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Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
303
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey all. Been in sleep mode accruing skill points for some time. After Odyssey dropped I spent a great deal of time doing null runs and had a blast doing, it but then the market crashed and IRL invaded, so I went into sleep mode.
Now I'm starting to get some free time to come back in a few days, and just wanted to check in. Has the market recovered or is exploration income permanently crashed? Is it still profitable? This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1326
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
well, it's about as challenging as fruit ninja, therefore everybody and their hamster is doing it. maybe once people get bored, the prices will recover a little.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
303
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:well, it's about as challenging as fruit ninja, therefore everybody and their hamster is doing it. maybe once people get bored, the prices will recover a little.
A valid complaint. They need higher difficulty sites and more options, along with more use for salvage and decryptors. It's skewed too far supply side. Ah well, Once I get some time I'll dive back in, but here's hoping they iterate on it some more. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1326
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:well, it's about as challenging as fruit ninja, therefore everybody and their hamster is doing it. maybe once people get bored, the prices will recover a little. A valid complaint. They need higher difficulty sites and more options, along with more use for salvage and decryptors. It's skewed too far supply side. Ah well, Once I get some time I'll dive back in, but here's hoping they iterate on it some more. site difficulty is not the problem. the problem is that the whole process is streamlined into oblivion. you can literally scan an entire system by pressing two buttons and waiting for 10s. and that's when there are sigs in the system to begin with; when there are none, your handy dandy system scanner (a.k.a. god eye) will tell you instantly.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Faenir Antollare
University of Caille Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
My main dislike is in the hacking process, in that success really is a random luck based event regardless of skills trained.
Moar challenge please |
Craterius
Symple Onez
41
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Posted - 2013.08.06 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
The system search mechanic and skill requirement of "exploration" under Odyssey reminds me very much of the early Mario Brothers.
The "minigame" has the same feel and skill level as the old videogame, "Space Invaders".
I played both of these. Until I got bored to death with them. Then I quit.
If you like Mario Bros and Space Invaders, then the new Eve "exploration" system is right for you.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
152
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Posted - 2013.08.07 19:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
more time doing stuff in sites or traveling to sites. Less time adjusting probes, dropping probes to see nothing, or sitting cloaked trying to nail down signatures. The camera in the scanning system sucked too. Theres a few valid but minor complaints i suppose. I don't think the influx of new explorers is a valid complaint, or affects on the market. I thought the old scanning system was a bit tedious and repetitive, and the controls were unpolished (y u no probe formations!!!), but even that was less of a hassle than the previous system (shudder).
Bueno. Fighting is Magic |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1452
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Some people like it, some people don't. I'm personally waiting for new "kick to the crotch of Industry" required materials to drop in price, so just training up some new toons cuz the mains are just boring now. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
As someone who has been into exploration for years... I've started doing less and less lately. I still scan and run combat (DED) sites, but I no longer roam through multiple systems looking for unclaimed data/relic sites full of treasures.
The driving reason is the value of the loot I'm receiving. I still run relic sites when I find them, as there are a couple T2 bits that are still not worthless, but I've essentially given-up on running data sites. Most of the time I just cargo scan for a faction/T2/Capital BPC, hack (or fail) one can, and warp away to let the site (eventually) despawn.
For me the novelty of the new hacking mini-game has warn off. Now it's just a bunch of clicking. If I'm actually paying attention I get a successful hack >80% of the time, but even with semi-mindless clicking I rarely loose a can anymore. The spew cans are still a pain, but with practice I'm to the point where I get nearly all the good loot found by cargo scanning.
Pre-Odyssey I was finding 30-60m worth of loot in a mag/arch site, with a few lucky sites with >100m. When Odyssey first came out I was tracked the loot value of every site I did and was finding a very similar average value to pre-Odyseey. However since the markets have crashed (too much supply, not enough demand) I'm thrilled to find a relic site with >50m in loot.
