. It seemed to much like a niche game and one that many players would not have patience for. Now here we are a with twice that number at peak hours and increasing....DAILY. This game started off small and without much backing from major companies that could throw money at the problems. CCP has had to buy the license from Simon and Schuster, buy the hardware, maintain a staff and improve upon a rather expermiental game with little to no outside resource.
Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot they can do to improve the experience but I and many vets like me have seen what this game started off as and can truly appreciate what is being done.
Have patience, Eve is only going to get better.
|
Princess Beefcurtains
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:51:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Princess Beefcurtains on 18/12/2005 19:52:56
Originally by: MysticNZ
Originally by: dantes inferno well as your such a programming god and can do a better job than ccp..why not make ur own MMO? i would love to see you lag free game..so please do so.
I am a programmer and I have no intent on making an MMO.
Every module of this patch should have been tested with automated tools, it seems like it was not.
Simply shoving the patch on sisi and having people play with everything is not a good way to test a new patch.
The patches are tested with tools but there are no real tools to test the effect of 20k+ different peoples actions. This is why the tool-tested patches are released on Sisi first. Sisi of course can only hold a max of 1k players with average of 500 on during dt, so you will still get errors occuring when released unless you spent a lot longer developing and had a larger test server. These things may be a good idea, but anyway, it's pointless discussing as the minor bugs in the patch have next to nothing to do with the lag people are complaining about.
Click here to find weapons of mass destruction |
|
Spyn
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: wumpscut we're supposed to take your input on programming languages and programmers seriously when you can't even tell the difference between a comma and a period?
If you're going to criticise someone else's punctuation, I suggest you avoid randomly hitting the enter key and failing to capitalise anything.
Practise what you preach, etc.
|
dantes inferno
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 19:52:00 -
[42]
Edited by: dantes inferno on 18/12/2005 19:54:36
Quote: I'm not asking you to read this post. If you dont want to then dont.
It IS my right to complain and take it that I am.
If I wish to point out that people are acting strangely when they are paying for something then I will.
What you do is up to you.
If you want to absurdly support a poor patch then prepare to be ridiculed. If you dont like it then dont post such rubbish.
Go on,,, you could do with a time share
i didnt ask force you to read my reply..but you did
it is my right to complain about your idiotic reasoning and i exercise that right
if you post strangley then i will post the same way in return
if you post rubbish you will be ridiculed
you may of been stupid enough to buy all these timeshares...but no one will take them off you..bye now
Quote: I am a programmer and I have no intent on making an MMO.
Every module of this patch should have been tested with automated tools, it seems like it was not.
Simply shoving the patch on sisi and having people play with everything is not a good way to test a new patch.
are you telling me every programme you desgin and test works the exact same way during testing as it does during implementation? how many of these programmes have 20 thousand consecutive users? if you can do that prehaps you should make a game..it will blow the rest out of the water. _____
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: dantes inferno Edited by: dantes inferno on 18/12/2005 19:54:36 are you telling me every programme you desgin and test works the exact same way during testing as it does during implementation? how many of these programmes have 20 thousand consecutive users? if you can do that prehaps you should make a game..it will blow the rest out of the water.
Srry no real time to reply - because I'm playing with my dog - even he is bored with lag
Yes - most if not all programs behave the same. Essencially that's how computers work - they are predictable.
The ONLY time this is wrong is if circumstances are different. Or in other words databases are different or versioning is wrong.
Wether there are 2, 200, 20K or 2 Million people online a transaction is a transaction - the amount of CPU, Memory, I/O's going on is the same. The operating system may behave differently but that is something Eve has coped with for some time - I think.
Buy that time share,,, u know u need it
|
Gonada
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:08:00 -
[44]
yes young padawan, this os a nice patch, compared to all that i have endured over the past 10 years of gaming relax itll pass
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
|
Jason Kildaro
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
Originally by: dantes inferno Edited by: dantes inferno on 18/12/2005 19:54:36 are you telling me every programme you desgin and test works the exact same way during testing as it does during implementation? how many of these programmes have 20 thousand consecutive users? if you can do that prehaps you should make a game..it will blow the rest out of the water.
