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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.08.07 19:39:00 -
[391] - Quote
Rainbow Prism Colorblind wrote:IF you remove the +4 and +5 it would only make +3 cost around 1 bil instead sense it would be the best implant.
+3 implants cost 5 million ISK + 5000 LP from the LP store. I really don't think anyone would pay one billion for 5000 LP, when you can get them in less than an hour by doing a couple of L4 missions.
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Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.08.07 19:49:00 -
[392] - Quote
Rainbow Prism Colorblind wrote: Hmm, what is this talk about barriers, and why you you NEED to train the skill? your not forced to have the skill learned,
Rise described the issue pretty well:
CCP Rise wrote:The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time.
In other words, you are forced to train this skill to "fix" the design flaw he identified.
That's why most people would much rather see the issue separated into two:
1. If this is a design flaw (as mentioned in the first post), fix it by reducing the base timer (ex., to 23 hours).
2. If CCP thinks there should be a skill to decrease the cooldown even further, then add that skill independently of the fix for the design flaw.
If they had just announced #1 (implementing the obvious "fix" for dailies that every other MMO has had for years), they wouldn't now have dozens of people whining to make #2 more powerful.
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2013.08.07 19:49:00 -
[393] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:As for specific examples... well, to be honest there are far to many to begin to list here (and my time is limited at the moment). Perhaps the simplest way to say it in the limited time and space I have is that it becomes far too easy to go on a day trip in a fully equipped clone in one corner of EVE... and then that evening hop back across the universe (again in a fully equipped clone) for a completely different activity that night.
No commitment necessary, no real planning necessary, no sacrifices made... just click a button and there you are, fully outfitted for whatever the occasion may be. That's not really challenging game play.
Actually, what you describe isn't gameplay at all. It's the meta around the gameplay. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
253
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:16:00 -
[394] - Quote
Thank you! 19h is just right - doesn't change the way in which clones will be used but lets you change once a day.
I read the first page of feedback and you are all ungrateful swine! Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1101
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:21:00 -
[395] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey, I am at the office working so don't go trying to use the holiday as an excuse to not be here.
What he said
Also: happy with this happening finally even if imho this isn't going as far as it could be, specially knowing the average age of Eve players is at the most active one (some at least), but 19h is already a huge step.
Thx for taking care of this important issue for many RL active people (you should know something about it too heh)
EDIT: for all ungrateful haters you guys should get a job and stop moaning for something not impacting whatever in your awesome existence. By the way CCP should also nerf pod traveling to make you guys stop moaning for and with fake arguments. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1101
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:28:00 -
[396] - Quote
Shantetha wrote:3 days before every pvp corp and nullsec corp requires it trained to 5 as part of joining requirements.
If it happens pack your stuff ,sell whatever you can't or want to move and find a better environment corporation/alliance.
As simple as it is if you or someone is in whatever corp/alliance and has to deal with this kind of crap as mandatory you're playing the wrong game, in the wrong area with he wrong corporation and specially alliance.
