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Avon
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Posted - 2005.12.21 10:04:00 -
[31]
Funniest thread evah! ______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:46:00 -
[32]
Edited by: MachZERO on 21/12/2005 11:51:27
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Corvus Dove
1. Warp Scrambler
Problem with this is that the hauler is flagging itself as hostile after it's already begun the warp process, grabbing the ore after the warp command has been issued. Warp Scramblers won't activate against a target already beginning to warp: you get an error message that says "Target is Invulnerable" if you try. WCS make the problem here worse. Further, the macro is likely insta-ing back to the station: if so, camping the station or following the target does no good. That's why the above posts about "You can shoot them, now you want more??" are moot, because this is working around RMR's new system.
bull****, you can warpscramble a ship even when its trying to warp, geez you think you need to scramble before he tries warping. warp in with 30 tempest immidiatly put a warpdrive active to the savespot, fire 2 volleys while being invulnerable and warp out.
you are just to slow to get a scram on him, just lock him and when he steals align to the same spot he is aligning too, while trying to scram him if that fails warp after him. its easy
wow... just simply wow.. left me speachless for a while...
And to think... this reply was from a Mercenary Forces member....
I've come to expect much smarter, more thought out responses from a mercenary corp seeing as how you guys are SUPPOSED to have an angle on how insta's, warping, and general PvP work in eve...
Was I wrong to think this? (hopefully you had "/sarcasm on" when posting that reply)
(Or have I confused you with the usually excellent replies that Mercenary Coalition members provide to the forums?) --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" --------------------------------------------- |
Seyah Remmus
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:00:00 -
[33]
You certainly can be scrambled once warp drive is active. Ive been caught a couple of times by pirates which amazed me. They warp in AS im warping out(you can see them a few hundred KM out as theyre dropping from warp)I'm practically at warp speed and BAM, scrambled.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Seyah Remmus You certainly can be scrambled once warp drive is active. Ive been caught a couple of times by pirates which amazed me. They warp in AS im warping out(you can see them a few hundred KM out as theyre dropping from warp)I'm practically at warp speed and BAM, scrambled.
some of the macroers are super lagged or something, because I saw one of them take from a can when it was like 5km away and instantly go into warp. half hour later it came back and did the same again.
------- macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel |
Aragor
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:01:00 -
[35]
Just my 2 cents here for perspective......
The real issue here is these guys are adapting. Although the macros are still going on with mining barges and Apocs, what we are starting to see more and more of is active reactions to people impeding their isk/income rate. Although they are running macros and usually a handful or more accounts and PCs per person, these ops are not unattended....there is always one person overseeing their "mega-op" or group of ops, usually within the same system. That person is usually running the hauler and is always present to respond to GM convos...that's one of the most important parts of their "job" and the way they get around CCP's current major way of catching them. This person in the hauler is also often the one training as a gunner, since he doesn't need to train mining skills and is free to man a combat ship when necessary. We killed several cruisers last night and even saw a couple indy pilots come back in Ravens (with a pathetic loadout).
So, what you are seeing as ore theiving is just that....it is theft by Macro miners....not "macroing" theft. It's very unlikely that a macro can be made to fly a hauler around, find and select the right ship and perform all the maneuvers and control timings just right to pull off the theft you are describing. Even if it could be written, it's still easier and more foolproof to just fly the hauler. They still deserve to be popped....but just trying to put things into perspective.
They seem to be adapting by stealing ore (they probably feel justified as they are losing ore themselves as well as isk and real-world income), sending out or keeping gunners at the mining sites, and lately I see them mining and warping back to station to unload rather than using jet cans so risk of red flagging is gone.
Know thy enemy....This is strictly a job for them...99% of these guys are aged 9-12, can't speak or read barely a word of english, ARE in fact present at the keyboard, and will not stop as they MUST make isk or suffer the real-life consequences of poor job performance. They will adapt to our efforts as well as CCP's efforts, and we just need to keep adapting as well.
The Ebay and other-website demand for isk and item sales only seems to be growing, and this is becomming a major industry for these guys...they will continue to grow as long as people buy their isk and as long as the asteroid belts and ice fields last.
Check out this article....gives some valuable details and a good perspective on this mess:
http://www.warcry.com/scripts/columns/view_sectionalt.phtml?site=15&id=404&colid=8610
And the author may be correct....CCP may not know yet how to deal with this and the possible legal ramifications of banning people who can claim that the ELUA is not valid and CCP has cost them their job (ELUAs have rarely if ever been challenged in court in terms of virtual property, and just because a developer says they can do something in an ELUA doesn't really mean they can in the eyes of a judge or especially foreign law). Maybe CCP is really afraid and treading lightly and hence the new flagging system letting the players try to handle the problem?? The macro ops are so numerous and obvious it doesn't matter how busy CCP claims to be.....would take them about 30 minutes to locate, identify and ban about 200 accounts on any given evening. They are simply not willing right now. I suspect CCP will be very receptive (if only unofficially) to support the needs of "macro killers" as these guys adapt and players need more to deal with the problem....It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jennai
Originally by: Seyah Remmus You certainly can be scrambled once warp drive is active. Ive been caught a couple of times by pirates which amazed me. They warp in AS im warping out(you can see them a few hundred KM out as theyre dropping from warp)I'm practically at warp speed and BAM, scrambled.
some of the macroers are super lagged or something, because I saw one of them take from a can when it was like 5km away and instantly go into warp. half hour later it came back and did the same again.