Srry no real time to reply - because I'm playing with my dog - even he is bored with lag
Yes - most if not all programs behave the same. Essencially that's how computers work - they are predictable.
The ONLY time this is wrong is if circumstances are different. Or in other words databases are different or versioning is wrong.
Wether there are 2, 200, 20K or 2 Million people online a transaction is a transaction - the amount of CPU, Memory, I/O's going on is the same. The operating system may behave differently but that is something Eve has coped with for some time - I think.
Buy that time share,,, u know u need it
Your absolutely right Xander...CCP is screwed up. The company can't program and are here to screw up all the players. They purposely wrote a bad patch to get rid of all the smart customers like you. You have every right to come on a their forums and flame them. Heck, you should continue to flame and disregard what every player who disagrees with you has to say. You should be vindicated, not only should you cancel your account but you should also receive some sort of monetary compensation for having played a game as crappy as this one.
I'll buy two of those timeshares, because that analogy and witty commnetary is so awesome to.
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
Originally by: dantes inferno Edited by: dantes inferno on 18/12/2005 19:54:36 are you telling me every programme you desgin and test works the exact same way during testing as it does during implementation? how many of these programmes have 20 thousand consecutive users? if you can do that prehaps you should make a game..it will blow the rest out of the water.
Srry no real time to reply - because I'm playing with my dog - even he is bored with lag
Yes - most if not all programs behave the same. Essencially that's how computers work - they are predictable.
The ONLY time this is wrong is if circumstances are different. Or in other words databases are different or versioning is wrong.
Wether there are 2, 200, 20K or 2 Million people online a transaction is a transaction - the amount of CPU, Memory, I/O's going on is the same. The operating system may behave differently but that is something Eve has coped with for some time - I think.
Buy that time share,,, u know u need it
Your absolutely right Xander...CCP is screwed up. The company can't program and are here to screw up all the players. They purposely wrote a bad patch to get rid of all the smart customers like you. You have every right to come on a their forums and flame them. Heck, you should continue to flame and disregard what every player who disagrees with you has to say. You should be vindicated, not only should you cancel your account but you should also receive some sort of monetary compensation for having played a game as crappy as this one.
I'll buy two of those timeshares, because that analogy and witty commnetary is so awesome to.
Aha a sale ! Yay !
The whole point of disagreeing with the people congratulating CCP on the patch is because the patch is not worth congratulating YET. When it is working then I will congratulate CCP.
I love/hate Eve at times. And if I didnt have some sort of emotion about the game I wouldnt be posting.
As I said previously this post is not so much aimed at CCP but more at the people who blindly say 'Great patch CCP'.
It's a bit of fun while Eve is unplayable.
Srry for affecting you so much - but thanks for the sale
PS. We operate a no-refunds policy.
|
Jason Kildaro
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:35:00 -
[47]
Reread my other post then where I told you I can understand why you are frustrated but as to why some people are saying this a good patch. You did not answer that one, apparently you are not looking for discussion. You are looking for other people to jump on the bandwagon with you and flame.
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:41:00 -
[48]
No, I thought your previous post was a sarcastic flame and hence not really worth replying too.
Was there something to discuss in a post where you said I was absolutely right and then put words in my mouth that I havent written.
As explained. It's not so much the patch or CCP that gets to me. It is people blindly saying 'Great Patch'.
Second time I've explained this now.
Nice sale though Want another time share ?
|
Jason Kildaro
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:45:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jason Kildaro on 18/12/2005 20:46:09
Originally by: Xander XacXorien No, I thought your previous post was a sarcastic flame and hence not really worth replying too.
Was there something to discuss in a post where you said I was absolutely right and then put words in my mouth that I havent written.