Hopefully CCP will implement some of the ideas that were discussed during some of the pre-Odyssey testing to make the data/relic sites more interesting and lucrative. |
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Frontier Explorer's League Sadistica Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pretty much everyone that tried it on the test server repeatedly told them to not go live with the new "exploration" in its current state. CCP, being CCP, ignored everyone and released with it half finished anyway. Exploration as a profession pretty much crashed as a result, and probably won't be recovered for years at this point. |
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Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
117
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
After Odissey hit, there is something that is itching me. It is not the price of decryptors and also not the price of salvage, but the price of deadspace mods that i am accustomed to - namely the medium shield stuff. It's all dropping in price. (only thing that has remained somewhat stable is a-type invul)
At first i attributed it to summer 'draught', that meaning not many people online and the market having not much incentive to buy. I am however not anymore convinced that this is the reason why prices are falling that much. After the ban of strategic cruisers from 4/10 complexes and the removal of deep space scanner probes (yea i know you can do sorta the same still), i honestly would have expected the prices to go up - but it is not so, they are 'crashing'.
So really i dont understand it at this moment. Either the overall easyness of scanning (you can scan systems way faster now) has 'produced' more drops, or there is something else going on. I could imagine some long term marketing schenanigans, but it seems kinda risky to me. I could also see that the overall attention that exploration has gotten after the last patch is influencing supply/demand (again not talking about relics and datas). And then there might be tweaking of chances on the side of CCP, but i dont really want to get into that.
So yea currently i am leaning towards thinking that scanning is easier, that some market stuff is going on and also that shield modules might actually become less 'interesting'.
Other than that - minigame is fun for a bit, but not so long. The removal of rats from those sites - namely nullsec is imo just not right. |
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Frontier Explorer's League Sadistica Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:After Odissey hit, there is something that is itching me. It is not the price of decryptors and also not the price of salvage, but the price of deadspace mods that i am accustomed to - namely the medium shield stuff. It's all dropping in price. (only thing that has remained somewhat stable is a-type invul)
At first i attributed it to summer 'draught', that meaning not many people online and the market having not much incentive to buy. I am however not anymore convinced that this is the reason why prices are falling that much. After the ban of strategic cruisers from 4/10 complexes and the removal of deep space scanner probes (yea i know you can do sorta the same still), i honestly would have expected the prices to go up - but it is not so, they are 'crashing'.
So really i dont understand it at this moment. Either the overall easyness of scanning (you can scan systems way faster now) has 'produced' more drops, or there is something else going on. I could imagine some long term marketing schenanigans, but it seems kinda risky to me..
That is exactly what's causing it. Scanning was made so childproof that anyone with mediocre skills in a non-bonused hull can easily scan down 3/10s and 4/10s in high sec, and most people that wouldn't have even bothered before are realizing that they can run them in a T1 cruiser. Competition for 3-4/10s has increased about 5x in the area I used to run them in, after the changes. I don't even bother anymore. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
117
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes but why is stuff from 5/10 and 6/10 (invul not that much) also going down then? Are c-type the trend setters? Is lowsec affected the same (with easier scanning, probably)? I wish i was a market analyst really ;) |
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Frontier Explorer's League Sadistica Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:Yes but why is stuff from 5/10 and 6/10 (invul not that much) also going down then? Are c-type the trend setters? Is lowsec affected the same (with easier scanning, probably)? I wish i was a market analyst really ;)
I'm sure easier scanning is part of it, but the 3-4/10 loot price going down is also a factor. If C-types are cheaper, people will be willing to pay less for B-types because the quality gap isn't that big, so more people will settle for the slightly worse mod. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1433
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 04:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:After Odissey hit, there is something that is itching me. It is not the price of decryptors and also not the price of salvage, but the price of deadspace mods that i am accustomed to - namely the medium shield stuff. It's all dropping in price. (only thing that has remained somewhat stable is a-type invul)
At first i attributed it to summer 'draught', that meaning not many people online and the market having not much incentive to buy. I am however not anymore convinced that this is the reason why prices are falling that much. After the ban of strategic cruisers from 4/10 complexes and the removal of deep space scanner probes (yea i know you can do sorta the same still), i honestly would have expected the prices to go up - but it is not so, they are 'crashing'.
So really i dont understand it at this moment. Either the overall easyness of scanning (you can scan systems way faster now) has 'produced' more drops, or there is something else going on. I could imagine some long term marketing schenanigans, but it seems kinda risky to me. I could also see that the overall attention that exploration has gotten after the last patch is influencing supply/demand (again not talking about relics and datas). And then there might be tweaking of chances on the side of CCP, but i dont really want to get into that.
So yea currently i am leaning towards thinking that scanning is easier, that some market stuff is going on and also that shield modules might actually become less 'interesting'.
Other than that - minigame is fun for a bit, but not so long. The removal of rats from those sites - namely nullsec is imo just not right.