The lag would make sense. They're sitting at literally 6 computers running through the same router in China. IN CHINA. That's like having 6 computers piped through dialup in some cases.
One thing that would help is to make the 14 day trial a necessary prelude to subscription, and change the way noobcorps work. After the trial is over, the pilot should be kicked into a warrable corp named after themselves. This should also hold true for leaving corporations.
Ex: Me quitting my corp would put me in warrable Corp, "Corvus Dove Corp". The corp would be unable to hire anyone and ignore CEO skills, have no corp wallet, etc. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Corvus Dove The next evolutionary step in macroing, it seems.
Suicide bombers and low-sec pirates are making macromining less profitable. That, combined with nerfing of trial accounts, has pushed our macronese friends to a new avenue.
ORE THIEVES! Yes, our askjdh-style friends are back, and in industrials. We've already had several reported instances of this sort of nonsense, including smacktalk in Chinese and broken English.
Why doesn't RMR help? Simple, really. Jet Cans need to evolve. Not only does the Jet Can need upgrading from its old size to compensate for the supermassive capital ships, but also the interface with them needs help.
The Macro script is taking advantage of a hole in RMR. The offending industrial is flying up to the can, initiating warp, and instantly snatching the can contents just before the ship speeds off into the blackness of space.
The result: targets that can't be locked after triggering the flagging, as they are "invulnerable" when weapons modules are activated.
CCP, I'd like to propose a quick fix to these issues. Triple (or more) the size of the jet can's cargo space to compensate for larger vessels (freighters having 100% cargo destruction sucks), and adjust the UI reaction for warp/jet cans. Make it so that if you initiate warp, the can can't be opened and if already open, closes automatically. This may buy us the second we need to warp scramble the offending macro.
A quantitative delay might help, too (for instance, for every refinable unit-amount of a given type of ore, there is a one second delay before the next refinable unit-amount is pulled, which can cause up to a 30 second delay as ore is transferred).
just stop for the love of god.
it's probably players. just shut up about macros already.
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
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Angelic Resolution
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:30:00 -
[38]
Do what I did, turn into a ****. I have a friend on stand-by now in a BS. I fit my ship with a scrambler + web :)
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Olixia Castitatis
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jakk Graiseach
Originally by: Olixia Castitatis
As someone else said, you have 15 minutes. Just follow them as they warp and nuke them before they can dock.
You really thought this through huh? (cut)
Have a really nice day now...
move to an unpopulated system? Hell, I am nto even suggesting you go into low sec, just go live in the high Ammatar or Khanid - some place Ore thiefs and Macroers wont go.
Yeah, I know its been said nine thousand times before, but thats because it is a good idea.
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Katana Seiko
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:38:00 -
[40]
hmm... imagine a message popping up "there was a theft reported from your can. do you want concord to intervene? this service will cost you 1,000,000 (according your concord standing and the thief's standing)" [yes][no] prevent the thief from docking and using stargates for the next 15 minutes... like that, the ore thieves (and especially a very provocating s.a.s guy - very dumb and gief producing) will one day die out...
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Wee Dave
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:45:00 -
[41]
I don't understand this. Macroers can steal up to 27500 units of low quality ore every fifteen minutes. At *best*. Per account. And they have to find a target.
This cannot be profitable.
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Cvuos
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Berak FalCheran
just stop for the love of god.
it's probably players. just shut up about macros already.
Macros = isk farmers = only in game to farm isk for ebay.
Doesn't matter if anyone's at the keyboard or not. An ore thief is pretty much guaranteed to be a live player.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:59:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Jennai on 22/12/2005 01:00:25
Originally by: Cvuos
Originally by: Berak FalCheran
just stop for the love of god.
it's probably players. just shut up about macros already.
Macros = isk farmers = only in game to farm isk for ebay.
Doesn't matter if anyone's at the keyboard or not. An ore thief is pretty much guaranteed to be a live player.
I saw some isk farmers using a macro to pick up every can in the belt. of course they died quickly to can flagging, but pre-patch there was nothing stopping them.
most of the farming haulers appear to be player-controlled, but the miners are macroed to dump ore into the can so the farmer can run 10+ accounts and only need to check on his haulers once every 10-20 minutes to take another load back to station.
------- macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel |
Drayco
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Posted - 2005.12.22 01:47:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Drayco on 22/12/2005 01:47:18 For the love of god... Corvus stfu.. You flurbs wanted this now you got it. Bend over and take it like a man. Please by all means cry till they make another patch that gives you rights to do something else... Then complain more that its still unfair. If you don't like how eve is being played. Leave and don't let the pod door hit ya in the arse on the way out.
