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Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
2nd ship lost to a gate camp, 1st time getting podded. Both times in cheap exploration frigates. The first time I lost my ship at a gate, I was attempting to warp to another gate. This time I tried to MWD back to the gate I came in from, still failed.
Other than being faster on warping my pod after my ship blows up, what else did I do wrong? IIRC, system was 0.3 or 0.4.
Also, don't low-sec gates have CONCORD guns guarding them? How exactly does a gate camp operate around them? The gate camp I lost my pod to had only 2 people on it, about 20km away. As far as I know guns have 150km range.
Thx!
Edit: I would convo my killer, but spam protection wants 1 million ISK lol... |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Terra Rosa Militia SpaceMonkey's Alliance
104
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, cloaking in a T1 frig slows you down considerably and they can have an easy time catching up to decloak you.
When I was using a Heron for exploration and came across a gate camp, I would sit cloaked, find the closest object that I could align to, and warp there first before moving to a safe/gate. I don't think I was ever caught that way. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
Say NO-áto CCP-EA. -áRehabilitate Frank!! |
Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't have cloaks, I booked it towards the gate and had 5000m left to go before they stopped me :P |
Jayor Robb
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd be interested if there are any other methods as well.
If there are people waiting at the gate after I jump in, I generally know what safe spot I want to go to and just try to warp out quickly. On my industrial ship I keep a couple of warp stabilizers fitted, which although not a guarantee of safety, has saved me numerous times, especially against single enemies.
Even if you know what safe spot you want sometimes I get away, and sometimes they get me. I think that might just be the nature of the gate camp until you can start using CovOps stealth while warping. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
838
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your options are
1) Warp away, hope you can align and warp before they can point you
2) Burn back to gate... Or, if you're confident that you're faster than any of the ships they have, burn away from them and out of point range
3) use the MWD + cloak trick.
...once you've jumped into the camp. The best option, of course, is to simply not be in a place that is going to be regularly and efficiently camped. I'm going to go ahead and guess that this is your lossmail. Note that the camp. They have a bunch of battlecruisers and battleships (the Sleipneir with a faction warp scrambler) and a heavy interdictor, who I would bet is heavily sensor boosted to almost instantly lock and point anything that comes through the gate.
I would be willing to bet that those guys pretty much do nothing but sit on that gate and blap unsuspecting people who come through the gate. And if you look at the map, you can see why. It's a single lowsec system among a bunch of hisec systems, and it's not trivial to go around. If you set the filter to show ship/pod kills, you can see that 132 ships have been destroyed in the last day there.
So, given that that system is camped often and very heavily, the best defense is to simply not go there. Put it on your avoidance list. If you want to go lowsec, find a place that isn't so heavily camped. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
529
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Posted - 2013.08.07 17:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Why do you have mining lasers on an exploration frigate? Between the lack of mining bonus and the small cargo bay, it's going to be a terrible miner.
If you want to mine in lowsec, grab a Venture. It's fast, it's bonused for mining, it's got a large ore hold and it's got a build in warp stabaliser which combine to make it a pretty effective ship to mine in places where you may want to GTFO fast.
Check the in-game map or dotlan for a quiet system to mine in, preferably one with few kills and few jumps. |
Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Why do you have mining lasers on an exploration frigate? Between the lack of mining bonus and the small cargo bay, it's going to be a terrible miner.
Oh, apologies if I was ambiguous. I just call the Magnate an exploration frigate since I have a few that are actually fitted for it. This was a ****** throwaway boat I was using for L1 low-sec mining/distribution/courier missions. I was making my way to the outskirts of the region and got ambushed.
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Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 17:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I would be willing to bet that those guys pretty much do nothing but sit on that gate and blap unsuspecting people who come through the gate. And if you look at the map, you can see why. It's a single lowsec system among a bunch of hisec systems, and it's not trivial to go around. If you set the filter to show ship/pod kills, you can see that 132 ships have been destroyed in the last day there. So, given that that system is camped often and very heavily, the best defense is to simply not go there. Put it on your avoidance list. If you want to go lowsec, find a place that isn't so heavily camped.
Ah, that is an excellent point. I should've looked at the damn map.
How odd, I only saw 2 people yet the killmail said there's 6 pilots involved?
Also, where are sentry guns located in low-sec? Are they typically around stations only? |
Kyseth
Touring New Eden
38
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Posted - 2013.08.07 17:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kahega has pretty much explained it.
Always know what you are getting into as best you can. Luckily, you have access to a lot of information on the map. Take a look at the traffic (how many jumps the system has had, who is currently around the area), take a look at how many ships have been lost in the last hour/day, how many pods have been killed in the last hour/day. Don't just look at a particular system, but also look at the route to it, and it's neighbors. Maybe that lowsec system looks pretty quite but he neighboring systems could just be a staging ground for suicide gankers when you get back into highsec. Etc... You'll start to get a pretty good idea about the area without even leaving your station.