I know it's not your cup of tea, but it's worthwhile to throw in: deadspace medium armor mods are crashing a bit too. Like the a-type invuln, a-type EANMs aren't moving much, but MARs are way off where they were six months ago. So it's not just shield mods; something else is going on. |
exxon halliburton
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
the hacking game is ok i guess, the problem is that all of your loot spews out and then disapears after a SUCCESSFUL hack. I have stopped doing the sites completely and just mindlessly run anoms (null sec), its WAY better isk/hr and WAY less frustrating |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
211
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:Yes but why is stuff from 5/10 and 6/10 (invul not that much) also going down then? Are c-type the trend setters? Is lowsec affected the same (with easier scanning, probably)? I wish i was a market analyst really ;)
My guess would be that the drop in data/relic loot value made a bunch of people switch over to farming ded sites. It's certainly something that i considered. Tho i do something else instead personaly. |
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:After Odissey hit, there is something that is itching me. It is not the price of decryptors and also not the price of salvage, but the price of deadspace mods that i am accustomed to - namely the medium shield stuff. It's all dropping in price. (only thing that has remained somewhat stable is a-type invul)
With the new system scanner people now know there is something (don't know exactly what) to scan for without dropping probes. Pre-Odyssey I could scan systems with nearly constant ratting and find DED sites because nobody bothered to take the time to scan them down. Now once a new cosmic signature pops-up on the system scanner someone knows to drop probes and find it. I also think since more people are running around looking for data/relic sites, they are finding the DED sites as well.
I also have a hunch that the drop rates on some items have been increased, but maybe I've just been having good luck with the RNG lately.
Johan Toralen wrote:My guess would be that the drop in data/relic loot value made a bunch of people switch over to farming ded sites.
I know I've switched my efforts more towards DED sites (or waiting for them to respawn) than scouring systems for more data/relic sites. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
117
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Posted - 2013.08.09 18:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Toddfish wrote:With the new system scanner people now know there is something (don't know exactly what) to scan for without dropping probes. Pre-Odyssey I could scan systems with nearly constant ratting and find DED sites because nobody bothered to take the time to scan them down. Now once a new cosmic signature pops-up on the system scanner someone knows to drop probes and find it. I also think since more people are running around looking for data/relic sites, they are finding the DED sites as well.
Oh yeah. I don't like that at all ... but it's more got to do with myself seeing sigs when i am in a non-probe ship and getting all itchy :) I see what you mean tho. |
Alby Sacah
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.11 08:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've just tried exploration again after a few years, it's good they made some changes, but I think they've made as many bad as good changes in this area.
The new scanning UI and animations etc are good, the click once to launch 8 probes, click once to automatically position all 8 are making things quite easy though. The hacking mini-game isn't bad, the loot spew sucks. Most of Eve all the UI is large and easy to click, but these tiny containers are proving too difficult for me, and why do they have to disappear?
Guess I'll go back to sites... |
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CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.08.11 08:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
The new system is better than before, I agree that exploration is easier now, but that's the idea when you want new players join that part of the game.
Scanning used to be a tedious task and very repetitive, that is gone now.
It would be awesome if something could be made about the market prices of exploration stuff, but I'm pretty sure they'll let it flow at its own pace.
The hacking minigame idea is not bad, but now that I've spent some time playing it gets boring and repetitive.
About the spawning containers, well it's kind of exciting trying to get most of the cans.
And again ... Thanks for the new animations CCP...!!! |
Holgrak Blacksmith
European Research and Industry Corp
124
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Posted - 2013.08.11 08:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've been running data/relic sites in angel 0.0. I have the skills for these sites trained to lvl 2 - That's 2 hours of training time, and I DO NOT fail to beat the mini game, even with these terrible skills. That seems to be a problem. Surely null sites should need pretty decent skills to have any chance of popping the loot pi+Ķata. Perhaps making it so you only get one chance at the mini game, rather than 2, would make it slightly more challenging and require better skills. |
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
70
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Posted - 2013.08.14 04:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Toddfish wrote:
With the new system scanner people now know there is something (don't know exactly what) to scan for without dropping probes. Pre-Odyssey I could scan systems with nearly constant ratting and find DED sites because nobody bothered to take the time to scan them down. Now once a new cosmic signature pops-up on the system scanner someone knows to drop probes and find it. I also think since more people are running around looking for data/relic sites, they are finding the DED sites as well.
