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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
393
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Posted - 2013.08.09 11:51:00 -
[661] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it. Not wanting to flog this thankfully-dead horse, but what criteria do you perceive would make it needed? As I can't see how it doesn't hugely discriminate against brawling/armour setups, because kiting/shield gangs can keep their links on while running to range on-grid, even if some fleetmates are tackled & deaggressing under logi on a gate/station.
Also it's totally stupid to consider using a link T3 for this brawler scenario while the SP loss mechanic remains. |
Miriam Sasko
Matari Exodus
62
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 11:54:00 -
[662] - Quote
As has been said by others, the one minute timer is the worst eve dev idea I've seen so far. It precludes linked gangs from going to the edge of what their setup can do, because once they need them the most, their links will fail them. Force multipliers that only work while you are in a comfortable situation anyway are ******** (the main gripe I also have with ECM, btw)
If link ships sitting unassaultable on gates and stations are such a big deal (never really encountered them myself since 2010 or so), make active links give you a suspect timer. I'm certain some sort of lore reason can be found, and it would solve many of the highsec shenanigans as well as make it harder to do this in lowsec. Latest Video: The Graf Spee Legacy |
Mr Doctor
Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel
39
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Posted - 2013.08.09 12:06:00 -
[663] - Quote
What if weapon timer was only applicable to T3s and T3s give system wide bonuses. Command ships have no weapons timer but are restricted to only boosting ships on grid.
If youre on grid you'll mostly be fighting anyway and the T3 having the weapons timer would give them a bit of a problem hitting gates if they arent careful enough. Ofcourse, it wouldnt actually have that big an effect on T3s, just the occational lolgank on a gate/station as it trys to jump/dock.
This would also keep the flavour of T3s being general (less sucsessfully boosting but boosting the whole system) and command ships being focused (to the current grid with their higher bonuses) |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
147
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 15:00:00 -
[664] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it. Please enable it. Giving boosters timer so they cant just sit on undock and be immune is awesome. TBH it would be the best change of all listed here. W-Space Realtor |
Yankunytjatjara
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
76
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:05:00 -
[665] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it. What's the feasibility of implementing the aggro inheritance a la remote rep instead?
You mentioned elsewhere performance issues, but thinking about it, there could be a solution that has no additional software cycles - that I can think of:
1. every time a ship in a fleet gets an aggro flag, its fleet inherits the same flag (no checks) 2. every time 1. happens, the fleet active boosters inherit the same flags (no checks)
That's it. This means of course some development - as the fleet object will need to have the flags added to it, and obviously the calls - but performance wise it doesn't add any aggro checks.
Note that as a result, the weapons flag is inherited whenever a boosted fleet member gets it, basically getting the best of both!
Apologies for the armschair designing... My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors |
Yankunytjatjara
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
76
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:06:00 -
[666] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it. PS don't forget to add them buggers on killmails - to troll the "soloers" My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1907
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:06:00 -
[667] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it.
thats very disappointing. You could enable it at least till they are all on grid. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
25
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Posted - 2013.08.09 19:28:00 -
[668] - Quote
After 10 Years i dont think we need a "quickfix" anymore, take your time and make it right CCP. |
GothicNightmare
Frontier Explorer's League Sadistica Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.08.09 20:50:00 -
[669] - Quote
As a very avid command ship pilot, I find this change to weapons timer to be a bit... harsh. I fly vultures and damnations on grid with the fleet as I despise boosting off grid. I find myself asking "why would my fleet risk their ships if I won't risk mine". There comes a time though you make the call to dagress and fall back, and needing to shut the links off really makes the already losing side (I saw this stated before) heavily disadvantaged. If anything, I want an overheat option to burst tank (something with a really high burn rate for emergency overheats only, not prolonged burns like guns and hardeners) to give my deagressing fleet a fighting chance to not be completely slaughtered when waving the white flag and giving the field to the other fleet. If I overheat for a few cycles and i dont see my modules burn out and shut off, well then I don't belong in a CS, but causing the already beaten and wounded fleet to be more vulnerable and a mere mop-up... nah.
As I said before I've never been a fan of off grid boosting, just seems a bit cowardly to me especially from (as before mentioned by others) the virtually unscannable cloaky T3. If you turn on your tactical overlay and hover the mouse over a module, it shows how far that module will reach on the overlay, lets do that for command links. An invisible barrier persay that if you reach the edge of that bubble forces the fc to chance going outside link range to chase targets or pull back and stay in link range, now your booster has to be mobile with the fleet to keep the link field with the fleet. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 00:28:00 -
[670] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:After 10 Years i dont think we need a "quickfix" anymore, take your time and make it right CCP. I don't see how this is a "quickfix". This is part of a series of changes. if you read the OP:
CCP Fozzie wrote:"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Laozi CCP Fozzie wrote:We believe that the package of changes we've put together will be a significant step forward for the game, but it's definitely not the end of iteration on these features. These show that they are indeed taking their time and making the proper steps (hopefully) to pave the way for more features along the way.
