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BlackPulsar
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:18:00 -
[1]
Should corp thiefs be condoned by eve?
Chailion is a corp thief he has stolen Billions Of ISK form his former corp: International Brotherhood Of Eve Works [IBEW] (on the 18/12/05).
Do think that it is right that he gets away with this crime?
You could argue that it was the corps fault for letting him have access to there assets but still is it just that a player in this game that we all paly for fun can cause such destress to another player(s)?
Or is this a feature that ccp feel apropriate to leave in the game to cause destress on the many players for an individule players actions?
(Also anybody knows anything about this please let me know either suspected alt or any info about this)
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:22:00 -
[2]
Originally by: BlackPulsar Should corp thiefs be condoned by eve?
Chailion is a corp thief he has stolen Billions Of ISK form his former corp: International Brotherhood Of Eve Works [IBEW] (on the 18/12/05).
Do think that it is right that he gets away with this crime?
You could argue that it was the corps fault for letting him have access to there assets but still is it just that a player in this game that we all paly for fun can cause such destress to another player(s)?
Or is this a feature that ccp feel apropriate to leave in the game to cause destress on the many players for an individule players actions?
(Also anybody knows anything about this please let me know either suspected alt or any info about this)
Well, first off, welcome to EVE. I say that because you might have been here for a long time to have the billions for it to be stolen, but you seem to have just been introduced to a viable aspect of it.
In fact, an aspect that has appeared in PC Gamer as an advertising point.
It's not up to CCP to resolve this. You did the right thing naming and shaming. You'll probably also be less trusting with the sensitive stuff and ISK, which is a good thing.
If this was a main, wardec where he goes next. You'll either get to kill him or the subject corp will ask why, where you can tell them and limit the thief's career.
There are ways to prevent what happened, as well as ways to make the person who did it pay for the crime. It's just all on you to do it. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:22:00 -
[3]
TBH BPO's can be locked down and member access restricted, only let people into the secure hangers whom you trust and keep T2 bpo's etc in your own personal hanger.
CCP gave us the tools so we should have the sense to use them.
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:24:00 -
[4]
Quote: Should corp thiefs be condoned by eve?
Why shouldn't they be? The tools are there to limit access and they provide another element of game play and danger to break the humdrum activity of eve for most people.
And really, what can CCP do about them? The minute CCP start dictating to people how they should play the game (barring exploits and EULA violations) is the day that the whole concept of eve dies. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
Lord Frost
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:29:00 -
[5]
It may be wrong, but its not a crime. There are many ways to insure the safety of a corps isk... besides, I feel too many corps think they need to assign directors, but there are many roles you can assign to give players "director jobs" without having the power to screw you over.
Trust plays a big part... and I'm sure hundreds of people here could walk away with billions if they chose to, but they dont. The man who stole is a lamer... but no mater how pathetic he is, theres no definite way to have him pay for his crime.
Those who rant... "its your fault for trusting someone" just don't have a clue. This game is nothing without the trust of someone.
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DjDangle
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:36:00 -
[6]
Like I said in previous thread, I honour you for letting everyone know.
Afaik what I cannot understand is why corps continue to give access to people that should not have access. I interview people, I will not give them access to anything until they have prooved themselves and still then they will get default access to free access hangers.
These guys are like people that mug old ladies in Rl. Don't give them the chance to do so and you will be ok. ------------
"On My Signal, Unleash Hell" |
Dyvim Slorm
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:38:00 -
[7]
It's a pretty low tactic, betraying trust, but it is down to the corp to protect themselves. I can see some justification if you're wardec'd, beyond that it's just a scam which corps must protect themselves against.
In any case I can't see what CCP can do about it.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2005.12.20 00:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: BlackPulsar Should corp thiefs be condoned by eve?
Chailion is a corp thief he has stolen Billions Of ISK form his former corp: International Brotherhood Of Eve Works [IBEW] (on the 18/12/05).
Do think that it is right that he gets away with this crime?