Try to play with mature people who know what having a life is and leave those special snowflakes in between them. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
413
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:31:00 -
[397] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Is a reduction to locking time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit? Is a reduction to align time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit? Is a reduction to manufacturing time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit? Is a reduction to POS fuel consumption a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit? None of those are quality of life. Being able to lock a target with ctrl+click, rather than GÇ£select in overview, mouse over to selected items, click lockGÇ¥ is quality of l life. Being able to align to a target with a+click, rather than GÇ£select in overview, mouse over to selected items, click align toGÇ¥ is quality of life. Being able to dump a whole bunch of blueprints into a facility and set up a batch job using available slots rather than GÇ£select blueprint, rclickGåÆmanufacture, select facility, select slot, select input, select output, select number of runs, accept, accept, repeat nine more timesGÇ¥ is quality of life (too bad we don't have it yet). Being able to use fuel blocks rather than individual fuel components is quality of life. In this case, the goal to make clone jumping not be pushed back later and later every time you use it, but rather make it be something you do once a day is the same kind of quality of life improvement: it doesn't give you any advantage, but makes the game better to play and removes pointless busywork. It is a recognised game flaw, and if they want to fix it, the correct way of going about that is to fix it. Painting over the problem with nonsensical timesinks is not fixing it GÇö it's adding another design flaw (that will inevitably be used as a pis s-poor excuse for never fixing the problem after all). Quote:I am all for increasing the hour reduction of this skill from 1 to 2, along with increasing the base clone jump timer from 24 hours to 28 hours just to make it clear that you are indeed buying an advantage. But that's not the goal. Again, my objection to this idiocy is that they purport to want to fix something they see as a long-standing flaw, but then they decide to not actually do that, but rather do something completely different. If they want to add in skills that give people something to train and let them clonejump more often, then sure. Let's do that. But then don't paint it up as a fix to the explicitly recognised design flaw because it does nothing of the kind. If GÇ£the goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play timeGÇ¥ then they should make it so that the clone delay does not push jump clone use back a bit each play session. This is something completely unrelated to letting people train the advantage of being able to jump more often. One is a (lack-of-)quality-of-life design flaw. It is fixed by removing the design flaw. The other is a gameplay option. It is fixed by giving players options. Not being subjected to design flaws should not be an option GÇö it should be the default GÇö and using the latter to do the former is inherently incorrect and in every way awful design. Until they've reduced the clone jump timer to 23 hours (or, hell, 23h55min), the design flaw they claim they want to fix is left unfixed, and people should keep asking CCP for that kind of reduction. GÇ£Just train the skillGÇ¥ is an unacceptable, lazy and intellectually dishonest answer to someone being subjected to something the devs have correctly identified as not working properly. The gospel, everyone. Read it and enjoy.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7506
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:33:00 -
[398] - Quote
Not sure I like this plan. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15943
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:45:00 -
[399] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:for all ungrateful haters you guys should get a job and stop moaning for something not impacting whatever in your awesome existence. Being stuck with a game design flaw just because I don't want to spend money and time on some irrelevant skill that I don't need impacts me quite a bitGǪ
GǪand, quite frankly, makes no sense. Add in the skill, if that's what everyone wants, but fix the design flaw first. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
413
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Posted - 2013.08.07 21:03:00 -
[400] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:for all ungrateful haters you guys should get a job and stop moaning for something not impacting whatever in your awesome existence. Being stuck with a game design flaw just because I don't want to spend money and time on some irrelevant skill that I don't need impacts me quite a bitGǪ GǪand, quite frankly, makes no sense. Add in the skill, if that's what everyone wants, but fix the design flaw first. Tippia, I would LOVE to sit here and tell you that your argument carries so much logic that anyone--Devs, forum warriors, average players, etc.--who read it ought to know that the choice to implement a skill is the wrong way to go. I would tell you that your impeccable logic makes the best, most concise argument in this whole thread. It clears the issue up well, addresses why implementing a skill to address a design intent "problem" is wrong, as well as provides reasons for using a skill for a meaningful change is a better avenue to take. Indeed, I would be right to say that your logic is unequalled. But sadly, I cannot tell you that it will not fall on deaf ears.
After having a discussion, CCP has determined that it's better to require you to train a skill to improve your daily quality-of-life. Or, if you are inconvenienced by training the time sink, you can always be *more* inconvenienced by not being able to play in your "normal" clone at your regular time. I think this is the most frustrating aspect of this proposal: CCP didn't say we want to improve clone travel, so we're going to start by decreasing the time a little to assess its impacts. They identified the frustrating situation where you essentially have to JC every other day, since, in many cases, the timer falls outside of "regular" login hours. Obviously, if it is a matter of player inconvenience and a solution for it, there should be a baseline change.
Further, there are no real, credible arguments to support keeping it implemented as a skill. If it was an issue with force projection, any and all arguments there fall, since people can just pod express an unlimited amount of times in a similar amount of time. And if its a matter of using a skill to derive a real benefit, then why remove the learning skills? Those, too, were "optional" yet provided a real benefit.