My favorite example is the change in obtaining T2 mindlinks. They are making it generally cheaper and easier to get them, which makes it more viable to put a mindlinked clone in the fray without worrying about higher exspenses.
There's no definitive way to just throw a huge feature/balance/change into the game and do it prperly all in one try. In fact that makes it worse in almost every case.
Be patient compadre, good things come to those who wait |
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Kristen Andelare
Abacus Industries Group Aerodyne Collective
28
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Posted - 2013.08.10 01:19:00 -
[671] - Quote
Just a word to all you posters who are in favor of getting rid of Off-Grid boosting altogether, and/or inherited flagging for the booster. You are being very short-sighted.
Don't forget the other major users of boosters: Mining fleets with Orcas and Rorquals.
If you eliminate off-grid boosting entirely, the Rorqual is about as useful as a basket of left-handed screwdrivers. No one flies these ships into belts. The Orca will still get used to boost, in highsec only. Sad, sad situation that would be.
If inherited flagging becomes a reality, say goodbye to the Orca too. No one wants to allow their Orca to be at risk that someone in the fleet flips a can and they inherit a flag that allows everyone in system to shoot their ship. Boosting is a passive activity that does not require targeting. If should NEVER inherit flags of possibly unseen recipients of the boosts.
Now, if you make the exception (like CCP announced they would for POS shields) that only mining boosts can be off-grid, that seems like a good solution to the issue of OGB. Let's just leave inherited flags off the table, it is not a solid solution, when you consider ALL the ramifications, not just the ones to PvP. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 01:26:00 -
[672] - Quote
Kristen Andelare wrote:Just a word to all you posters who are in favor of getting rid of Off-Grid boosting altogether, and/or inherited flagging for the booster. You are being very short-sighted.
Don't forget the other major users of boosters: Mining fleets with Orcas and Rorquals.
If you eliminate off-grid boosting entirely, the Rorqual is about as useful as a basket of left-handed screwdrivers. No one flies these ships into belts. The Orca will still get used to boost, in highsec only. Sad, sad situation that would be.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield CCP Fozzie wrote:We do intend to move mining links out of forcefields someday, but we'll want to rebalance the Orca and Rorqual first to make putting them on grid more viable first. I own both an Orca and a Rorq and I have no problem with bringing them on grid if they are fixed properly. |
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1454
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 05:09:00 -
[673] - Quote
Mingja wrote:the easiest fix for links would've been to make them light a spot in space like cynos do.
That way, most problems would solve at once - the booster would have to be active and everybody else could just kill it.
But it's good that CCP doesn't take the easy route, and we all have to wait for a year or so till they do a real fix.....
BS that would be more fun http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
79
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Posted - 2013.08.10 09:21:00 -
[674] - Quote
CCP Fozzie,
What are we going to do with Titans? The ability to use 5 simulatneous links is now compeltely pointless as you can't use them in a POS. This whole thing is yet ANOTHER nerf to the MOST-nerfed Ship-class in the past years.
Granted, Titans needed to be nerfed, but now there is only 1 role for Titans and that's bridging. As we all know, Doomsday is a module very rarely used in this day and age.
Thoughts?
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
265
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Posted - 2013.08.10 17:25:00 -
[675] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:Thoughts?
Death2allsupers STANDING ON THE VERGE OF PROLAPSE |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2136
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 19:58:00 -
[676] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:CCP Fozzie,
What are we going to do with Titans? The ability to use 5 simulatneous links is now compeltely pointless as you can't use them in a POS. This whole thing is yet ANOTHER nerf to the MOST-nerfed Ship-class in the past years.
Granted, Titans needed to be nerfed, but now there is only 1 role for Titans and that's bridging. As we all know, Doomsday is a module very rarely used in this day and age.
Thoughts? Remove the jump bridge ability
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
763
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 21:20:00 -
[677] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:...Thoughts? If my wildest dreams come true and links ability to boost entire grids/fleets is removed, then Titan's and Mom's can become true fleet boosters as the only ones able to apply bonuses to more than 10-20 people at a time. Hell, when the tiericide train pulls into its last stop and Titan's get some sexxor our jobs will be to insure that the current hull bonuses are updated to be more in tune with what Eve looks like today .. doubly so if eWar is sorted and links are on grid by that time.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1327
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 21:33:00 -
[678] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it.
>=[
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1086
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 06:26:00 -
[679] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We're planning to make active gang links provide a 60 second weapons timer to their owner, so that you can't just sit on a station or gate and boost all day long.