You could argue that it was the corps fault for letting him have access to there assets but still is it just that a player in this game that we all paly for fun can cause such destress to another player(s)?
Or is this a feature that ccp feel apropriate to leave in the game to cause destress on the many players for an individule players actions?
Crime should always be an integral part of the game. One of the strengths of EVE (like it's great ancestor, Elite) has always been the freedom to play how you WANT to play, instead of being forced into a pre-defined role.
Nobody can steal from your corporation unless YOU let them. CCP has provided all the access controls you need to lock things down to trusted members. If you choose your friends and allies poorly, that's your fault.
What gives YOU the right to decide how others can have fun? Maybe for him, weaseling his way into your confidence and robbing you blind *IS* how he has fun. You've been outsmarted, accept that and learn from it instead of whining for rules changes.
Personally, I think this fellow is an evil git, and while I wouldn't find it "fun" to backstab people this way, I'm not going to ask to limit others if they do. If you want clearly defined roles where everyone has to play nice and choose a side, there's a game with 5 million others sheep just waiting for your money.
Machiavellian politics is one of those things that keeps a game interesting and exciting, long after you've learned the rules and min/max'd the items. I think EVE is stronger for allowing it. Yes, it means you have to watch your back, and yes, it means you have to USE your brain. Isn't that why you're here? I like games that don't turn my brain to mush, and knowing that betrayal and turncoats are part of the game makes it more immersive.
So, while I do feel sorry for your loss, and I do think Chailion is a bastard... I applaud CCP for creating an environment that allows being a bastard to work. I've played enough cookie-cutter good-vs-evil MMO's, and they're shallow.
Part of the charm of the original Dungeons and Dragons game was how much of the rules were left up to the DM. Mechanics and numbers were in the book, but the DM was encouraged to use them as guidelines and to allow the players to play how they wanted. The best campaigns were the ones where you weren't sure you could trust the rogue in the party, and then the "trustworthy" cleric decides to make off with the loot.
Long winded yeah... so my point. Don't ask CCP to close doors just because you don't want to walk through them. Ask your friends to help you avenge yourself and learn from your mistakes. Everyone will have more fun that way.
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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Wee Dave
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Posted - 2005.12.20 01:02:00 -
[9]
Technically, it isn't a crime. Indeed it wouldn't be a crime in the real world. What you have done is said 'person x has full access to withdraw resources from the following location'. You have implied that it should not be on a permanent basis but you haven't entered into a formal agreement. In the real-world, this would not be theft either.
I know that there are not - yet - formal contracts in Eve, but try to bear that in mind. When you gave them access, you gave them access. It's not theft because you sanctioned the taking with game mechanics; you just complained afterwards.
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Laughlyn Vaughns
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Posted - 2005.12.20 01:05:00 -
[10]
if i gave a stranger the keys to my car and went off for an hour i'd expect to comeback and find them both gone.
Its not nic ethat hes done it and he shud be flagged fo rit but all he has to do is escrow the items to himself and kill that char off and he is no more, in my corp there is only me who can take stuff from every hangar, i always allow other memebrs to view the hangar and if there is summat they want and its no problem then i take it out and drop it in their hangar, i understand this is hard for a larger corp but they still could have 5 trusted founding members that can take an item themselves and drop into anothe rmembers hangar, obviously if sumone wanted a Tech II BPO i'd never let that out of my hands and i'd build it mesen or make a copy of it for them and they just have to wait.
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killer krista
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Posted - 2005.12.20 12:44:00 -
[11]
Yes i screwed up on allowing a trust......i can admit to that,but i founded my corp on trust and friendship. No i did not realize that ccp would sacation such acts.All ways figured there could and would be a recourse for such actions,but as i found out ccp does not see it this way.So now i must lock down all that the corp will have in the future. I made a bad call in Chalion....but so did he. He may have whined to ccp and got pulled out of my corp.......and refuse to un dock and settel things,but i will cross paths with him again...and he can whin again and again and again. The end result will prob be me getting baned or warned.Since i am not a theif or priate I do not have the same "rights and protection". This has been a learning experience,and as we all know eve is allways full of learning. We are moving on learning from it....but i am keeping a steady target on chalion's ships.