As explained. It's not so much the patch or CCP that gets to me. It is people blindly saying 'Great Patch'.
Second time I've explained this now.
Nice sale though Want another time share ?
I think the reason some people is saying it's a good patch is that they can see beyond the temporary lag issues and look at the content of the patch. There was some good thinking going on behind the content changes.
I see some awesome interaction going on between the producers, mission, runners, and miners now.
As for the performance issues, it seems that CCP got overwhelmed with the amount of users they have now. I, for one, thought that when Eve came out that it would never surpass 9-10k users at peak. It seemed to much like a niche game and one that many players would not have patience for. Now here we are a with twice that number at peak hours and increasing....DAILY. This game started off small and without much backing from major companies that could throw money at the problems. CCP has had to buy the license from Simon and Schuster, buy the hardware, maintain a staff and improve upon a rather expermiental game with little to no outside resource.
Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot they can do to improve the experience but I and many vets like me have seen what this game started off as and can truly appreciate what is being done.
Have patience, Eve is only going to get better.
That is sarcastic? Read it again.
|
Ranger 1
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:45:00 -
[50]
Troll.
|
|
The Cosby
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 20:45:00 -
[51]
on behalf of all the normal players that play eve that have no idea what you guys are talking about, i give a plain and simple, Suck it up princess.
|
Teles666
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 21:09:00 -
[52]
Speaking as a programmer of the 'get it done yesterday' persuasion I tell you exactly why there are bugs in the release - it isn't worth testing it for months on end.
By far the quickest way to find bugs is to release it and sort out the **** storm that it generates.
If you are writing financial systems for a bank you don't do this - the damage it could cause is beyond any value you could put on testing.
But this is a game - and if it's buggy for a few days or a week nothing really bad is going to happen.
|
Mned Graydroggen
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 21:29:00 -
[53]
Quote: I'm not bragging - I'm stating a fact of how other people manage to perform major updates to thousands and thousands of programs on a daily basis and have little or few problems.
I'm not a techy, but how bout this.
Those ppl you are talking about are working on simple 1 dimensional setups. I mean in any given factory the number of tasks that an system has to preform are fairly limited.
This compared to EVE. EVE is a system that only states the options available, after this 80 k users are free to have a go to do whatever they want with the tools at hand. Unlike an office of factory employe who is limited to a fixed number of options.
Hope I make sence
Mned
|
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 21:59:00 -
[54]
Mned, sorry but I dont agree. Business systems are far from 1 dimensional - most are very interwoven. If u want me to reply with an example I will but it's a bit off topic and boring.
I agree with Teles666, I suppose it doesnt matter and people put up with it
However I think CCP has to be careful because if they expand too much and employ people to cope - and equipment. They have then got to keep people happy enough not to leave and jeopodise the ongoing costs.
|
Mned Graydroggen
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:06:00 -
[55]
Quote: I'm not bragging - I'm stating a fact of how other people manage to perform major updates to thousands and thousands of programs on a daily basis and have little or few problems.
Doubt my 25 euro a month alone will keep the Devs fed, but I wont be going anywhere less the servers close and EVE is retired.
|
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:08:00 -
[56]
While it is your right to complain (through the proper channels as it also is everyone right to ask you to shut the hell up, and it is not your right to annoy them), it is not your right to repost the innumerable "patch makes game laggy" threds that's been locked over and over. Remember, it's only by the permission of CCP we are allowed to use their forums, their rules aply.
Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless |
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mned Graydroggen
Quote: I'm not bragging - I'm stating a fact of how other people manage to perform major updates to thousands and thousands of programs on a daily basis and have little or few problems.
Doubt my 25 euro a month alone will keep the Devs fed, but I wont be going anywhere less the servers close and EVE is retired.
Well this is my whole point. The people who post a 'Great Patch' are satisfied with anything.
Yet there are new users signing on who have read a recent review in PC Gamer, people who have reserved specifically this time for Eve. People who could have spent their time much better or cant spend as much time because of the holidays.
