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Phoenyx redbaron
Wolf Escence
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 21:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am an armor tanker with all armor compensation skills currently at lvl4, which would be best suited for me DCU or EANM for PVE |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1547
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Posted - 2013.08.07 21:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
A perfect answer to such a general question would be "it depends" |
Rhys Thoth
Endland
21
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
It depends is the correct answer.
In general for armor tanking PVE:
- An EANM is better than a DC in isolation - Armor resists from rigs, hardeners and membranes are stacking penalized, DC bonuses are not. At some point the DC bonuses will be numerically better than the EANM bonuses; however, if you're fit properly, you will probably not reach that point. - DC give huge bonuses to structure resists, giving you much more 'oh crap' time if your tank breaks hard; however, this should never happen if you are comfortable with your ship, the mission and are paying attention.
The general advice I give to new aspiring missioners, when I do such things, is to start out with a DC for safety and a bit of added tank, and once you're comfortable with your ship's capabilities and the missions you're running swap it out for a damage mod. I don't always undock, but when I do... no wait, I acutally never undock. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1433
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rhys Thoth wrote:- Armor resists from rigs, hardeners and membranes are stacking penalized, DC bonuses are not.
Correct to a point. EANMs and the rest are in one stack, while DCs and RAHs are in another and are thus penalized against one another. So an additional consideration would be that if you're fitting a RAH you're most likely better off with an EANM over a DC.
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Jacumbo Ren
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would be taking a DCU no matter what I am fitting.
DCU II 12.5% to Shield Resists 15% to Armour Resists 60% to Structure Resists
Reactive Armour Hardener 15% resists across the board, changing depending on Incoming damage type.
I would be making use of a DCU, and then using specific armour hardeners, depending on the NPC's im facing. Never underestimate how useful having the resists on you structure can be when things turn bad. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
324
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
I usually run 2x IN EANM and 1 DC II. a third IN EANM would give better resists, but the difference is pretty small (357 vs 352 ehp/sec tank) at that point, might as well get the bonus hull EHP. that said I'd probably consider a reactive hardener now. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Jacumbo Ren
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 03:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why..... |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
222
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jacumbo Ren wrote:It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why.....
Because when you blitz, dock time becomes a larger proportion of your missioning time, and you may seek to minimise it and minimise possible fitting mistakes (because you are refitting more often).
You also might be missioning for another character and thus want to do 2 missions (your triggered one and its triggered one) between docks.
You might have deadspace as well as t2 items in your fit box, and dc vs b-type eanm, and reactive vs b-type hardeners are different calculations.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1433
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jacumbo Ren wrote:It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why.....
Because if you can, why not? Swapping hardeners isn't that time-consuming but if you're ok not doing it, why do it?
(Note: this advice is strictly for people who know what they're doing. If you're new to missions, please fit a mission-specific tank. Once you get used to your ship you can start to consider whether omni tanking is for you or not.) |
Jacumbo Ren
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 04:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Jacumbo Ren wrote:It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why..... Because when you blitz, dock time becomes a larger proportion of your missioning time, and you may seek to minimise it and minimise possible fitting mistakes (because you are refitting more often). You also might be missioning for another character and thus want to do 2 missions (your triggered one and its triggered one) between docks. You might have deadspace as well as t2 items in your fit box, and dc vs b-type eanm, and reactive vs b-type hardeners are different calculations.
How big a variance in rat types for missions is there, if you are ratting in a particular region? |
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1433
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Posted - 2013.08.08 05:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jacumbo Ren wrote:How big a variance in rat types for missions is there, if you are ratting in a particular region?
At the very least you'll get two pirate types plus rogue drones and mercs. So in Gal/Minnie space you'll at least see Angels, Serpentis, drones, and mercs. In Amarr/Caldari space you'll at least see either BR or Sansha or both plus Guristas, drones, and mercs. AE comes up in all space. Cargo Delivery always runs against type. Anti-empire missions also run against type with regard to the damage you need to inflict/tank. |
Jacumbo Ren
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 05:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Jacumbo Ren wrote:How big a variance in rat types for missions is there, if you are ratting in a particular region? At the very least you'll get two pirate types plus rogue drones and mercs. So in Gal/Minnie space you'll at least see Angels, Serpentis, drones, and mercs. In Amarr/Caldari space you'll at least see either BR or Sansha or both plus Guristas, drones, and mercs. AE comes up in all space. Cargo Delivery always runs against type. Anti-empire missions also run against type with regard to the damage you need to inflict/tank.