When you are in a new system, the first thing you should do is create safe spots (look this up if you don't know what this is). Don't just "Warp to 0" on celestials (planets, moons, etc..) either. It's very common for people to warp to 0 or 100km so spread out the use of 30k, 50k, and 70k when making your safes, or when trying to avoid being followed.
Learn and use the MWD+Cloak trick. This will still work on a cloak that isn't covert ops so you should be able to get to this relatively soon. Of course, work towards being able to use covert ops cloak as this will help a ton. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
532
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lufen V2-0-1 wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:Why do you have mining lasers on an exploration frigate? Between the lack of mining bonus and the small cargo bay, it's going to be a terrible miner. Oh, apologies if I was ambiguous. I just call the Magnate an exploration frigate since I have a few that are actually fitted for it.
It is an exploration frigate, bonuses to probe strength.
Quote:This was a ****** throwaway boat I was using for L1 low-sec mining/distribution/courier missions. I was making my way to the outskirts of the region and got ambushed.
I would still suggest a Venture if you're mining in lowsec, missions or otherwise. It'll be faster to mine which means less time sitting in one spot, plus that warp stab bonus.
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
532
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Posted - 2013.08.07 17:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lufen V2-0-1 wrote:Also, where are sentry guns located in low-sec? Are they typically around stations only?
Gates and stations, however they can be tanked which is likely what your attackers did.
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
840
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lufen V2-0-1 wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:I would be willing to bet that those guys pretty much do nothing but sit on that gate and blap unsuspecting people who come through the gate. And if you look at the map, you can see why. It's a single lowsec system among a bunch of hisec systems, and it's not trivial to go around. If you set the filter to show ship/pod kills, you can see that 132 ships have been destroyed in the last day there. So, given that that system is camped often and very heavily, the best defense is to simply not go there. Put it on your avoidance list. If you want to go lowsec, find a place that isn't so heavily camped. Ah, that is an excellent point. I should've looked at the damn map. How odd, I only saw 2 people yet the killmail said there's 6 pilots involved? Also, where are sentry guns located in low-sec? Are they typically around stations only?
Only two of them actually shot you. One just hit you with ECM and another with an infinipoint (heavy interdictor warp disruptor). As for why you didn't see all of them? Either your overview is set incorrectly or, more likely, you just didn't notice (ship names could've been obscured by clouds of drones if they were out)
Sentry guns in lowsec are located around gates as well. They are not omnipotent like CONCORD, however, and only hit one target at a time. Depending on the ship, they can be tanked for quite awhile (not forever, though, since the damage ramps up). Every ship on your lossmail was quite tanky; they could've sat there for minutes without having to retreat due to gate gun fire. Additionally, if they warp away and back to the gate, the sentries stop shooting them.
For anything cruiser or bigger, sentries really exist more to provide a combat edge to the defender - they won't outright stop anything for you. |
Sam Wessette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 17:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you don't have a pod saver tab I would suggest you get one and use it. (I have the Sun, planets and stations but some people don't have stations)
it sounds like you ate it at an exit camp, if you're at an exit gate for more than 5 seconds you're doing it wrong
at an entrance camp you align while in cloak and book it, set a safe spot, and scan them down so you don't walk into an exit camp too. |
Kyseth
Touring New Eden
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote: Either your overview is set incorrectly or, more likely, you just didn't notice (ship names could've been obscured by clouds of drones if they were out)
Another good point --which Sam Wessette also makes. Take a look at setting up your overview for various tasks. Travel, PvE, PvP, Mining, and the all popular GTFO / Pod Saver tabs. There are posts on the forums that will explain how to set this up. Also, google will send you straight to some great and in depth info on the topic. |
Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for the tips everyone. Perhaps next time I won't get caught in the moment and freeze for a few seconds, losing the chance to slip away. You can't teach nerves and reflexes :P
o/ |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
840
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 18:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's not altogether likely that your overview is currently set up to show some players but not others (I don't believe any of the default overview settings do that). However, it's highly possible that they were showing drones and a lot of other clutter, so there was too much crap there to properly take in what was around.
Another small tip when jumping into a gatecamp - As long as you do not move or attempt to go anywhere, your ship will remain cloaked up to 60 seconds after entering system. You can use this time to look at what the camp consists of and figure out your best way to escape. I like to wait out most of this timer when I jump into a camp for two reasons.
1) If they go 30-40+ seconds without the expected target showing up on overview, they may think that no one came in at all and that the gate flash they saw was someone going the other direction. At the very least, their guard will probably be down, whereas if you move as soon as you jump into system they're going to be ready to lock you as soon as you show up.
2) If someone else jumps into the same camp, you can use them as a distraction. If I see someone else decloak in the camp, I wait a second or two then go myself. They'll be too preoccupied with him to notice me. |
Lufen V2-0-1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote: I like to wait out most of this timer when I jump into a camp for two reasons.
1) If they go 30-40+ seconds without the expected target showing up on overview, they may think that no one came in at all and that the gate flash they saw was someone going the other direction. At the very least, their guard will probably be down, whereas if you move as soon as you jump into system they're going to be ready to lock you as soon as you show up.
2) If someone else jumps into the same camp, you can use them as a distraction. If I see someone else decloak in the camp, I wait a second or two then go myself. They'll be too preoccupied with him to notice me.
I'll try not to panic next time. |
Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
I just got done trying to sneak into deep lowsec for the first time last night.
The first attempt, I warped into a system, looked clear, and warped to zero on the next gate. BOOM - dead.
Turns out, a guy was camping the gate smartbombing everything that warped in at zero. Alas, my poor Heron.
I took some lessons from this:
1. Don't warp to zero. Warp to 100 off the gate instead and have a look at what's there - then hit D scan to have a broader look at the area.
2. Don't warp from gate to gate. Warp to 100 off the sun or some other planet and THEN warp to 100 off your target gate from there. This brings you in at a (hopefully) unexpected angle and may avoid the warp bubbles people like to drop on the popular approach lines. Once the gate looks clear, warp back to the sun, and then warp to zero on the gate. Do the same for approaching stations.
3. Watch local like a hawk. If more than one person jumped into the system, I got in the habit of screaming like a little girl and warping to the first random celestial that struck my fancy (100 off the celestial, of course). Then I'd sit tight (D-scanning to make sure there weren't any probes in the water) until the big mean people went away.
4. After warping through a gate, I'd take advantage of the auto-cloak to D-scan and check out local. Then pick some weird location to warp to and make my approach that way.
5. Use the star map. That part called "statistics" - use it to check how many pilots are online in each system, then check how many ships were killed in each target system in the last 24 hours, then check the same for the last hour. Check pod kills too. This can alert you to systems where there's a gate camp ambushing people. The jumps into system option is useful too. Occasionally I'd safe up in a space station during my journey and study the map some more to figure this stuff out.
6. Wish I could afford a cloaking device.
7. I'm a sucky noob, and I'm probably going to die, and someone else probably has better advice.
But that's what I learned on my little trip anyway. |
Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Oh wait... I think someone once told me warp bubbles aren't used in lowsec.... |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
533
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Correct. Warp bubbles can only be anchored in nullsec (and WH space) |
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Woeful Animation
Turalyon Plus
31
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Posted - 2013.08.07 20:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dude: You make it sound like there are monsters under your bed.
First relax: It's just low-sec. Thousands of people jump across thousands of systems without incident.
Second: Learn the terrain. Some places are infamous for gatecampery. Stacmon to Ostingale. Tama and Old Man Star to name a couple. Plan your routes accordingly. Put the system on avoid.
Third: Watch for neutrals on the front side of the gate. Most gate camps have a spy. That spy will have eyes on the gate and he should show up in your overview. If it feels like camp. It probably is. Hit control space bar and find another route.
Fourth: Ship kills in the last hour is your friend. If the area is new, let this be your guide.
Finally: Gate Camps are a fact of life. This is eve. Space ships don't wear out, they die, its good for the economy. Dead space ships need those decryptors that you're attempting to farm while exploring. Be cautious, but be bold. Find another way.
And for god sakes buy a cloak man. MWD -- cloak trick works. Learn it so the monsters under your bed won't get you. |
Riel Saigo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Woeful Animation wrote:Dude: You make it sound like there are monsters under your bed.
Well... yeah...
Aren't there? |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 21:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:When I was using a Heron for exploration and came across a gate camp, I would sit cloaked, find the closest object that I could align to, and warp there first before moving to a safe/gate. I don't think I was ever caught that way.
I wanted to mention the bolded part.
When your speed is 0 (zero - IE, you aren't moving, AT ALL), then you have no alignment. Remember, Eve Online treats your ship like a featureless sphere. It doesn't know which is front, side, down, etc. This means, when you have 0 speed, your align time in ANY direction is identical regardless of the direction your ship appears to be facing.
You will accelerate and warp to something "in front of you" in the exact same amount of time as you would to something "behind you". "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Kakuzo Noud
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Good tips in this thread.
Just wanted to add that as a new player, if you're flying a frigate that is not super-tanked (Punisher), a single nano-frame will lower your time-to-warp enough that you will practically never get caught warping from a gate.
Go to destroyers and up, and your warp time will be much lower, making you an easier target for gate camps. |
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