B========================>
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, I want to make it clear that the weapons timer for links is not for Odyssey 1.1. It's a tool we have in our back pocket for if it ends up being needed. I won't rule out using it depending on how things go in the future, but we're also not dead set on enabling it.
B==>
All this QQ...really. If you are stupid enough to leave a boosting T3 on a gate or station and it gets a 60s timer, and you cannot dock in time, then poor you. This will only matter for people who currently leave their link alt idling on station and don't look at it, ever, because it gets protection and can instadock.
Us carrier pilots who use lowsec would like to talk to you about supercap hotdrops. You don't aggro on undock because you could get dropped on by a Nyx and lose your ship. it will be exactly the same with the boosting alts and a 60s aggro timer.
For the Command Ship pilots, if you are doing it right you will be shooting up until the time you drop links. There's no difference except you will need to factor this in when jumping gate to aggro the bait laid out for you.
This needs enacting now. YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Incan Descence
Spartan Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 16:57:00 -
[680] - Quote
You might wanna change the OP to be in synch with the command ships thread. No more static 15 5 boost. |
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Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1058
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 03:08:00 -
[681] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Cearain wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok update time!
Most of your updates are decent. Could you please take a moment to address why off grid gang links are way more potent than pirate implant sets and drugs? Both of these later items are at real risk of not only being destroyed, but also providing drawbacks to your ship. Meanwhile, links are boosting every ship, with far more potency, from historically, a "safe" place. P.S. EXCELLENT change with by giving boosters a weapons timer!!!!! I'm ok with another character being a bigger deal than an implant or a pill. I'm reposting part of what I said in warfaire and tactics here so that perhaps a dev will read this and understand why so many players hate ogbs. There are a few reasons why ccp's refusal to deal with ogbs= god mode makes it much easier to do other things with my time. These problems just aren't present from implants or drugs. 1) AltBoosters = Pay to win: Implants and boosters cost isk. (In game currency) They do not require the pay out of real money. Paying for a second account to sit in safe spot in a booster ship does cost real money. Accordingly no matter how much experience I have gained in the market or other isk making in eve that won't matter. I need to pay the extra 15 dollars to get god mode. I have lots of isk due to learning how to play the game. This has lead to me having 4 clones with pirate implants one set with improved learning implants and another with hg talons. All have various other implants for slots 7-10. I have made as much money from experimenting/learning drugs in eve as i have lost from using them. The ingame economy is a huge boon to eve and learning how to "play" it is a big part of the game. Play to win with a booster alt pretty much destroys that. That bothers me but I have to say that the extra 15 dollars a month is not in itself prohibitive for me. The other problem is: 2) Alt boosters make the game no fun to play. I think there are 2 general reasons for this. A) It ruins the immersion. I am not like the mittani where I forget who I am in real life and start thinking I am cearain. But when I am flying around space I do have at least some modicum of immersion that I am a character in a game flying a spaceship. However when i am multiboxing 2 different characters that is completely shot. Completely shot. I am then not a character in a game flying a spaceship, I am a nerd upstairs trying to outspreadsheet other nerds. B) There is an important difference between a game being challenging and a game just being tedious. Booster alts do not make eve challenging they make it tedious. Finding safespots in all the systems and dragging an alt around everywhere on your roam is not challenging. Any cretin can do that. But it is tedious. Is eve supposed to always be won by the person who can withstand the most tedium? Drugs and implants are bought with ingame currency and thus are balanced by that currency. If you think implants are risk free to spend 2.5 billion on a set, ok. use them. I do in low sec and think getting a set should be a goal of new low sec pvpers. Same if you think spending 5 mill isk on a booster that last up to an hour. Having isk to use is part of the game. People *learn* how to make/save isk in eve its a great part of the single shard game and economy. Using implants and drugs doesn't make the game tedious and it doesn't ruin the immersion of the game either. Booster alts do both. Buy Plex, swallow some Pills -> Pay2Win
Perhaps you could read the post before responding to it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
28
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Posted - 2013.08.12 05:47:00 -
[682] - Quote
I read it but it wouldnt change anything, the definition of Pay2Win is clearly buy stuff using Real Money to get better, i know its hard to accept for some People but trust me buying Plex to get expensive Drugs/Booster or buying an Account to Boost with fleet Booster is the same Problem.
Believe it or not. |
Ehcks Argentus
EVE University Ivy League
21
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Posted - 2013.08.12 05:51:00 -
[683] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I read it but it wouldnt change anything, the definition of Pay2Win is clearly buy stuff using Real Money to get better, i know its hard to accept for some People but trust me buying Plex to get expensive Drugs/Booster or buying an Account to Boost with fleet Booster is the same Problem.
Believe it or not.
Buying and selling plex is just skipping normal isk grinding. It doesn't make you any more powerful than you would be if you made isk the normal way.