Those people will probably not sign up to Eve. Others will consider if Eve is worthwhile.
Yet the same people who post 'Great Patch' say if you aint happy leave.
Ok,, say we all do - Eve will eventually shutdown and you end up with nothing.
So the question really is,,, why are you guys all supporting something which damages CCP/Eve ?
Why not be constructive and be insistant that this doesnt happen again ?
|
Goobly
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:21:00 -
[58]
mmmmm butterscotch
Gibbidy Gobbidy Goobly |
Xander XacXorien
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:23:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ithildin While it is your right to complain (through the proper channels as it also is everyone right to ask you to shut the hell up, and it is not your right to annoy them), it is not your right to repost the innumerable "patch makes game laggy" threds that's been locked over and over. Remember, it's only by the permission of CCP we are allowed to use their forums, their rules aply.
If you had read the post you would realise that I'm talking about people who post 'Great Patch' responses blindly.
I'm not sure where you are going with the CCP rules apply ?
I take it this is to endear me to you and CCP in some strange customer satisfaction way ?
|
Zydigo
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:38:00 -
[60]
Wow, the amount of drivel coming out of Xander in this thread is ****ing me off.
Originally by: Xander If you have noticed Eve is run via SQL - it doesnt really matter which language is used - be it Cobol (Rates have been really good for this old language), C, RPG, Java,,,
You're an idiot. Eve is not run via SQL. Eve is run via stackless python. The database is there to hold, organize, and access data. It is not there to simulate the universe. Futhormore, you are retarded. It damn well matters what language you are using when your cpu usage is running into the realms of nuclear simulation and weather prediction. If they wanted this to scale better, it would be written in C. The tradeoff is that it would have taken 3 or more times as long to write. If you came up to me and suggested writing an MMO in COBOL I would light you on fire and **** on the ashes.
Originally by: Xander By the way,,, from what I have seen as a so called 'expert' C, C++ and Java are way, way, way off any comparisons to both the size and complexity of any 2nd generation language databases. I know since I use Java amongst other languages.
What are you even talking about here? I can't tell with crazy agglomerations like "2nd generation language databases". Is he talking about languages or databases? Nobody will ever know. Words, man! Let them work for you.
Quote: I'm not bragging - I'm stating a fact of how other people manage to perform major updates to thousands and thousands of programs on a daily basis and have little or few problems.
No, you aren't bragging. What you are doing is pulling inapplicable hypothetical comparisons out of your ass. Who do you think you are? Gartner Group?
Quote: How can it be that a so called performance patch causes serious lag ?
If you do not know this, you have never actually programmed anything more complicated than "hello, world". When you have 20k simultaneous users of a complicated system, things arise.
Quote: Yes - most if not all programs behave the same. Essencially that's how computers work - they are predictable.
No, they are not. You would know this if you have written any non-trivial multithreaded code.
Quote: The ONLY time this is wrong is if circumstances are different. Or in other words databases are different or versioning is wrong.
You are an idiot.
Quote: Wether there are 2, 200, 20K or 2 Million people online a transaction is a transaction - the amount of CPU, Memory, I/O's going on is the same. The operating system may behave differently but that is something Eve has coped with for some time - I think.
No, wait, I take that back. You are the idiot. Code breaks differently under different loading and/or usage patterns. A patch of slowish code with 500 people hitting it may not be fatal until you ratchet the user count up to 20k. All software and hardware interdependencies are magnified when you crank the load up. Different systems slow down and break at different rates, and anything that depends on them can hang up as well.
1 or 2 early MMOs had problems with the client TCP connections flooding them with rebroadcast packets when the servers slowed down. The server slowing down under load would cause this to happen, resulting in more lag, resulting in more rebroadcast packets, and so on until it all blew up. THOSE THINGS DO NOT HAPPEN WHEN THERE ARE 2 USERS CONNECTED, FOOL.
You are a joke. Stop talking.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |