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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2283
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Posted - 2013.08.06 15:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, the basic Marauder has 4 weapon hard points. These are bonused to 100% additional damage, making them perform equal to 8 weapon points.
Now, let's consider making their defense interesting, as more than just an implied heavy assault battleship.
The Marauder generates an additional holographic and shielded version of itself for each level of the Marauder skill above level 1. (Level 5 gives you four decoy Marauders, level 2 just gives you one decoy)
Cycle time for this ability subject to balance, but 20 minutes before re-use sounds like a good start. Decoys can warp with host in system, but docking / decoy destruction / system change makes them unavailable till cycle finishes. Docking includes entering a POS shield.
These decoys ONLY have shields, and pop out of existence when the shield limit is reached. (For Armor based defenses types, the shield emulates partial damage to armor, popping when total damage equals an amount equal to the tank version used) (IE: The decoy pops when armor OR shield amount is reached, whichever is greater)
The decoy does NOT have the same resistances as the host ship. It will have a fraction of the host ship's resistances, with a bonus for every unused decoy granted to the decoys in action. Example: Pilot has Marauder 5. Pilot deploys 3 of the possible 4 decoys they are capable of using. Lost or destroyed decoys do not help surviving ones, the bonus must be used instead of being deployed. Resist bonus granted to deployed ships is equal to the percentage of unused decoys. Since they are not deploying a fourth, they can use that energy to grant a 25% resist bonus to the other three.
If they deployed 2 out of 4, they would be giving the deployed two decoys a 50% resist bonus.
If they only deployed 1 out of 4, they would be giving it a 75% resist bonus.
This does not improve the host ships resistances, and boosting only affects the host ship, not the decoys.
Decoys will visually emulate weapons fire, but have none of their own.
Decoys can be targeted by drones, and attacking drones will randomly pick a target if the pilot does not do so manually. Drones lack the ability to recognize a decoy, and will select one of the ships at random if the host engages a drone user.
Decoys appear on the overview as duplicates of the original, with no difference in appearance to tell them apart. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
564
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Posted - 2013.08.06 15:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
You really do come up with some interesting concepts, Nik.
Personally I liked the emergency jump one better but this definitely has it's merits.
The only thing that strikes me about this is whether it would either be of any realistic use or overpowered in PvP depending on circumstance.
In solo PvP it seems unlikely you'd get this off as a defender before your opponent has started to lock you up meaning the decoys would be of no use. As an attacker you might manage to get your decoys off before your opponent clicks on you in the overview although only if your opponent isn't really paying any attention.
In fleet PvP this could end up being an absolute nightmare. The server, after all, is going to have to keep tabs on the decoys and so server load will be increased meaning that a fleet of 100 of these might be damn cool and cause your enemies a total headache with a potential 500 targets but it could cause horrid tidi and in fact could be used in larger fleets specifically to do this. I'm not saying this is necessarily a game breaker as fleets already do this but it's something to consider.
Where I can see this working well is in small, mixed gang warfare. A couple of these in a ten man gang could potentially muddy the waters enough to swing a small scale fight.
Interesting but with more potential problems than your emergency jump idea. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2283
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
For the server, they would be equal to drones to load balance, minus the need to compute any damage output from them.
When doing aggressive play, keep in mind they warp with you inside a system.
The Marauder is not really a defensive ship, but you could cycle the decoys every 20 minutes. Someone watching you carefully for that long might be able to pinpoint which is the real you, if they are that patient and you are just sitting around in space.
Not sure how to handle them with gate camps, but then many situations need special attention for that aspect. Possibly the ability to have them deploy at the same time you drop cloak, assuming the cycle is not still cooling off from previous use. 2 to 5 Marauders could appear at the same time, good luck trying to figure out which to point, and just how sure are people going to be that they are trying to get away, rather than violence the camp itself. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Bruce Willers
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
This sounds like it's a huge pain to implement correctly, especially if you want to make sure there is no way of telling which ship is the original.... |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2283
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bruce Willers wrote:This sounds like it's a huge pain to implement correctly, especially if you want to make sure there is no way of telling which ship is the original.... It might be simple, depending on the details.
Duplicate the host on the overview, no variations to indicate which is which.
Decoy behavior could be controlled the same as drones, or as simply as them flying in a random formation which included the original. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4450
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
SHADOW CLONE JUTSU ACTIVATE! To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2283
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:SHADOW CLONE JUTSU ACTIVATE! Cool analogy, but I don't want to push it quite that far.
The shadow clones were capable of attacking, even if at a lower power.
These really are just decoys, even if great big menacing ones. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Sublime Rage
Corpus Alienum Game 0f Tears
739
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
unless the "clones" had other random pilot names they wouldnt phase anybody .i dont really like the idea |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2284
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sublime Rage wrote:unless the "clones" had other random pilot names they wouldnt phase anybody .i dont really like the idea This is a proposal for aggressive use in combat.
The attacking ship, by using a decoy augmented defense, attempts to delay being damaged to a point where they need to disengage or otherwise lose the fight. The damage is diffused between multiple targets, or the opponent gambles that they know the real target and pins their hopes on being right.
The intended effect is to make this Marauder class into one that can be used far more aggressively than others, by opening new tactics and opportunities for strategy with them. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
451
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sounds like a fantasy mmo magic thing to me, honestly. I would rather Marauders be able to fit Siege Modules or something like that, but with reduced effects. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2284
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Sounds like a fantasy mmo magic thing to me, honestly. I would rather Marauders be able to fit Siege Modules or something like that, but with reduced effects. Fantasy having elements also present in science fiction? Very common theme, but this was not inspired by fantasy. Mirrors, followed by holograms and forcefields, form the basis that this was inspired by.
Like any tech two ship, it is reasonable to specialize the ship into a specific role, often one not available to the tech one version except by generalized aspects.
Now, like the tier 3 BCs, a tier 3 BS that could mount siege or capital items might be notable, but not worthy of describing as tech two. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
106
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah... I think I'm going to have to pass on this one. All they really need to do is buff the resistances, increase the sensor strength, a third rig slot and at least one additional slot (mid or low, depending on the ship). I'd rather see them get rid of the tractor beam bonus and replace it with something like a +5% capacitor recharge bonus and -20% warp signature reduction for MWD per Marauder level. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2297
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Yeah... I think I'm going to have to pass on this one. All they really need to do is buff the resistances, increase the sensor strength, a third rig slot and at least one additional slot (mid or low, depending on the ship). I'd rather see them get rid of the tractor beam bonus and replace it with something like a +5% capacitor recharge bonus and -20% warp signature reduction for MWD per Marauder level. Those are not bad ideas, but they lack specialization.
This is not a tier 2 BS, but rather a TECH TWO.
It needs something specialized, a role that is not practical to attempt with other hulls.
Being generally tougher in an all around sort of way, this is already being handled by the faction hulls. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5560
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 18:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
I cant remember what book series it was I was reading, but their ships had what they called "deception ECM" on them which could make their ships appear to be a larger or smaller class of ship to enemy sensors.
Something like that would be nice for a Marauder.
A lone Cane spots a helpless "Thorax" and goes in for the kill. All of a sudden...the 'Thorax' becomes a Kronos. Ooops. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
106
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Those are not bad ideas, but they lack specialization. This is not a tier 2 BS, but rather a TECH TWO.
It needs something specialized, a role that is not practical to attempt with other hulls. Being generally tougher in an all around sort of way, this is already being handled by the faction hulls.
Fair enough. I still think the first set of tweaks should be implemented, if only to bring them slightly above their Navy counterparts (in lieu of the additional skill requirements and training). Let's take your decoy idea and twist it a bit by heavily simplifying it. Each drone decoy (which would have no offensive capability, but roughly on par with sentries in terms of stats) would reduce the signature radius of the Marauder by -10% per level.
5 drones would basically take a Marauder down to about the size of a cruiser - effectively making it much harder to lock and track, and significantly reducing damage from missiles and torpedoes. It would give Marauders a bit of an edge where they're outnumbered; possibly enough to jump away or maybe get in a few critical strikes to even things up. Thoughts? |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
260
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Posted - 2013.08.06 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: The Marauder generates an additional holographic and shielded version of itself for each level of the Marauder skill above level 1. (Level 5 gives you four decoy Marauders, level 2 just gives you one decoy)
Kage-bunshin-no-jutsu? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2297
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Those are not bad ideas, but they lack specialization. This is not a tier 2 BS, but rather a TECH TWO.
It needs something specialized, a role that is not practical to attempt with other hulls. Being generally tougher in an all around sort of way, this is already being handled by the faction hulls. Fair enough. I still think the first set of tweaks should be implemented, if only to bring them slightly above their Navy counterparts (in lieu of the additional skill requirements and training). Let's take your decoy idea and twist it a bit by heavily simplifying it. Each drone decoy (which would have no offensive capability, but roughly on par with sentries in terms of stats) would reduce the signature radius of the Marauder by -10% per level. 5 drones would basically take a Marauder down to about the size of a cruiser - effectively making it much harder to lock and track, and significantly reducing damage from missiles and torpedoes. It would give Marauders a bit of an edge where they're outnumbered; possibly enough to jump away or maybe get in a few critical strikes to even things up. Thoughts? It IS a good direction, but that type of effect is subtle to the point of needing to be pointed out to many players.
It sounds like something that should be possible to do with any ship using a new type of ECM drone. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2297
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I cant remember what book series it was I was reading, but their ships had what they called "deception ECM" on them which could make their ships appear to be a larger or smaller class of ship to enemy sensors.
Something like that would be nice for a Marauder.
A lone Cane spots a helpless "Thorax" and goes in for the kill. All of a sudden...the 'Thorax' becomes a Kronos. Ooops. That would be a serious option to consider.
There have been a few past threads concerning ship camouflage on this level, and the Marauder may well justify it.
I will add this as a version two to the OP, since it fits the overall intent of deception as a means to facilitate combat. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
331
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 04:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I cant remember what book series it was I was reading, but their ships had what they called "deception ECM" on them which could make their ships appear to be a larger or smaller class of ship to enemy sensors.
Something like that would be nice for a Marauder.
A lone Cane spots a helpless "Thorax" and goes in for the kill. All of a sudden...the 'Thorax' becomes a Kronos. Ooops.
First we need to shake up sensors in general. Deep scan only detects class of ship for example. So you know there is a 'Frigate' out there. Overview only detects race of ship Gallente. Locking the ship up detects actual class & name. Merlin, Piloted by Unsu.....
Just as an example. That makes 'deception mode ECM' much more reasonable, as it only changes one or two of those Paramaters, rather than going from Deep scan telling you exactly what the ship is 100% of the time to being fooled while on grid
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advii
Kossu and Keppana Inc.
26
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Posted - 2013.08.07 09:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
This sounds like a great idea! We don't want to stop there though. I want to be able to shoot fire balls and lightning from my paladin. Myabe holy light of the amarr emperor god? |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2313
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Posted - 2013.08.07 13:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
advii wrote:This sounds like a great idea! We don't want to stop there though. I want to be able to shoot fire balls and lightning from my paladin. Myabe holy light of the amarr emperor god? LOL
For that sort of thing you may want CCP to update their fireworks launchers, not sure about the weapon changes otherwise! Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Gareth Burns
Reclamator's KRYSIS.
23
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Posted - 2013.08.07 13:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
advii wrote:This sounds like a great idea! We don't want to stop there though. I want to be able to shoot fire balls and lightning from my paladin. Myabe holy light of the amarr emperor god?
Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!
I want to cast a divine chain lightning from my paladin! Noblesse Oblige Gû¦ Gareth Burns |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2313
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 13:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gareth Burns wrote:advii wrote:This sounds like a great idea! We don't want to stop there though. I want to be able to shoot fire balls and lightning from my paladin. Myabe holy light of the amarr emperor god? Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! I want to cast a divine chain lightning from my paladin! A field effect weapon... interesting.
We already have bubble effects from hictors, maybe you might want to make a thread.
As to using decoys, we already have crude versions of this every time someone attempts to bait an attack ship into an ambush.
The Marauder in the OP is simply using a more polished and effective version. Tech II specialized, as it were. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Gareth Burns
Reclamator's KRYSIS.
23
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Posted - 2013.08.07 14:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Gareth Burns wrote:advii wrote:This sounds like a great idea! We don't want to stop there though. I want to be able to shoot fire balls and lightning from my paladin. Myabe holy light of the amarr emperor god? Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! I want to cast a divine chain lightning from my paladin! A field effect weapon... interesting. We already have bubble effects from hictors, maybe you might want to make a thread. As to using decoys, we already have crude versions of this every time someone attempts to bait an attack ship into an ambush. The Marauder in the OP is simply using a more polished and effective version. Tech II specialized, as it were.
Nikk I love you,
You take my troll as hell post and turn it into an actual idea. Noblesse Oblige Gû¦ Gareth Burns |
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