At this point, I expect to see other "quality of life skills" that allow me to access my POS SMAs from farther away, disable the shake on the jump tunnel camera, extend my skill queue 1 hour per level, or similar. I mean, hey, they sky's the limit!
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. |
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2013.08.07 21:13:00 -
[401] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:At this point, I expect to see other "quality of life skills" that allow me to access my POS SMAs from farther away, disable the shake on the jump tunnel camera, extend my skill queue 1 hour per level, or similar. I mean, hey, they sky's the limit!
I'd pay an extra PLEX per month to eliminate the jump tunnel animation and audio which makes my speakers crackle.
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DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:10:00 -
[402] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Why?
In more words... Why buff safe instantaneous travel? If this change is supposed to help with implants, allow clone switching in stations. I hope you give this some more thought :S
Since this (good idea) would have the consequence of creating "less tears", it goes against the EVE motto's, hence it won't be implemented. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
El 1974
Green Visstick High Green Rhino
91
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Posted - 2013.08.08 08:22:00 -
[403] - Quote
The problem I see with adding this skill is that CCP really needs to fundamentally redo the jumpcloning and deathcloning mechanics. Adding another skill as a quick and dirty fix to a minor problem when you know you will need to change its attributes 'soon' is not the right way forward when they can just reduce the timer without that skill now and come up with a more complete solution (incl. a new skill) later. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
2121
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:34:00 -
[404] - Quote
Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
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Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
257
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:44:00 -
[405] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
Thanks again Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
219
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:50:00 -
[406] - Quote
Now just add the ability to store all your clones in one station and hot swap them with no or very little cooldown and I'll love you long time. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1115
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:53:00 -
[407] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
Awesome addition to our favorite game, so many players are going to be happy with these changes and be able to do so many more things now.
Awesome stuff. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1115
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:02:00 -
[408] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:As for specific examples... well, to be honest there are far to many to begin to list here (and my time is limited at the moment). Perhaps the simplest way to say it in the limited time and space I have is that it becomes far too easy to go on a day trip in a fully equipped clone in one corner of EVE... and then that evening hop back across the universe (again in a fully equipped clone) for a completely different activity that night.
No commitment necessary, no real planning necessary, no sacrifices made... just click a button and there you are, fully outfitted for whatever the occasion may be. That's not really challenging game play. Actually, what you describe isn't gameplay at all. It's the meta around the gameplay.
Also, the guy spending 19 hours in front of his computer complaining about how easy space pixels are could also do something else like take a shower, have some food, take a girlfriend to snack/restaurant, cinema, read a book, meet some friends, take care of his family call his parents brothers/sisters, play an instrument etc.
Well it's not really like a normal person with a job working 8-12H and happy to play his favorite space ship game to relax of his day work that now will not be stuck until late evening to give a hand to his friends and still be able to return tomorrow after work log in and return at his favorite in game stuff, but, at least would give his comment have some sense. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Victor Rayl
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:51:00 -
[409] - Quote
Akturous wrote:Now just add the ability to store all your clones in one station and hot swap them with no or very little cooldown and I'll love you long time. Why not just make implants unpluggable then? Switching implants is the only valid use of your proposal and I'm against it for obvious reasons. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
24
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:18:00 -
[410] - Quote
I want to transport my Jumpclones on my own! |
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Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
262
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:21:00 -
[411] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
\o/ WOOT! Finally, well done CCP R.I.P. Vile Rat |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
388
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:27:00 -
[412] - Quote
Throwing bad after bad.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3948
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:19:00 -
[413] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:It's hard to give feedback if you've limited all discussion to a non-existent skill you've already said isn't likely to change.
Nice start. Something is better than nothing. But just looking at votes in the reasonable things thread shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that significantly lowering the timer is what the community wants.
Thanks for chipping away at it though.