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Aziza Sanskrit
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Posted - 2005.12.20 12:56:00 -
[12]
if i knew i could get away with it i'd do it in a heartbeat. and yes, i am an alt.
This kind of thing does happen in the real world, its called fraud and embezzlement.
i think its called survival of the fittest.
Get over it and move on.
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Rabbitgod
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:34:00 -
[13]
It's one thing to join a corp with the goal is spying and theift. It's anouther thing to be part of a corp that helps you get going and then when you leave to start your own thing you rob the corp that helped you blind.
I don't like either but I understand the first reason. The second reason is total bull and those people should be podded back to 1sp
Here these will help |
Drew Peacock
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:42:00 -
[14]
Consider this a public service announcement. CCP make it quite clear that they consider corp theft as part of the game.
I enjoy being a corp thief. I spend a lot of time selecting my targets, placing my characters and most of all I enjoy the buzz as I strike.
Sometimes things don't work out, like just now. I had trainee corp thief, all ready to move onto the target corp and the corp died.
So, what to do? I know, I will pick the corp of the person who gives the stupidist reply to this thread.
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without
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:42:00 -
[15]
no corp thieves suck balls
need to stop it somehow. perhpas limit what someone can take from hangers useing npc prices?? like 100mils max per day (then the ceo or one of the directers can give them another 100mils if its needed)
or better yet a way to set the limit of take per day
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Duraeli
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:46:00 -
[16]
Does thieving suck? Absolutely...
That said, CCP has implemented A LOT of measures to help protect a corp against this sort of situation. Past those features it is unfortunately up to the Directors and CEO as to who can be trusted with corp high-value assets.
Sorry mate, I know it sucks horribly. Best of luck to you and yours. ---------------------------------------------- Persona non grata |
Merdoch
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Posted - 2005.12.20 14:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Merdoch on 20/12/2005 14:11:08 Edited by: Merdoch on 20/12/2005 14:10:50 If corp thievery is condoned, there should be more of a risk for the corporate thieves.
Most forms of thievery have a risk or flip side. If you attack a player's ship, he can attack you back. If you steal from his carton, he's allowed to attack you. If your security status gets low enough, you become an outlaw target -- and so forth.
Corporate espionage, as far as I can tell, is risk free. You get people's trrust, you rob them blind, then you move on (probably to a different alt), and at no point is there ever any chance that something bad will happen to you. I believe that changes it from being a tactic to an exploit--anything that's all upside and no downside is an exploit.
So, what should CCP do about it? In the real world, this sort of thing actually is a crime. It's called embezzlement, and people do go to (club fed) jail for it. At the very least, it should be possible to lower the security status of emblezzlers and put a bounty on their heads. What I'd really like to see are booby trapped items--things that look really valuable, but which go *boom* inside anyone's hold when they get 1 AU from the vault. Then there'd be real risk in corp thieving. Maybe that really was a battleship BPO you stole--or maybe you're going to be floating in a pod in a moment. Now *that's* living on the edge.
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Minnky
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Posted - 2005.12.20 14:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: without no corp thieves suck balls
need to stop it somehow. perhpas limit what someone can take from hangers useing npc prices?? like 100mils max per day (then the ceo or one of the directers can give them another 100mils if its needed)
or better yet a way to set the limit of take per day
in other words ... restrict access ... ergo use the in-game tools 'already enabled'
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.20 14:57:00 -
[19]
i think the guy who did it is an asshat, but i fully support his rights to do it.
Where is my I-win button, CCP? |
Meeko Gloom
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Posted - 2005.12.20 15:00:00 -
[20]
Is there a way you can lock ships down? with locking down the hanger?? ________________________________________________
Gallente Empire is now hiring new members. Contact me for info |
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Meeko Gloom
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Posted - 2005.12.20 15:21:00 -
[21]
someone answer me
________________________________________________
Gallente Empire is now hiring new members. Contact me for info |
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