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raVn666
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Posted - 2005.12.22 07:25:00 -
[45]
god damn Im getting so tired of reading about Macro miners, and how ccp should get rid of the problem. I dont think they can , macrominers will find they ways no mather what... As long there is a marked for selling isk on Ebay they will be there , in one way or the other. So Eve players themself have created macrominers so to speak. So for Ebay'ers ...stop shopping isk and start earning them in game instead
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madaluap
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Posted - 2005.12.22 12:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: MachZERO Edited by: MachZERO on 21/12/2005 11:51:27
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Corvus Dove
1. Warp Scrambler
Problem with this is that the hauler is flagging itself as hostile after it's already begun the warp process, grabbing the ore after the warp command has been issued. Warp Scramblers won't activate against a target already beginning to warp: you get an error message that says "Target is Invulnerable" if you try. WCS make the problem here worse. Further, the macro is likely insta-ing back to the station: if so, camping the station or following the target does no good. That's why the above posts about "You can shoot them, now you want more??" are moot, because this is working around RMR's new system.
bull****, you can warpscramble a ship even when its trying to warp, geez you think you need to scramble before he tries warping. warp in with 30 tempest immidiatly put a warpdrive active to the savespot, fire 2 volleys while being invulnerable and warp out.
you are just to slow to get a scram on him, just lock him and when he steals align to the same spot he is aligning too, while trying to scram him if that fails warp after him. its easy
wow... just simply wow.. left me speachless for a while...
And to think... this reply was from a Mercenary Forces member....
I've come to expect much smarter, more thought out responses from a mercenary corp seeing as how you guys are SUPPOSED to have an angle on how insta's, warping, and general PvP work in eve...
Was I wrong to think this? (hopefully you had "/sarcasm on" when posting that reply)
(Or have I confused you with the usually excellent replies that Mercenary Coalition members provide to the forums?)
offcourse its a freacking joke, notice the "" smile-****zle. and yes i have a fine angle on pvp
_________________________________________________
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.22 13:32:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Drayco Edited by: Drayco on 22/12/2005 01:47:18 For the love of god... Corvus stfu.. You flurbs wanted this now you got it. Bend over and take it like a man. Please by all means cry till they make another patch that gives you rights to do something else... Then complain more that its still unfair. If you don't like how eve is being played. Leave and don't let the pod door hit ya in the arse on the way out.
First off, I'm not a carebear. I'm a pirate. I'm also one of those people using can swapping to get sanctioned kills.
I'm addressing methods to counter what ends in ISK selling. I love the new system. I am concerned, however, with exploitation of lag and avoiding the flagging system altogether.
Remove head from arse, then post. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.12.22 13:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Jin Entres on 22/12/2005 13:56:15 Let me give you a simple solution instead:
Jettison additional cans around your ore can so that it is impossible to align to warp next to it without bumping into one. These cans will also be protected by flagging.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 22/12/2005 13:56:15 Let me give you a simple solution instead:
Jettison additional cans around your ore can so that it is impossible to align to warp next to it without bumping into one. These cans will also be protected by flagging.
AFAIK jetting cans to obstruct movement is considered an exploit by CCP.....irony 4tl. Whenever I kill a macrominer/farmer, I imagine some kid in a Chinese sweatshop having his kidney removed and sold on the black market for not making quota, and I get the warm-fuzzies. |
Darkdashing
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Posted - 2006.01.13 11:19:00 -
[50]
I've taken about 400,000 this week of certain ores from macro miners in .6 space that are afk, eheh I hope they aren't reducing themselves to this tactic.
There is beauty in tension.... |
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Scarlet Pimpernel
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Posted - 2006.01.13 13:46:00 -
[51]
Maybe I'm missing something but can someone answer these for me
What is the big deal with macro miners anyway?
How do you tell if someone is a macro miner?
am I the only one thinking people are massively over reacting to this (possible because of lack of answer to the above I grant you)
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2006.01.13 15:31:00 -
[52]
Im confused, just how does this "macro stealing" work?
Are you suggesting that you have ppl macro warping into a belt, macroing a approach to within 1500, empty can and warp away?
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.."
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Udahoe
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Posted - 2006.01.13 15:54:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Udahoe on 13/01/2006 15:55:26 Edited by: Udahoe on 13/01/2006 15:55:13 ...
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Loodo Viscious
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Posted - 2006.01.13 15:55:00 -
[54]
"One thing that would help is to make the 14 day trial a necessary prelude to subscription"
That is stupid im afraid
"who needs pitty from a pirate, and blow it up myself..."--Cergorach
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Mack Deluxe
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Posted - 2006.01.13 18:36:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Wee Dave I don't understand this. Macroers can steal up to 27500 units of low quality ore every fifteen minutes. At *best*. Per account. And they have to find a target.
This cannot be profitable.
By itself it probably isn't. Although most miners, after not being able to fight back, will move on, thus securing the belt/system for the isk farmers.
I know the difference between right and wrong... I just don't care. |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2006.01.13 22:51:00 -
[56]
3 weeks old. And my thread. I still say Necromancy 4tl when there's an official macro thread in general discussion now. ------------------------------------ Join Channel MacroIntel! |
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