A common suggestion for improving chess is for my side to start with two ranks of queens. This won't necessarily make the game as much better as I expect.
The purpose of jump clones is to allow for a different play style during each daily play session. So once per 24 hours, allowing for an average of four to five hours play per day (because you log in immediately upon returning home from work and keep playing until bed time), means that 19 hours provides ample opportunity to switch to a new clone once every daily session.
The people looking for 12 hour jump clones are clearly looking to switch between null combat and hisec training clones every day. They want everything but wish to sacrifice nothing. There are clearly sacrifices to be made for the convenience of switching playstyles every day, one of those is the restriction to live in that clone for the next 19-24 hours.
Rather than reduce the clone jump timer to allow switching between training and combat implants every day, what about addressing the real issue which is remaps and attribute implants? But no, they want everything while sacrificing nothing. They are so addicted to accelerated training that taking away training implants (which would in many cases eliminate the requirement for jump clones in the first place) will be decried as anathema to the spirit of the game. Which is bunkum.
Some folks just need to learn to play the game, not the mechanics. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Major Thrasher
The Lollipop Guild Brave Collective
15
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:23:00 -
[414] - Quote
12 hours would make alot more sense imo
also being able to switch clones without a timer if you travel to the station your clone is in, imo wouldn't break anything. would still force people to travel, but at least then you could use your own clone when you need it. . |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
175
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:45:00 -
[415] - Quote
\0/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4469
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:49:00 -
[416] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Gospadin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:As for specific examples... well, to be honest there are far to many to begin to list here (and my time is limited at the moment). Perhaps the simplest way to say it in the limited time and space I have is that it becomes far too easy to go on a day trip in a fully equipped clone in one corner of EVE... and then that evening hop back across the universe (again in a fully equipped clone) for a completely different activity that night.
No commitment necessary, no real planning necessary, no sacrifices made... just click a button and there you are, fully outfitted for whatever the occasion may be. That's not really challenging game play. Actually, what you describe isn't gameplay at all. It's the meta around the gameplay. Also, the guy spending 19 hours in front of his computer complaining about how easy space pixels are could also do something else like take a shower, have some food, take a girlfriend to snack/restaurant, cinema, read a book, meet some friends, take care of his family call his parents brothers/sisters, play an instrument etc. Well it's not really like a normal person with a job working 8-12H and happy to play his favorite space ship game to relax of his day work that now will not be stuck until late evening to give a hand to his friends and still be able to return tomorrow after work log in and return at his favorite in game stuff/ His comment has no sense but for people who lost all sense of reality and priorities. This mechanic brings absolutely nothing positive in terms of gaming experience and if they really like that much harsh stuff, finding a job and keep it would be a good place to start. I work a full time job and have 3 children, yet somehow I still find the 30 seconds necessary to think about whether a clone jump fits my plans better or to simply fly there.
Sure, I like to play games that boil down to "click the button = instant action" from time to time.... usually when I'm tired and can't be bothered to engage my brain. That also explains why I play EVE more often than those other games. I prefer to actually use my brain to achieve my goals, as well as point and laugh at those that can't seem to handle that. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
maCH'EttE
Mafia Redux Phobia.
64
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:52:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
HAHAHAHA..ANOTHER F'EN SKILL.. THANKS CCP. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15366
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:54:00 -
[418] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
This was rather unexpected. I will be training it and thanks.
My only issue with it, is not being able to use them all in my system. Any chance we could have more in one station?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4469
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:07:00 -
[419] - Quote
Mag's wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
This was rather unexpected. I will be training it and thanks. My only issue with it, is not being able to use them all in my system. Any chance we could have more in one station? Yes, finding homes for all those boys will be an issue.
However they probably want to avoid a situation where you are able to swap clones (and more importantly implants) as easily as you would change clothes. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
ApertureKubi
Red Horse mining and Salvage Universal Consortium
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:12:00 -
[420] - Quote
How about throwing in the ability to name jump clones for quick reference as well? |
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