But running missions for thousands of hours doesn't let you give gang links to an entire fleet with an alt. Only real money does that, either yours or someone else's. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
336
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Posted - 2013.08.12 08:37:00 -
[684] - Quote
Ehcks Argentus wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:I read it but it wouldnt change anything, the definition of Pay2Win is clearly buy stuff using Real Money to get better, i know its hard to accept for some People but trust me buying Plex to get expensive Drugs/Booster or buying an Account to Boost with fleet Booster is the same Problem.
Believe it or not. Buying and selling plex is just skipping normal isk grinding. It doesn't make you any more powerful than you would be if you made isk the normal way. But running missions for thousands of hours doesn't let you give gang links to an entire fleet with an alt. Only real money does that, either yours or someone else's.
Actually, Isk does allow you to do that, since you can buy plex to pay for your account & training to train the character or buy a character off the market that does that also. So everything you have said is possible with isk. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1058
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Posted - 2013.08.12 13:59:00 -
[685] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I read it but it wouldnt change anything, the definition of Pay2Win is clearly buy stuff using Real Money to get better, i know its hard to accept for some People but trust me buying Plex to get expensive Drugs/Booster or buying an Account to Boost with fleet Booster is the same Problem.
Believe it or not.
You say its the same but give no explanation other than "trust me."
I highly doubt people pay ccp 15 dollars a month so they can sell a plex and buy drugs. But I bet many, likely most, booster alt accounts are paid by real money subscriptions. Moreover the people buying drugs are at least buying something made by players in game with in game isk. Extra accounts for god-mode is purely pay to win. There is no in game isk needed at all. Indeed it is inefficient to use ingame isk since there are discounts for longer than 1 month real money subscriptions.
If people gave ccp as much real money for drugs and implants as they did for alt accounts ccp would not make alt accounts so much more powerful.
Still I have a question:
A) Are these bonuses based on the assumption ships need to be ongrid, Or B) when the link ships have to be on grid (assuming this is really ccps plan) will the bonuses increase?
If its A then ccp should admit that the bonuses are not currently balanced, and will remain unbalanced until they are forced on grid.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
423
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:04:00 -
[686] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:I read it but it wouldnt change anything, the definition of Pay2Win is clearly buy stuff using Real Money to get better, i know its hard to accept for some People but trust me buying Plex to get expensive Drugs/Booster or buying an Account to Boost with fleet Booster is the same Problem.
Believe it or not. You say its the same but give no explanation other than "trust me." I highly doubt people pay ccp 15 dollars a month so they can sell a plex and buy drugs. But I bet many, likely most, booster alt accounts are paid by real money subscriptions. Moreover the people buying drugs are at least buying something made by players in game with in game isk. Extra accounts for god-mode is purely pay to win. There is no in game isk needed at all. Indeed it is inefficient to use ingame isk since there are discounts for longer than 1 month real money subscriptions. If people gave ccp as much real money for drugs and implants as they did for alt accounts ccp would not make alt accounts so much more powerful. Still I have a question: A) Are these bonuses based on the assumption ships need to be ongrid, Or B) when the link ships have to be on grid (assuming this is really ccps plan) will the bonuses increase? If its A then ccp should admit that the bonuses are not currently balanced, and will remain unbalanced until they are forced on grid.
Did I miss and step into the forum of a free to play?
Its not pay to win, you can start and sustain x-accounts indefinitely on plex, hell I bought four plexes out of three hours of scanning around over the weekend. The hilarious part is that wasn't it you saying that you have something like 8-9 billion in jump clones floating around? That will pay for a over a year of subscriptions for an alt account.
Yeech man, HTFU. |
Gummi Worm
Blood And Sand Tectora
17
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Posted - 2013.08.12 15:56:00 -
[687] - Quote
You will kill smal gang, Now big alliance don't care about them, they work with numbers not with quality.
I don't know why everything ccp wanna nerf everything that they build, if you wanna nerf you can add fuel consumption for gang assist modules instead to give them less power. |
Florian Kuehne
Tech3 Company
12
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Posted - 2013.08.12 17:33:00 -
[688] - Quote
lol RIP armor & shield links why are u doing this??
I thought u want to make some changes to the whole commandships thing and now u bossting the ships itself but reducing the links wtf |
PrettyPollock
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.08.12 18:51:00 -
[689] - Quote
WOW. Fozzie, you're single-handedly turning eve into a peanut-butter smooth, balanced-to-boredom piece of garbage. I hope your passes on the faction vessels and battleships are a long way out.
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Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.08.12 22:25:00 -
[690] - Quote
Pure and simple nerf to the good stuff. Not sure what you think you have achieved here...
I am waiting for some proper expansion stuff... waiting for a long while already. Since Dust and WoD, you focus on adjusting configuration stuff, getting people pissed off instead of adding some good stuff. |
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