Fair Enough, makes null-sec seem so much easier. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
222
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Posted - 2013.08.08 06:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jacumbo Ren wrote: How big a variance in rat types for missions is there, if you are ratting in a particular region?
blitzers do 6 - 10 missions per hour, so they see more rat types in an hour or in a session. Some guy in a drake with 300 dps will do 1 angel extrav for 2 hours and then log after he cleans up what wrecks hasn't despawned with a noctis.
Also with better dps, you don't allow npcs to ever reach optimal, and you also kill the peak dps faster, so you need less tank, and for an armor tanker you are always trying to reduce the number of resist modules as they are traded off directly against damage modules, and more dps = more isk/hr.
By using 2 aux nanos I can do missions with only 2 resists, and for 2 resists, the stacking penalty disadvantage to a pair of eanms is not significant. Though I do typically fly with 2 hardeners. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
741
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Posted - 2013.08.08 06:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Because Tornado gankers thats why.
Always DCU. Yeah yeah you should never get into structure...
From NPCs.
Second, it helps your shield, so even if it only gets you a couple more seconds tank, its a couple more seconds tank. Eve is Real |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
222
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Posted - 2013.08.08 07:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Because Tornado gankers thats why. Always DCU. Yeah yeah you should never get into structure... From NPCs. Second, it helps your shield, so even if it only gets you a couple more seconds tank, its a couple more seconds tank. Quote:Also with better dps, you don't allow npcs to ever reach optimal, and you also kill the peak dps faster, so you need less tank, and for an armor tanker you are always trying to reduce the number of resist modules as they are traded off directly against damage modules, and more dps = more isk/hr. And this is where most mission runners fail. The lower the mission completion time the higher the actual DPS, not the number EFT and Eve spit out.
I fly a dominix most of the time, I can assure you I'm not confused by the value of applied dps ;) |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
741
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Posted - 2013.08.08 08:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Because Tornado gankers thats why. Always DCU. Yeah yeah you should never get into structure... From NPCs. Second, it helps your shield, so even if it only gets you a couple more seconds tank, its a couple more seconds tank. Quote:Also with better dps, you don't allow npcs to ever reach optimal, and you also kill the peak dps faster, so you need less tank, and for an armor tanker you are always trying to reduce the number of resist modules as they are traded off directly against damage modules, and more dps = more isk/hr. And this is where most mission runners fail. The lower the mission completion time the higher the actual DPS, not the number EFT and Eve spit out. I fly a dominix most of the time, I can assure you I'm not confused by the value of applied dps ;)
Lol, I didn't mean you. Eve is Real |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
223
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Posted - 2013.08.08 09:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: Lol, I didn't mean you.
haha fair 'nuff
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zatazon
Carebear Ore Industries Holdings Inc.
38
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm sure OP already has figured out an answer, but if you ever have a spare low that you arent sure what to put there or if you are looking at a 3rd ENAM go with the DCII. while it may seem silly but that little bit of res in your shields might be 1 or 2 more hits they absorb or more. Also if you ever have one of those moments, having that structure res could very well save your ship.
Jacumbo Ren wrote:It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why.....
Omni is the way for lazy people... like me. Why waste time swapping hardeners when I can fit an Omni tank and just go shoot stuff. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
917
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you're fitting a mission ship and you're looking at an empty low slot when you don't have 4 damage mods already, then you know what should go there. Tank goes in your high slots.
1 Large repper and 2 resist mods is enough, everything else should be gank. |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Reactive Armor hardener will give you exactly the percentage and type of damage you receive from every kind of npc.
Fit one for some missions, the easy ones are ideal for this, and check the way the module adapts to the incoming damage you are receiving, that will allow you learn more about this topic. |
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
746
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
DCU just save my RS and thought of this thread immediately. Verizon just took a big **** on me during a mission. Came back smoking but alive. Even though its a ST, the point is it can save your ass. Eve is Real |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.08.09 18:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
DCU saved my ship a couple of times before, when I was new misioning, perfect ass savior for everyone |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
325
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Posted - 2013.08.10 04:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jacumbo Ren wrote:It seems people are running Omni tanks to run missions, when they should be running Tanks specific to the NPC Rats you are facing. Wonder why.....
1. I'm lazy, although a shield fit can omnitank with just 2 slots 2. I tried on the test server and successfully solo suicide ganked a kronos with no exp resists. A paladin will have under 25k ehp vs kinetic. a pair of ravens warp in on you and bye bye ship. 3. if i want the 4 damage mods I'll just fly my nightmare. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
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