This killed exploration for me. I went wild with probing when they announced the removal of DSP. I did not realize that the auto scanner would have a far greater impact. The month or so before the patch I made 20-30 billion ISK doing exploration. Now, I don't even bother to log in and check. It is rare that I find sites of any type and even rarer to find something worth bothering to do, at least from a making ISK perspective. I was making about 500 million ISK per hour, now am about 40 million ISK per hour doing the same strategy in the same place with the same people around. Only difference was the expansion.
Ah well, lots of sites and good drops so I am set for ISK for a long time still. Time to find another cash cow.
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Talemecus Valta
Freemasons Corporation
138
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Posted - 2013.08.14 08:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
The only really good thing about the exploration now is the wormholes.
Here you can find a null sec wormhole and make good money, faster travel routes around EVE, and do sleeper sites in W-Space.
To make any real money from exploration any where else than null, you have to hoard your stuff. By holding onto the stuff you get from relic sites, you can create a demand where you are and you get a huge hit of ISK when you sell them.
Only 40 rounds per gun... I hate reloading in the middle!
I'll make it through each day, Singing DEATH OR GLORY!!!!
Hodor! |
Willie Horton
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
25
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Posted - 2013.08.14 09:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
CMD Ishikawa wrote:The new system is better than before, I agree that exploration is easier now, but that's the idea when you want new players join that part of the game.
This change hurts more new players than old ones. Before change new player could go and do radar site in high sec and make in best case 30 mil.Now he will get a lot less than that.
Exploration was niche not something like lvl 4 missions.Removing effort from scanning is not helping any new players,it is just giving them some content that is not special like it was before ,and that way they are earning way less than before this changes.
Now all those new guys are farming line nuts for nothing,while ship prices are going up .
Exploration atm is utter crap compared how it was before.
Only good thing about it is that players go more to null sec and get killed,so more targets. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
164
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Posted - 2013.08.14 14:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:Yes but why is stuff from 5/10 and 6/10 (invul not that much) also going down then? Are c-type the trend setters? Is lowsec affected the same (with easier scanning, probably)? I wish i was a market analyst really ;) because it is so damn easy to scan down everything, everyone now run those sites.
also, the spawn rate of those sites seemed to have increased post odyssey.
so more of those mods available => price dropping.
i used to do exploration daily, i don't even boter login my explo alt anymore, not worth it.
i did a little test, a 2 day toon scan anything 100%, and does it faster than my well trained alt, clearly CCP broke the whole thing.
now, the only thng i want from CCP, is that once i set this **** sensor overlay on OFF, it doesn't pop evry time i jumpa a gate or undock, exploration doesn't exist anymore in this game so why should i see this? |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
180
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Posted - 2013.08.14 15:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
In early 09 scanning was too easy.
They made it to hard that spring.
Now it's too easy again.
They just keep missing the mark. |
Craterius
Symple Onez
41
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Posted - 2013.08.15 13:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
In the Mario Bros game, when Mario enters a room, the loot location within the room is identified by a throbbing heart/coin/box/whatever. Mario goes to the throbbing loot source, clicks on it, is given the reward, and then moves on to the next room, where the same thing happens.
Question: Can anyone distinguish "exploration" in Mario Bros from "exploration" in EvE, right now?
I didn't think so. |
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scanning is well out of balance. As a fully skilled up covops pilot I typically take a few iterations to get a sig.
Seems like any noob can do exactly that with a few more iterations - it almost like anyone can scan anything and run any site. Voila the market crashed bigtime. Now I dont bother, its no longer 'interesting' because there is no point moving around systems trying to be 1st.
What was once a means of income, is now one of the most pointless parts of the game. Skills mean nothing as we can all get to all stuff, and 'exploring' means nothing as every system is covered almost as a sig appears. |
kyofu
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
39
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Posted - 2013.08.20 07:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
I've been exploring for a long time on and off. I spentthe majority of my time in EVE doing exploration. I have about 4 months left in my subscription, and I won't be renewing it due entirely to the changes odyssey made to exploration. I hate most of them - I gave them a fair shake, but i dislike the new content, the delivery and looting system, and i despise what the changes did to the existing content.
It's sad, EVE is a great game, but exploration was what I loved and in my opinion it has been ruined. All my exploration skills being level V now just hurts to see - what a waste.
I'm sure in a few years exploration will again be interesting, possibly even fun but until then and unless that happens I will find another game. |
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